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  #81  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 1:56 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
Meanwhile, DC and Baltimore are closer (38 miles), connected by Acela and many more highways.
They're also connected by MARC.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:08 PM
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DMV = DC-Maryland-Virginia

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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
It's called the "DMV". That name has been around for decades.
Yeah I am surprised to see that many haven't heard of this, as it's been known as that for quite a while now.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
DMV = DC-Maryland-Virginia


Yeah I am surprised to see that many haven't heard of this, as it's been known as that for quite a while now.
I have the feeling that it's a very local colloquial term. I've never heard the term "DMV" used to refer to the DC area, even from northeastern US transplants to LA.

But hey, I like learning new things.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:19 PM
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I've lived in the DC area in short stints, and never heard the term. It was always DC.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I've lived in the DC area in short stints, and never heard the term. It was always DC.
"DMV" has been around for a while. I've known about it since the 90s. It's not as widely used as the Bay Area or Chicagoland, especially outside of the region, but I'd be shocked if there's a DC or Baltimore area native that has not heard that term before.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:28 PM
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I've always understood "DMV" to stand for DC and it's Maryland and Virginia suburbs. I've never know my friends or family from Baltimore to refer to themselves as being from the DMV.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
I have the feeling that it's a very local colloquial term. I've never heard the term "DMV" used to refer to the DC area, even from northeastern US transplants to LA.

But hey, I like learning new things.
Seems like it’s extremely local. Certainly not on national broadcasts of Ravens or Commanders (Redskins) games. I’ve never heard it aside from here.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by westak View Post
I've always understood "DMV" to stand for DC and it's Maryland and Virginia suburbs. I've never know my friends or family from Baltimore to refer to themselves as being from the DMV.
I've seen it reference Baltimore, especially in the past decade, but yes, the term originated to be more D.C. focused than Baltimore.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
The point is that a train that averages 1 trip every 2 hours is not reliable for regular commuting.
People in Los Angeles drive.

To me it’s pretty obvious everything inside Los Angeles County is Los Angeles. Those communities beyond the mountains only exist because there are 15-16 million people living in a continuous urbanized area on the other side. They are classical suburban sprawl.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Rhode Island and New Hampshire have a DMVs - but it's the Division of Motor Vehicles, not Department, for both.

And sorry to get nit-picky, but Boston and Providence are actually only 29 miles apart, as the crow flies. They're closer than people who haven't lived in the area think, both physically and culturally. There's just no line you can really draw where the metros actually border. Certainly not the official MSA border between Norfolk and Bristol counties in Mass.
The state line, no?

i.e. if you’re on the MA side, you’re in Boston’s orbit; if you’re on the RI side, Providence’s.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 4:43 PM
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We will have to wait and see how the Census reclassifies their classifications.
I wouldn't be surprised if they really fiddle with UAs and CSAs and change core counties, as there are clear issues with the Bay area and NYC using the current definitions for these.
So it wouldn't be so much the changes in population, but the changes in methodology.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
People in Los Angeles drive.

To me it’s pretty obvious everything inside Los Angeles County is Los Angeles. Those communities beyond the mountains only exist because there are 15-16 million people living in a continuous urbanized area on the other side. They are classical suburban sprawl.
But using that frequency to make a point about a place being a suburb of a central city... does not make the point. It is not commuter rail frequent. It is the frequency of train service between two independent places located somewhat close together.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 6:01 PM
TempleGuy1000 TempleGuy1000 is offline
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CSA is one of the most meaningless terms in the US urbanist lexicon. DC people often bring it up to show "how big of a city/region" DC is. Then you bring up the fact that doing so makes the murder rate of the region soar, and they quickly distance themselves by saying "oh well that's a different city!" lol... I'm just joking around, but I really don't see much value in the CSA measurement. I get the bay area forumers probably feel different due to their multinodal region, but DC/Baltimore != SF/SJ/Oakland

