Low rise apartments vs high apartments in Canada and the US culture differences?

[nec209]

In the US there are lots of 2 to 6 story apartments that is very common in the US but you just don’t see in Canada.

And well likewise there are lot of mid and rise apartments build in the 50s, 60s and 70s in Canada. It also not uncommon to see high rise residential in Canada in small communities of only 50,000 people or 100,000 people and cities of only 200,000 people to have many high rise apartments and witch is also not uncommon to plonked down high rise residential in low density suburb away from the down town area or urban core areas. And lot of these high rise residential are next to mall, park or major street or highway.

Some one said the reason was public transit was one of the factors if it is low rise or high rise. Where if you are poor and low income in the US you are more likely to drive so they build more low rise apartments with set backs and parking lots. Where in Canada if you are poor and low income you more likely to take city bus so they opt for more high rise apartments. They go on to say high rise apartments can have better public transit than low rise apartments in different parts of the city. And because Canada is more culturally public transit than the US hey built more high rise apartments and now high rise condos boom going on.

[nec209]

Sorry this thread got posted in the wrong section it should have mean posted here https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=24

[JManc]

We had a lot more high rise apartments after WW2 for the poor and working class and they turned out to be sociological disasters because they were built away from most urban amenities and became magnets for crime. Most since have been demolished in favor of mixed income housing and/or Section 8.

[iheartthed]

Apartment buildings with parking lots or structures in the U.S. are usually built in jurisdictions with parking minimums.

[nec209]

Was it available farmland in Canada or public transit ridership that Canadian cities and suburbs grow much more dense than the US?

We are talking 50s and 60s. Where in 1961 Canada had 18,238,247 people. I believe some thing like only 20% of the land is available for farming in Canada where if I’m not mistaken the US has way more available farmland than Canada.

Did lot of cities have anti sprawl measures in place in the 50s and 60s because of available farmland in Canada is so little because of the Canadian Shield and tundra land making up 80% of the land in Canada?

Some one said Canada had a massive shortage of housing in Canada and this was one of the reason they built so many high rise apartment. What a massive shortage of housing in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? How did the US do it with out having massive housing shortage. The US had rust belt move and white flight move how did they do it with out a massive shortage of housing?

Why in the US is it more expensive to build high rise apartments but not Canada?

Was Canadian middle class weaker in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s unlike the US? Did not have the money to buy a house and to rent first. Did the US government make housing more available to people in the US than Canada.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by nec209

Was it available farmland in Canada or public transit ridership that Canadian cities and suburbs grow much more dense than the US?

We are talking 50s and 60s. Where in 1961 Canada had 18,238,247 people. I believe some thing like only 20% of the land is available for farming in Canada where if I’m not mistaken the US has way more available farmland than Canada.

Did lot of cities have anti sprawl measures in place in the 50s and 60s because of available farmland in Canada is so little because of the Canadian Shield and tundra land making up 80% of the land in Canada?

Some one said Canada had a massive shortage of housing in Canada and this was one of the reason they built so many high rise apartment. What a massive shortage of housing in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? How did the US do it with out having massive housing shortage. The US had rust belt move and white flight move how did they do it with out a massive shortage of housing?

Why in the US is it more expensive to build high rise apartments but not Canada?

Was Canadian middle class weaker in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s unlike the US? Did not have the money to buy a house and to rent first. Did the US government make housing more available to people in the US than Canada.

One thing that gets overlooked in the density discussions is that there was no concept of a condominium in the United States until the 1960s, and many states still don't have great governing laws around condos. New York City allowed cooperatives prior to the 1960s, which allowed people to become property owners by buying shares of a company that owned the building where they lived, but I don't think this has ever been very common outside of NYC. OTOH, the creation of the FHA to back low cost home mortgages gave lower density single family housing a 3 decade head start over the option of owning a condo unit in a multi-family building.

[Innsertnamehere]

Are you talking about the popularity of 5-over-1s in the US?

They aren't common in Canada because of building code differences, from my understanding. Canada instead relies on concrete building forming, which it has down to a science to the point where it's far cheaper than in the US from my understanding.

And when building concrete buildings, it's done by repeatable fly-forming. The cheapest way to build a concrete building is to build small floors that can be poured quickly and have the same fly-forms ready to do the next part. This lends itself to small floorplates with many floors. Some developers in Toronto can do a floor in 4 days - as I said, they have it down to a science. Rinse and repeat 50 times, and you have a 50-storey building built fairly affordably.

In the US, wood construction is more common as fire separation requirements are less from my understanding. Wood needs shorter building heights structurally, and a simpler, shorter form is cheaper, so you get the predominance of 5-8 storey apartment blocks with massive floor plates.


Condos didn't really exist in Canada until the 1960's either, FYI, and didn't become common in Ontario until the 1980's.

