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  #3321  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
This thing is gorgeous. I can't stop looking at those pictures.
I know, I can't wait to get inside next week. It looks unbelievable.

I realize people are worked up about the price tag - and I understand that completely but I'll offer a different line of thinking about the price:

1. This memorializes the dead in one of the most horrific events in US history
2. This piece could live on for 500-1000 years to represent the event and the lives lost. (amortization of the cost)
3. There are also other implicit financial benefits - potential rise in tourism to see the site, rise in overall real estate value (also increasing tax base) - if you factor these over 500 years, I imagine the $ amount could be impressive.

Again, I get that 4 BIL is an unbelievable amount. But let's put things in perspective and just try to enjoy what is a landmark piece of architecture.
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  #3322  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Santiago Calatrava: The Frank Lloyd Wright of our era.

Read that how you may.
I'd read that as extremely high praise indeed.

But, I think Santiago is closer to today's Saarinen.
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  #3323  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 2:33 PM
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$4 Billion!

2 WTC Could have been built for that, with enough leftover for a $1 Billion station that should have been spectacular, with the right project management.

Oh Well, at least we saved all that Ribbon Cutting Ceremony money, what with the price of ribbons these days! 😂
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  #3324  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 6:45 PM
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People use to blame Unions for the exorbitant cost of infrastructure in the US. That could be true if compared with China, Latin American or middle eastern countries, but not for comparing with other first world countries. In no way workers in London are less expensive thatn in the US and France's Unions are no less powerful than in the US.

Also I don't think Nimbys have play an important part in this particular project located just in the hearth of Lower Manhattan. Nimbys tend to act more in residential areas and I don't think american nimbys are less demanding than europeans anyway.

For what I've read, it has more to do with an intrincated web of consultants over consultants and many specifications than many times are not really needed. Also maybe the degree of corruption is also higher in the US than in Europe.



Once this is open, there will be hundreds of people, including hordes of tourists, taking pictures there, so, even if they like it or not, they won't have more choice than just let the people taking pictures.
I'm always harassed by various PA security staff , but next week i'll film it...so the whole world can see there mob like tactics...
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  #3325  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2016, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
I'm always harassed by various PA security staff , but next week i'll film it...so the whole world can see there mob like tactics...

LOL!!Are you the new Michael Moore or just a bit paranoid??
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  #3326  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2016, 4:24 PM
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Those pics don't do the critics justice…the structure itself is absolutely beautiful and intriguing. I'm sure it will serve its purpose well and will be enjoyed by many.
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  #3327  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2016, 12:48 AM
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LOL!!Are you the new Michael Moore or just a bit paranoid??
No , they threw a photo tog in Jail last year over taking pictures.... They do have rule bannning... Even though a Supreme court ruling back in 1960 ruled against them...

http://www.panynj.gov/path/rules-regs.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmIFreeToGo...graphy_policy/
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  #3328  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2016, 4:39 PM
jbermingham123 jbermingham123 is offline
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as much as people seem annoyed by this "monstrosity"... id be willing to bet that in 20 years, this will be a world-famous station and appear on all the NYC tourist brochures
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  #3329  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2016, 4:39 PM
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Also, let's not forget that part of why the costs were so high had nothing to do with the Port Authority. The city demanded that the 1 train line be reconnected first, and not distrubed during construction. The state demanded that the memorial plaza, above the PATH terminal be opened by the 10 year anniversary.

These two demands meant the station had to be built from the top down, temporary platforms and passageways covered by permanent plazas which then had to be rebuilt without disturbing the finished product above. That is where the majority of the costs were incurred.

Imagine building a house, by first building the master suite on the second floor. You literally build a floating box in the air, held up by temporary supports. Next you pour the foundations, add more temporary supports, and promptly build the full and complete roof. Then building out the rest of the second floor, starting with the attic and ceilings, and working your way down, until you link the new construction above to the foundations laid down below. Don't forget the fact that you bought a trailer home to live in while the construction was going on, and that trailer home was within the footprint of your new house, so you had to build around it until you had enough house to move in, while you then demolished the trailer and finished the space it occupied.

If that sounds absurd now you have a rough idea of what the engineers had to go through.
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  #3330  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2016, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jbermingham123 View Post
as much as people seem annoyed by this "monstrosity"... id be willing to bet that in 20 years, this will be a world-famous station and appear on all the NYC tourist brochures
5 years.

10 years from now no one will give a shiz how much it cost.
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  #3331  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2016, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
5 years.

10 years from now no one will give a shiz how much it cost.
Save for the people who are still waiting for a new PABT because the PA is 2 billion short.
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  #3332  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2016, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
I'm always harassed by various PA security staff , but next week i'll film it...so the whole world can see there mob like tactics...
You gotta learn the art of discreet. Yeah they are annoying with the no pics. Happened to me in the past. I just wait till they turn around and snap it. Its New York. Fuck them.

