Winnipeg Ice

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I can't really imagine that ever being viable with costs in USD.

Hopefully if people want a fix of junior hockey they support the MJHL. Winnipeg has been a deadzone for the league going on 30 years since the St Boniface Saints had a bit of a run.

I think the MJHL product is underrated... it might not have the marquee names of the WHL but it's still enjoyable grassroots junior hockey to watch. I suppose I'll be going to more Jets and Moose games this season, but I'm sure there will be a few MJHL and also Bisons games on my agenda.

For those unfamiliar with Canada West hockey, most of the players have extensive junior (WHL or Junior A) experience, a small handful even have pro experience. So it's pretty high level hockey. I went to a few Bison games (men's and women's) during the pandemic when the WHL was paused and attendance was restricted at pro games... it was good stuff. I'll be back at Wayne Fleming Arena this season for sure.

[wags_in_the_peg]

USHL is vastly different than MJ, it's very very fast hockey with every team have almost all their players committed to D1 college in the coming 1-2 years. I know this first hand as we were at the USHL combine in Chicago in April and this past weekend in MN at a team main camp. Besides the physicalness, in my opinion it's faster hockey than WHL.

BCHL pulling out of Hockey Canada and the NAHL "buying" them is really proving to be interesting. The Junior hockey landscape in Canada is really going to be changing in coming years. I agree many of the points that the BCHL was making as it's silly that WHL can take and relocate a kid from anywhere in West Can, however Junior A teams must stay within their province. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out though!

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

USHL is vastly different than MJ, it's very very fast hockey with every team have almost all their players committed to D1 college in the coming 1-2 years. I know this first hand as we were at the USHL combine in Chicago in April and this past weekend in MN at a team main camp. Besides the physicalness, in my opinion it's faster hockey than WHL.

BCHL pulling out of Hockey Canada and the NAHL "buying" them is really proving to be interesting. The Junior hockey landscape in Canada is really going to be changing in coming years. I agree many of the points that the BCHL was making as it's silly that WHL can take and relocate a kid from anywhere in West Can, however Junior A teams must stay within their province. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out though!

To be clear, the CJHL provincial restriction is on players before their high school class graduates.

We've billeted many MJ players since we moved out of Winnipeg. There's no comparison to what the WHL provides it's players in terms of support staff in any of the provincial leagues, even the BCHL from the players we've known that have come out of there.

I don't see the BCHL being able to last as a "rogue" league very long, unless they come up with transfer agreements with different leagues on the continent. The individual teams will get reputations very quickly as to who actually fulfills their promises to the players and who is just burying guys. Very risky for players as they cannot simply go back to their CJHL teams if it doesn't work out for them. Lots of guys will lose important seasons as they chase scholarships.

The hockey thing is always sad to me because these guys build their life around it 365 days a year and even in terms of playing a high level of junior or college hockey very few get there. I coach football and the amount of guys who make it to junior or U Sports/NCAA even from a relatively small football community in Manitoba is quite high relative to overall participation. But a lot of great athletes are so stuck on hockey that they miss out.

[esquire]

^ How do you guys see the MJHL faring in this new junior hockey landscape? Will the BCHL's move have any noticeable impact locally?

I don't see a ton of downside here for the BCHL. What are they giving up, really? The chance to compete for the RBC Cup? They have a lot of people so they can stock their rosters with BC players and now have an opportunity to get some good out of province players to add to that.

Also, interesting comments re hockey compared to football and other sports Danny D Oh. One thing I've noticed is that the love of hockey runs deep and kids want to keep playing, even if they could theoretically advance farther in other less popular sports.

[wags_in_the_peg]

^ agreed all good points. I think the BCHL / NAHL will somehow play out, TBD. for BCHL, the expanded roster size and no ability to AP players will definitely have some kids very frustrated not dressing or playing extremely limited minutes.

Focus on grades or getting into a trade need to be primary focus for these young kids, not thinking they going to make $ playing hockey.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ How do you guys see the MJHL faring in this new junior hockey landscape? Will the BCHL's move have any noticeable impact locally?