For the DC metro, I like the phrase 'Capital Region'
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  #94  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
The point is that a train that averages 1 trip every 2 hours is not reliable for regular commuting.
That is not how it works. Metrolink does not run overnight, and a brief glance at its schedule shows that during service hours, the average is much closer to a train an hour in each direction. There are longer waits at midday, because of reduced demand, and shorter waits at rush hours to meet increased demand. It's commuter rail, not metro rail, and it's not gold-standard commuter rail at that, for many reasons. But considering Lancaster and Palmdale constitute the northern edge of the metropolitan area, it's adequate when considering the fact that most workers commute by car--this being Southern California--and a high proportion of them drive to job centers in the Valley and other LA areas.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
But using that frequency to make a point about a place being a suburb of a central city... does not make the point. It is not commuter rail frequent. It is the frequency of train service between two independent places located somewhat close together.
In response to some guy half a continent away arbitrarily deciding that Lancaster and Palmdale shouldn't be included in the Los Angeles-Long Beach CSA anymore, I made three points to the contrary. First, I provided average traffic counts showing a very high proportion of Lancaster/Palmdale workers commute by car into the rest of the metropolitan area; second, I noted there are 12 one-seat commuter rail runs in each direction between Lancaster/Palmdale and Los Angeles Union Station; and third, cargo is moved by train and truck all day and night between the port complex and the distribution centers in Lancaster/Palmdale. These are all verifiable connections supporting the conclusion that the US Office of Management and Budget has already made--that it's all one CSA. My point was not to brag about commuter rail frequency, or to compare that particular line with the outlier frequencies of mainline commuter rail service into and out of Manhattan.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2022, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
I agree, although as already mentioned, the 'M' colloquially doesn't really encompass any of the Baltimore area. The "DMV Region" also sounds kind of stupid if it's going to enter everyday parlance like "Delaware Valley" or "Bay Area," but then again so is "The Metroplex" (which doesn't speak to anything specific to DFW). I rarely hear or refer to the DFW area as such. Even without the hyphen, you can use "DFW" to refer to Dallas-Forth Worth and people will know what you're talking about (helps that that's also the IATA code).

The other decent options that I can think of are too Washington-specific (and therefore do a disservice to Baltimore):

Greater Washington
Capital Region
Beltway Region (but "DMV" is already a more expansive version of this)

I like something that incorporates "Chesapeake" because it has a very Mid-Atlantic connotation exclusive to MD and VA, with the Bay itself extending farther north than Baltimore and relatively close to the PA/DE borders. The problem with that name however is that it also suits the Virginia Beach metro area, if not more so than Washington (and certainly Baltimore). DC is also not situated along the Chesapeake.



And therein lies why it's difficult to think of the two as constituting a singular and unified entity.
I wonder if Ft. Worth ever becomes bigger than Dallas will the metro be worded as Ft. Worth-Dallas?
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  #97  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2022, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dariusb View Post
I wonder if Ft. Worth ever becomes bigger than Dallas will the metro be worded as Ft. Worth-Dallas?
Highly doubtful. Even if it surpasses Dallas in population, Dallas would still have the name recognition. Just like how San Jose has surpassed SF in population but SF is still the de facto boss of the Bay Area.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2022, 4:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^^ my point was that if the Washington/Baltimore region is ever gonna come to be seen as more of a singular entity, it will need a singular name like "Metroplex" or "Bay Area".

If its name remains hyphenated, then that will always keep the separateness of its two main nodes front and center.
"The Swamp"
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  #99  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2022, 3:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
The state line, no?

i.e. if you’re on the MA side, you’re in Boston’s orbit; if you’re on the RI side, Providence’s.
No way. Not close to accurate.

Fall River, New Bedford, Attleboro, North Attleboro, Taunton . . . most of Bristol County MA, especially the old whaling coast / Buzzards Bay, is Providence/Newport-focused. So, about half a million people. Southern areas of Norfolk County, MA are also more RI-oriented. All the towns on the border, plus a few more in. The Providence MSA includes all of Bristol County, MA btw. Which is why I bring this up in the first place. Bristol County's northern point is less than 10 miles south of Boston's city limits as the crow flies.

You can hear it in the accents, if you know the subtle RI-MA differences. The Rhode Island accent is a bit more forward in the oral posture than the Masshole accent, so "coffee" sounds closer to the New York pronunciation than the Boston one: "CAW-fee" vs "COFF-ee". Order from a Dunkin in Attleboro or Mansfield and you'll hear "CAW-fee".

Maybe it's just wherever you stop/start seeing Portuguese bakeries.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2022, 3:24 AM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
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Originally Posted by Dariusb View Post
I wonder if Ft. Worth ever becomes bigger than Dallas will the metro be worded as Ft. Worth-Dallas?
I mean, it’s highly likely actually because Fort Worth annexed a LOT of land while Dallas is built out and they are only like 300,000 people apart at this point.

Another odd case is Salt Lake City is very small in city population with 199,000 people. Theoretically any of its suburbs like West Valley City could run away with the top spot in the metro area and goof up the naming convention.
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