Halifax Municipal Elections

[pblaauw]

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It should be noted that I wished our former participants well because they showed courage for standing for public office, and congratulations should be in order for their commitment to civic engagement. This does not necessarily mean I agree with the policies they stand for, and Keith is right to be concerned about the fiscal state of HRM.

As an outside observer, I will refrain from making further comment.

Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I'm not sure why you found it necessary to make this comment. JMHO, but it reminded my of a line in Blazing Saddles... "of course you'll have the good taste not to mention that I spoke to you"...

It seemed weird for you to be complimentary of those councillors, only to kind of take it back after KP posted his comments.

FWIW, I think we all should have concerns about the fiscal wellbeing of 'everywhere', due to the effects of the last several months, and the next months (or years) coming up...

[atbw]

In Canada, a lot of people’s grandfathers, mine included, were antifa. We have a whole day celebrating them, and lots of movies.


In all seriousness, I’m very happy to see that council is going to have a different perspective going forward. I also look forward to having Waye representing my district again, as much as Jen Powley would have been a good councillor. At the very least I feel like he is open to input from citizens and has changed his vote accordingly. A representative you can speak to and negotiate with instead of pulling a party line is something I appreciate about municipal politics.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by lirette

Never thought I'd see "ANTIFA" written anywhere on the Atlantic Provinces Skyscraper page. A record setting amount of fear mongering for one post.

I'm sure the good burghers of the cities I mentioned never thought they would see sections of their cities taken over by wannabe revolutionaries either.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by atbw

In Canada, a lot of people’s grandfathers, mine included, were antifa. We have a whole day celebrating them, and lots of movies.


In all seriousness, I’m very happy to see that council is going to have a different perspective going forward. I also look forward to having Waye representing my district again, as much as Jen Powley would have been a good councillor. At the very least I feel like he is open to input from citizens and has changed his vote accordingly. A representative you can speak to and negotiate with instead of pulling a party line is something I appreciate about municipal politics.

You confuse people fighting for freedom from a murderous, tyrannical regime with those wishing to overthrow our way of life.

As for Ms. Powley, while I admire anyone wishing to rid us of Mason on Council, she was sadly overmatched. She had no concept of how the city operates and had many strange ideas. But the worst thing was her reliance upon the Haivens and Peggy Cameron as her fundraisers and advisors, who she thanked in her post-election video yesterday. I was unaware of that connection until I saw that, and it explains some of the odd positions she put forward.

[PortaPetee]

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[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It seemed weird for you to be complimentary of those councillors, only to kind of take it back after KP posted his comments.

FWIW, I think we all should have concerns about the fiscal wellbeing of 'everywhere', due to the effects of the last several months, and the next months (or years) coming up...

I was complimenting their courage in seeking public office, especially in the face of potential negative feedback which can be souls sucking. I applaud anyone who takes this risk.

As I stated however, this does not mean I necessarily support their policies, but I welcome a healthy debate on the same.

HRM should become the best possible city given current fiscal realities, but fiscal realism should be paramount. In addition, cities are essentially "corporations", just as much as they are a third tier of government (cities are after all a creature of the province), and as such, social policy is often outside their realm of responsibility. This is best left to the province to look after. The city should be concerned primarily with service delivery (garbage pick-up, policing, fire protection), as well as governance regarding zoning and built form. It worries me to see activist councillors increasingly promoting social agendas which go beyond their job description. We have the same problems in Moncton. I really like our current mayor, but she supports an activist agenda which I occasionally have issues with. I intend to vote for her in the upcoming election however because she has not entirely forgotten that at least part of the job of a city is to promote a healthy business environment...…...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

HRM should become the best possible city given current fiscal realities, but fiscal realism should be paramount. In addition, cities are essentially "corporations", just as much as they are a third tier of government (cities are after all a creature of the province), and as such, social policy is often outside their realm of responsibility. This is best left to the province to look after. The city should be concerned primarily with service delivery (garbage pick-up, policing, fire protection), as well as governance regarding zoning and built form. It worries me to see activist councillors increasingly promoting social agendas which go beyond their job description. We have the same problems in Moncton. I really like our current mayor, but she supports an activist agenda which I occasionally have issues with. I intend to vote for her in the upcoming election however because she has not entirely forgotten that at least part of the job of a city is to promote a healthy business environment...…...

An excellent explanation. I feel much the same about HRM. However one hopes you will not now be excoriated for "trolling".

One hopes we do not see a local version of this in our future. https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ing-and-chaos/

[lirette]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

You confuse people fighting for freedom from a murderous, tyrannical regime with those wishing to overthrow our way of life.

As for Ms. Powley, while I admire anyone wishing to rid us of Mason on Council, she was sadly overmatched. She had no concept of how the city operates and had many strange ideas. But the worst thing was her reliance upon the Haivens and Peggy Cameron as her fundraisers and advisors, who she thanked in her post-election video yesterday. I was unaware of that connection until I saw that, and it explains some of the odd positions she put forward.