Half the time they are pretending to work anyways (The PA employees). They tend to hire single digit IQ folks anyways. Best time to do it is during the off hours. Rush hour they tend to stand near the entrance points.
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  #3333  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2016, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
You gotta learn the art of discreet. Yeah they are annoying with the no pics. Happened to me in the past. I just wait till they turn around and snap it. Its New York. Fuck them.

Half the time they are pretending to work anyways (The PA employees). They tend to hire single digit IQ folks anyways. Best time to do it is during the off hours. Rush hour they tend to stand near the entrance points.
I now use the flaws of the Station to hide myself from them...
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  #3334  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2016, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jbermingham123 View Post
as much as people seem annoyed by this "monstrosity"... id be willing to bet that in 20 years, this will be a world-famous station and appear on all the NYC tourist brochures
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
5 years.

10 years from now no one will give a shiz how much it cost.
These are completely true and valid statements. Regardless of cost and level of competence on the part of those backstage, this is a stunning and special gift to the city of New York.

I also think people are tremendously downplaying the amount of traffic this station will see. It is connected to nearly every subway line passing through Lower Manhattan in some way, shape or form. It directly serves and is right in the middle of two major office complexes, both the new Trade Center and Brookfield Place, not to mention all the other nearby office towers. It serves and is a part of what will be one of the largest concentrations of retail across all price points in the entire city, if not the nation. This is also now poised to become, as if it hasn't already, a tourism hub, with this station being a major access point for tourists to locations throughout the region.

Last and most importantly, the unbelievable growth of Jersey City in recent years (which is poised to continue) is going to dramatically increase traffic on the PATH system, as people continue to see Jersey City as an alternative to living in Manhattan. We could even see a PATH expansion on the boards within a decade or so, and at this point, the planners on such a future project will not need to be the slightest bit concerned with capacity issues at the Trade Center.

Lower Manhattan has never had a grandiose hub train station in its history, and this project has finally brought that into existence. It also prevents another Penn Station from plaguing the city, because this station can never be accused of being a subterranean warren with no visual appeal or welcoming attributes. It's a symbol of 21st-century New York, and you're right when you say that in the future, everyone will forget how much it cost and the speed bumps to its completion. It's not like any of you dwell day in and day out on how much Grand Central cost, or what competing and corrupt railroad interests led to one company trying to outdo the other with stations that were grander than the last. Now we just have a really beautiful train station and an icon of the city and the nation. Done.
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  #3335  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by NYC2ATX View Post
...
Lower Manhattan has never had a grandiose hub train station in its history, and this project has finally brought that into existence. It also prevents another Penn Station from plaguing the city, because this station can never be accused of being a subterranean warren with no visual appeal or welcoming attributes. It's a symbol of 21st-century New York, and you're right when you say that in the future, everyone will forget how much it cost and the speed bumps to its completion. It's not like any of you dwell day in and day out on how much Grand Central cost, or what competing and corrupt railroad interests led to one company trying to outdo the other with stations that were grander than the last. Now we just have a really beautiful train station and an icon of the city and the nation. Done.
I agree with your comments wholeheartedly. Just a quick support of you last comment. Imagine this in your mind (or if someone could post this building and the one I'm about to mention side-by-side).
Try to think of the most recognizable landmarks in and around NYC as a whole. Now try think of one that has not only stand the test of time, but also one that might have been ahead of it's time. And keeping with the transportation hub theme... Any ideas?
OK, place JFK's TWA terminal next to this transportation hub. Picture them side-by-side. Now add all the attributes you just mentioned. They are comparable in design, but more importantly, one has stand the test of time, and the Transit Hub definitely will as well.
This building isn't just a transportation hub, it's a statement; a re-incarnation of downtown Manhattan; a landmark that WILL stand the test of time long after we're gone. That make's it all worth while.
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  #3336  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 3:31 AM
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porcupine building . . dead dinosaur pile . .
we're all gonna love it eventually . .
I do like when they make the effort . . and spend the money . .
to build something great in America ! . .
especially something for the public.
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  #3337  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CCs77 View Post
In the meanwhile, some pictures via curbedNY (more in the article)







The interior looks so much better than the exterior. Thanks for the pics. Its beautiful.
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  #3338  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 4:23 PM
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When will the connection between it and Fulton street finally be opened?
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  #3339  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 6:55 PM
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When will the connection between it and Fulton street finally be opened?
There's no word on that. I'm not sure what the hold up is. The Dey St connector was finished years ago. They need to finish the work to open up the Cortlandt St N/R train station which in renders was basically open to the end of the occulus. Also, I'm curious to see what work has been done to reconnect the Chambers St E station. There was talk many months back when 2 WTC was still a hole in the ground, that a portion of the original PATH station (original original, as in predating the WTC station) was retained and may be reused.
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  #3340  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 6:57 PM
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This guy is def not a fan. A little harsh I think.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/ar....html?ref=arts
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