The MJHL will lose a lot of higher end guys who are thinking NCAA. But guys who have already played WHL or are hoping to won't really have the BCHL as an option. So there will be players displaced that way that need homes.

I think there will be few 17-18 year olds heading west. So far the guys leaving for next season are 19, in their last two years of junior eligibility. I'm not sure the BCHL teams want 16-17 year olds really, unless they are like a Bedard type talent who is not playing CHL and is planning to go NCAA.

On the whole I think you might see a divide in the MJHL, SJHL, AJHL where top players are overagers and 17 year olds...it's always kind of been like that but it might drive deeper with the vets who are legit NCAA prospects heading to BC.

In terms of where the MJHL is...

AJHL
SJHL
The Ontario leagues around Ottawa and GTA
MJHL
Quebec
SIJHL (the NW Ontario league)
Maritime League

I'm not sure the BC stuff changes that much, but I'd bet guys from BC displaced will want to stay as close to home as possible so it might benefit the AJHL. In a given year any team in those top 6 leagues loaded for bear can win the RBC, but the Alberta, Sask and Central teams are always in there.

[wags_in_the_peg]

your league assessment is pretty accurate except MJ is higher than many of those Ontario leagues and this past year Centennial Cup proved that.

there a few 17 yr old MB boys that will be playing in BCHL as well this year, ot at least they were going out there prior to the recent pull out of HC. Parents need a BC address so parent typically rent an apartment and temporary move out there.

BCHL & AJHL typically have 130-160 NCAA D1 commitments a year, MJHL has 4-8 plus maybe a dozen D3

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

BCHL & AJHL typically have 130-160 NCAA D1 commitments a year, MJHL has 4-8 plus maybe a dozen D3

WOW that really puts things in perspective. So the BCHL and AJHL effectively function as a pipeline for Canadian players to the NCAA. No wonder the BCHL saw this opportunity to ramp up recruitment and ran with it. Depending on how things work out for the BCHL, the AJHL could be not too far behind in becoming a "super junior A" league of sorts.

I guess you could see a bit of a fork in the road up ahead with the powerhouse junior A leagues that feed into the NCAA going one way, and then everybody else going another.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

your league assessment is pretty accurate except MJ is higher than many of those Ontario leagues and this past year Centennial Cup proved that.

It's a bit of an atypical Centennial Cup though for the MJHL when they are hosting. The Terriers loaded up for 2 seasons to make this run. Now they'll eat shit for 2-3 years because they dealt away a lot to get the best overagers they could. The MJHL team usually isn't that strong, more like how Steinbach was this year 1 win, 3 losses including 1 in OT.

[Dalreg]

Mods, close this thread or rename it maybe?

[esquire]

^ The ICE story has reached an end, probably makes sense to close it.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Rename it "Jr Hockey in MB" I can talk for hours on this subject!

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

It's a bit of an atypical Centennial Cup though for the MJHL when they are hosting. The Terriers loaded up for 2 seasons to make this run. Now they'll eat shit for 2-3 years because they dealt away a lot to get the best overagers they could. The MJHL team usually isn't that strong, more like how Steinbach was this year 1 win, 3 losses including 1 in OT.

The players I know on Pistons were truly just burnt, it was a long season, long playoff MJ championship. Portage had some rest and their 4 injured players were recovering before Centennial Cup. (My nephew was on Portage, BTW). Both those teams will have reputation as being 1st class organization and they will re-tool quickly w out of province kids.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

Rename it "Jr Hockey in MB" I can talk for hours on this subject!

Ha, it is a fascinating subject.

Being skyscraperpage, I have to bring it back to buildings... are there any other MJHL arena projects planned besides Steinbach?