Our way of life? What exactly is our way of life and who are you speaking for? I'm sorry that you can't see how these kind of inflammatory statements differ from MonctonRads comments for example. What a city council is responsible for seems like a reasonable debate for this forum but fear mongering about antifa overthrowing Halifax is on a different level. The type of thing you get on facebook "newschasers"& other echo chamber pages.

There is so much context missing in the situations in those other cities you mention. Open demonstrations of white supremacy and violence have been frequent in places like Seattle and Portland. A president who speaks almost entirely in hate. A summer filled with highlight reels of police brutality across the country during protests on police brutality.

Often what is seen is these peaceful demonstrations go beyond curfew, police get the tear gas out and things escalate. An endless cycle. The news plays these few clips of violence and people think the country is burning down while peaceful demonstrations across the country are otherwise ignored.

What we've seen in Halifax is several peaceful demonstrations this summer and a statue removed 2 years ago to help heal relationships with the indigenous population. Is this really ruining your way of life?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by lirette

Our way of life? What exactly is our way of life and who are you speaking for? I'm sorry that you can't see how these kind of inflammatory statements differ from MonctonRads comments for example. What a city council is responsible for seems like a reasonable debate for this forum but fear mongering about antifa overthrowing Halifax is on a different level. The type of thing you get on facebook "newschasers"& other echo chamber pages.

There is so much context missing in the situations in those other cities you mention. Open demonstrations of white supremacy and violence have been frequent in places like Seattle and Portland. A president who speaks almost entirely in hate. A summer filled with highlight reels of police brutality across the country during protests on police brutality.

Often what is seen is these peaceful demonstrations go beyond curfew, police get the tear gas out and things escalate. An endless cycle. The news plays these few clips of violence and people think the country is burning down while peaceful demonstrations across the country are otherwise ignored.

What we've seen in Halifax is several peaceful demonstrations this summer and a statue removed 2 years ago to help heal relationships with the indigenous population. Is this really ruining your way of life?

I could debate the many false statements in your post but I do not wish to be accused of trolling again. "Peaceful demonstrations", indeed.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I could debate the many false statements in your post but I do not wish to be accused of trolling again. "Peaceful demonstrations", indeed.

What I expected to happen. Ignore my questions on what "our" way of life is and how your life has been ruined from 1 statue removal and a handful of peaceful protests in Halifax. The humanity!

My post did not say ALL demonstrations were peaceful but you decided that for yourself anyway. Take a step our of your echo chambers for one day and you will see that the MAJORITY of demonstrations are peaceful.

It is incredibly unfortunate that this type of us vs them discourse has seeped into this forum.

[Good Baklava]

Just sad. None of the councillors on this forum responded to the posts congratulating them, and we just witnessed how this poisonous atmosphere prevents meaningful dialogue with constituents.

We all have our biases, and we shouldn’t hide them. Mine are likely very different from yours, and no matter how neat being impartial sounds, I am simply not capable of being so. Call me pretentious if you will, but not taking a position is a political statement in itself. How a municipality administers its basic services can have social impacts, so saying a councillor is exempt from defining their position on social justice defeats much of an election’s purpose.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Just sad. None of the councillors on this forum responded to the posts congratulating them

To be fair, both of these former forum participants have been essentially absent from discussions on SSP since they won public office, and understandably so.

They are politicians now, and have to be very careful about social media posts. Those of us active on the forum are nothing more than armchair urban enthusiasts and our ponderings regarding the nature and form of our cities have no real world consequences. The same cannot be said for any off the cuff musings of Waye Mason or Sam Austin.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Just sad. None of the councillors on this forum responded to the posts congratulating them, and we just witnessed how this poisonous atmosphere prevents meaningful dialogue with constituents.

Elected officials gain nothing by taking part in the conversation that's occurred on the past two pages of this thread.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Elected officials gain nothing by taking part in the conversation that's occurred on the past two pages of this thread.

You can say that again.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Those of us active on the forum are nothing more than armchair urban enthusiasts and our ponderings regarding the nature and form of our cities have no real world consequences.

That’s generally true, especially in terms of real world change. Austin has been active on the forum recently though. However, I know there are professionals and students on this forum whose fields do intersect with the topics at hand.

[pchipman]

Glad to see that voter turnout seemed to be up this year. Though the numbers still look fairly dismal at ~40%...but maybe this is par for the course in municipal elections. Hopefully the trend continues as the importance (and fragility) of the right to vote is reinforced by global events.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I was complimenting their courage in seeking public office, especially in the face of potential negative feedback which can be souls sucking. I applaud anyone who takes this risk.

As I stated however, this does not mean I necessarily support their policies, but I welcome a healthy debate on the same.