Canada was also much poorer than the US in the mid-century period - the US GDP per Capita was 50% higher than Canada in the 1960's, for example. Canada in generally has always been poorer than the US, with GDP lagging by various amounts through history. It eventually caught up with the US through the 1970's and 1980's, before falling far behind in the 1990's again, catching up in the 2000's, and is falling behind again today.

[BG918]

The powerful wood lobby in the U.S. influenced building codes favoring low-rise wood buildings. They are cheaper to build than concrete structures.

[nec209]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Are you talking about the popularity of 5-over-1s in the US?

They aren't common in Canada because of building code differences, from my understanding. Canada instead relies on concrete building forming, which it has down to a science to the point where it's far cheaper than in the US from my understanding.

And when building concrete buildings, it's done by repeatable fly-forming. The cheapest way to build a concrete building is to build small floors that can be poured quickly and have the same fly-forms ready to do the next part. This lends itself to small floorplates with many floors. Some developers in Toronto can do a floor in 4 days - as I said, they have it down to a science. Rinse and repeat 50 times, and you have a 50-storey building built fairly affordably.

In the US, wood construction is more common as fire separation requirements are less from my understanding. Wood needs shorter building heights structurally, and a simpler, shorter form is cheaper, so you get the predominance of 5-8 storey apartment blocks with massive floor plates.


Condos didn't really exist in Canada until the 1960's either, FYI, and didn't become common in Ontario until the 1980's.

Canada was also much poorer than the US in the mid-century period - the US GDP per Capita was 50% higher than Canada in the 1960's, for example. Canada in generally has always been poorer than the US, with GDP lagging by various amounts through history. It eventually caught up with the US through the 1970's and 1980's, before falling far behind in the 1990's again, catching up in the 2000's, and is falling behind again today.

In the US in the more urban areas it is more like this.
https://i.ibb.co/Fxf1chs/IMG-2666.jpg

Well in the more suburb areas it is more like this
https://i.ibb.co/4S0DjqL/IMG-2665.jpg

Well in Canada you don’t really see them building apartments like that in 1950 to 1980s.

I read some where that it is more expensive to build past the 6 floor so the US has lot in the 2 to 5 story in that range. As I believe any thing past the 6 floor has to be all concrete and so many concrete stairwells.

But some how it became more profitable in Canada some how to build high rise apartments no idea how that happen.

You said wood frame is not allowed in apartments in Canada only houses and townhomes? Well if that is the case it has to be all concrete and so many concrete stairwells the investors and developers probably build high rise because it is cheaper than at that point? In other words it cost too much money to build low rise apartment.

[bartolo]

Originally Posted by nec209

In the US in the more urban areas it is more like this.
https://i.ibb.co/Fxf1chs/IMG-2666.jpg

Well in the more suburb areas it is more like this
https://i.ibb.co/4S0DjqL/IMG-2665.jpg

Well in Canada you don’t really see them building apartments like that in 1950 to 1980s.

I read some where that it is more expensive to build past the 6 floor so the US has lot in the 2 to 5 story in that range. As I believe any thing past the 6 floor has to be all concrete and so many concrete stairwells.

But some how it became more profitable in Canada some how to build high rise apartments no idea how that happen.

You said wood frame is not allowed in apartments in Canada only houses and townhomes? Well if that is the case it has to be all concrete and so many concrete stairwells the investors and developers probably build high rise because it is cheaper than at that point? In other words it cost too much money to build low rise apartment.

Building code has changed at least in Ontario that you can build wood structures up to 6 storeys.

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/3...e-construction

https://files.ontario.ca/ontarios_ta..._reference.pdf

[nec209]

Originally Posted by bartolo

Building code has changed at least in Ontario that you can build wood structures up to 6 storeys.

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/3...e-construction

https://files.ontario.ca/ontarios_ta..._reference.pdf

Is that new? They did not have this in the 1950 to 1980s when they build lot of apartments in that time period.

[mhays]

The point about six stories being cheaper was really about wood. Whatever point wood is allowed to is generally cheaper. In my area woodframes can get to about 85' if the zoning allows. (The floor of the top level can go to 75', which is related to fire truck reach...any floor higher than that is subject to highrise code.) So we get a lot of 2 concrete + 6 wood buildings.

[bartolo]

Originally Posted by nec209

Is that new? They did not have this in the 1950 to 1980s when they build lot of apartments in that time period.

Yes it is relatively recent, 2014. You do see low-rise construction throughout Ontario though. Most of it constructed in the 1950's and 1960's. High-rise seemed to come into vogue through the 1960's and 1970's.

[pdxtex]

Wood is all fun and games until a fire breaks out. In Portland lots of these new wood apartment buildings are also poorly insulated so we had a few new buildings flood this winter after fire suppression system froze and their pipes burst.