Once the Steinbach rink is built, the MJHL teams will fall into the following tiers:

Elite:
Steinbach (we'll see what $60 million gets you)
Portage (the creme de la creme, but will Steinbach steal the crown?)
Dauphin (right up there running neck and neck with Portage)
Virden (a bit on the small side but well appointed)
Selkirk (it was amazing for its time and the best building for quite a few years... but does it still belong here?)

It'll do:
Waywayseecappo (never been to this one but from the TV and pictures I've seen it looks suitable for the team and community's needs)
Niverville (nice but small and not really designed with MJHL in mind)
OCN (never been to this one but it looks adequate on TV and in pictures)
Winnipeg Blues
Winnipeg Freeze (both Wpg teams are at the Iceplex which is nice but again, not designed with MJHL in mind and zero signs of the teams' presence)


Bad:
Neepawa (ramshackle)
Swan Valley (tiny)
Winkler (small and embarrassing for a growing and prosperous town)

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

The players I know on Pistons were truly just burnt, it was a long season, long playoff MJ championship. Portage had some rest and their 4 injured players were recovering before Centennial Cup. (My nephew was on Portage, BTW). Both those teams will have reputation as being 1st class organization and they will re-tool quickly w out of province kids.

If the MJHL is not a dependable route to the NCAA like the BCHL and AJHL, what's in it for these out of province kids to come and play in Manitoba?

Also, if teams like Portage and Steinbach have good reputations that attract elite out of province kids, what is the typical profile of a kid playing for the Winnipeg teams?

[wags_in_the_peg]

Dauphin & Portage both have aquatic facilities attached which make it a much more multiuse facility. Steinbach & Niverville both have gymnasiums which also add to its multiuse facility. Also, Niverville is adding an expansion already, adding around 375 seats. I beleive it will be bar tables with chairs type area.

[esquire]

^ I think Niverville's rink would have looked different had it been designed from the ground up as a MJHL rink. It's too bad, a bit of an opportunity lost there. I don't expect MJHL teams to play in pro-style or even WHL-style arenas, but it would be nice if they were at least a step up from local Billy Mosienko Arena or Maginot Arena type buildings. The Portage and Dauphin arenas are certainly not opulent, but they are nice.

[wags_in_the_peg]

some MB players go MJHL, then AJ or BC or in USA NAHL or USHL before college. lots of bouncing around in Jr hockey for most players.

There's lots opportunities to play post secondary, NCAA D1 is not the only route, it's actually the hardest route and very few do it. There's NCAA D3 where schooling is just as good and it typically way less $ to attend. It's just have the "prestige" of D1. theres also "ACHA D1,D2, D3" hockey clubs, again schooling can be just as good, as can hockey be, just not NCAA D1 "prestige". USports is really good hockey and you get schooled in Canada

If you want to become more knowledgeable about life beyond Jr A in western canada, here some links to review, constantly being updated as there's daily commitments happening. some of these players commitments are repetitive in previous years.

MJHL
https://www.mjhlhockey.ca/player-advancements

SJHL
https://www.sjhl.ca/commitments

AJHL
https://www.ajhl.ca/college-university-commitments

BCHL
https://bchl.ca/2022-23-college-commitments

[esquire]

^ Thank you for the information, I was aware of some of those options as some of my coworkers in the past had kids going the ACHA and USports routes.

I know with the WHL they trumpet the scholarships available for players who don't go pro... so someone can jump from their WHL team to university and get at least some of their expenses paid for, I assume tuition but I don't know how much else. And then if that player is inclined, they can continue playing hockey at a fairly high level in USports.

But how does it work with jr. A players? Do they get any similar arrangements if they are not going to the NCAA on an athletic scholarship? Or do they pay their own way even if playing USports hockey?

[wags_in_the_peg]

in other rec news (non- Junior Hockey), St. Pierre annonced a $25 million plan for new complex. I use to practise in that rink as a child in the 1980's as Ice $ was way less than City ice. memories! old ice rink will be repurpose turfed fieldhouse. good for them!

https://steinbachonline.com/articles...reation-centre

[esquire]

^ Nice... repurposing the old rink to a fieldhouse is a good idea.