I know where you were coming from, but just thought it a little bizarre to combine a congratulatory post with a disclaimer about your opinion on their policies. I debated whether to mention it at all, but it seemed a little out of step with your usual posting style (which tends to be logical and well thought out).

I don't find that I ever agree with all policies of all politicians, but concede that for a democratic society to work, I have to choose the one whose policies most line up with mine, or whose vision appears that it will move the city in the direction in which I would like to see it move. That's why I get my 1 vote, as an opportunity to have my views supported by our leaders.

If a candidate with whom I mostly disagree is voted in, I accept that more citizens agree with their policies than those who don't, and am glad that our political system continues to work even if I don't get exactly what I want. Sometimes this can give results better than you have envisioned, sometimes not. But we have to take the bad with the good and move on.

I also applaud all councillors for the work they put in, and especially those who choose to come to a forum like this to engage their ideas with us. I too don't always agree with them, and believe I have responded as such in the past, but have always had a respect for them just for putting it out there, and hope I have communicated that respect as such.

What really irks me is when some posters (or a poster) do not extend that kind of mutual respect to the individual and continues with what can only be construed as attacks on the person (or at least the work of the person) because they don't agree with their policies, or whatever. Then the councillor, who used their free time to come here and engage with us no longer feels like it is worthwhile to extend their insight to the readers of this forum, and we all lose out. The only one who benefits is the one poster who got to unload their frustration at the expense of everyone else. This just doesn't seem right, and has become a source of frustration for me on this forum.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

HRM should become the best possible city given current fiscal realities, but fiscal realism should be paramount. In addition, cities are essentially "corporations", just as much as they are a third tier of government (cities are after all a creature of the province), and as such, social policy is often outside their realm of responsibility. This is best left to the province to look after. The city should be concerned primarily with service delivery (garbage pick-up, policing, fire protection), as well as governance regarding zoning and built form. It worries me to see activist councillors increasingly promoting social agendas which go beyond their job description. We have the same problems in Moncton. I really like our current mayor, but she supports an activist agenda which I occasionally have issues with. I intend to vote for her in the upcoming election however because she has not entirely forgotten that at least part of the job of a city is to promote a healthy business environment...…...

I partially agree, but feel that municipal politicians have to be more than just people who look after service delivery, etc., otherwise we should just remove municipal political leadership altogether and let city staff run things based on a set of rules and regulations.

I feel that municipal politicians have to also be the voice of the people, and in a perfect world they will listen to the concerns and views of their constituents and reflect them in their work to steer the city in the appropriate direction. However, as we know this is a herculean task as no two people on the planet have exactly the same views on every topic - i.e. no matter what you do there will always be somebody, or groups of somebodies, who will disagree. To take everybody's views into consideration and choose only one direction surely must be the cause of many sleepless nights on the part of all city politicians, and I empathize.

What I am observing in the past several years is that we as a society are becoming less willing to accept, or respect, the views of those who don't agree with us and more willing to aggressively oppose them. I find it disturbing and become disappointed when I see it filtering down to this very forum.

Just my 2¢ (defaulted to 5¢ since we are in Canada)...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

What I am observing in the past several years is that we as a society are becoming less willing to accept, or respect, the views of those who don't agree with us and more willing to aggressively oppose them. I find it disturbing and become disappointed when I see it filtering down to this very forum.

I think so too and it is worrisome.

One example of activism from HRM that doesn't seem very good, as very "in your face" politics, is the BLM street art and bus signs (BLM is an actual organization with a manifesto with stated aims like moving society away from traditional family structures and dismantling capitalism). But I am not sure those things have much real impact on the bottom line. I don't think bike lanes do either and actually I think cycling infrastructure probably gets about what's due as far as its modal share goes.

The #1 issue for the city right now is probably housing affordability which will mostly come down to having adequate supply, which is tied to both approving enough and having zoned/serviced land.

[pchipman]

The role of activism in municipal politics is interesting. I appreciate MonctonRad's views but generally agree with OldDartmouthMark's perspective. I think there is room for some activism in municipal politics, especially as immigration and political representation grow hand-in-hand. I suppose the specifics of what is considered activism simply relate to the bodies being represented. Cycling infrastructure becomes less of an activist issue as more of the population adopts commuter cycling habits, for instance. Are voting rights considered activism? Probably not so much anymore, but likely were in the early 1900s.

The issue with BLM is tricky, and while I agree with the attempts to demonstrate solidarity with the black community I would like to see more concrete support via social programs and entrepreneurial grants than lip service via signage. Though the most immediate and recognizable show of support is likely via such signage, and I consider that important even though the specifics of the movement may include issues that do not necessarily align with the goals of local government. It's a tricky issue.

I do suspect that these issues contribute to the perception of the city as a livable option in general. Some cities develop 'personalities' (good or bad) that are recognized globally and contribute to recruitment.