Metro Vancouver Hotel & Short Term Rental Market Discussion

[SpongeG]

Thousands of listings pulled off Airbnb as Vancouver's new rules come into effect

Josh Dehaas, CTVNews.ca Writer @JoshDehaas
Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:07PM EDT

New regulations in Vancouver meant to cut down on the number of homes rented out to tourists on the website Airbnb appear to be working.

The city says the number of listings on Airbnb has fallen from 6,600 in April to 3,742 after the new rules came into effect on September 1.

The new rules stipulate that homeowners can only offer their primary residences for short-term rental on the site and they must have a $49-a-year licence to do so.

The goal is to return those non-primary residences to the long-term rental market, which has had very low vacancy rates in recent years, leading to eye-popping prices.

While it’s not yet clear that the new regulations are the reason, rental prices in Vancouver do appear to have stabilized. The median price of a one-bedroom in June 2017 was $2,090 a month, according to the website Padmapper. Fourteen months later, in August, the median price had fallen to $2,000.

That drop occurred while prices in many other Canadians cities continued to climb by double digits. The average cost of a one-bedroom in Toronto was up 15.7 per cent in August year-over-year, hitting $2,140. Montreal saw a 14.8 per cent increase over the same period, with the median price for a one bedroom in that city listed at $1,320.

...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/thousa...fect-1.4081831

[jlousa]

Good, This is a policy I think the city got right. Doesn't matter that they copied another city's policy, it's sound and makes sense for us. Puts the whole airbnb concept to where it was supposed to be originally, let home owners rent out their own space when they go on vacation and make it uneconomical to purchase property for the sake of setting up an airbnb.
The one issue I'd like to addressed once this policy has been proven in the long term to work is the province step in and eliminate strata rules preventing airbnb. My building like most prevents short term rentals, and that was sound policy when there was abuse, but so long as an owner follows the new requirements imposed by the city they should be allowed to rent their unit out when out on vacation and not be punished.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Good, This is a policy I think the city got right. Doesn't matter that they copied another city's policy, it's sound and makes sense for us. Puts the whole airbnb concept to where it was supposed to be originally, let home owners rent out their own space when they go on vacation and make it uneconomical to purchase property for the sake of setting up an airbnb.
The one issue I'd like to addressed once this policy has been proven in the long term to work is the province step in and eliminate strata rules preventing airbnb. My building like most prevents short term rentals, and that was sound policy when there was abuse, but so long as an owner follows the new requirements imposed by the city they should be allowed to rent their unit out when out on vacation and not be punished.

I agree with everything you say. As an Airbnb host I think the city's policy is reasonable and fair.

I am surprised though that so many shut down. I've done the economics and even with the empty homes tax a lot of these commercial Airbnb operations still seem viable. I guess it must be enforcement from Airbnb's end as well.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

The one issue I'd like to addressed once this policy has been proven in the long term to work is the province step in and eliminate strata rules preventing airbnb. My building like most prevents short term rentals, and that was sound policy when there was abuse, but so long as an owner follows the new requirements imposed by the city they should be allowed to rent their unit out when out on vacation and not be punished.

Why? I don't agree with stratas that limit regular rentals, or pets, but I agree with their ability to self-govern. Those buildings have noticeably lower resale values, due to the limitations imposed. I don't see any problem with that.

I do agree with buildings that outlaw smoking, same principle.

As for AirBNB, many stratas (ours likely soon enough) will allow AirBNBs within the city rules, but also charge an additional fee, TBD on the amount, to compensate for perceived increase wear and tear, security concerns, and so on.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Good, This is a policy I think the city got right. Doesn't matter that they copied another city's policy, it's sound and makes sense for us. Puts the whole airbnb concept to where it was supposed to be originally, let home owners rent out their own space when they go on vacation and make it uneconomical to purchase property for the sake of setting up an airbnb.
The one issue I'd like to addressed once this policy has been proven in the long term to work is the province step in and eliminate strata rules preventing airbnb. My building like most prevents short term rentals, and that was sound policy when there was abuse, but so long as an owner follows the new requirements imposed by the city they should be allowed to rent their unit out when out on vacation and not be punished.

I completely disagree. For most buyers, a condo is something you settle for because you can't afford a house. And now you would make it doubly undesirable by making it less a home, and more a flophouse. If I'm shellling out 1 Million +, I don't want some hooker renting out the suite just inches away from me by the night while she entertains a succession of johns. Case in point:


When residents of a downtown condo tower in Vancouver recently discovered security keys had been copied and distributed to non-residents, they hired a round-the-clock security guard to check everyone entering the building.

There’d already been efforts to deter short-term rentals that were clearly happening at 1252 Hornby St., but concerns peaked when resident Peter Hankins had an altercation with one difficult visitor in the elevator.

Mr. Hankins, who is retired, believes the woman was a prostitute who was trying to make her way into one of the units that was illegally being used for nightly rentals. The strata bylaw prohibits rentals for fewer than six months. When Mr. Hankins told her she couldn’t get to the floor without a proper key fob, she grew irate and called him a litany of offensive names. She then got off at one of the floors and disappeared. The altercation was caught on video.

Mr. Hankins did a bit of sleuthing. He searched Airbnb and found the unit renting for $328 a night. It is one of several short-term rentals in the 16-storey building. He also discovered that guests were accessing the building with key fobs that had been duplicated by one of the many new key-fob duplicating businesses that have sprung up in recent years. The online business owners often arrange to meet with customers at a coffee shop and are able to make a copy within minutes...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...bout-security/

[scryer]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I completely disagree. For most buyers, a condo is something you settle for because you can't afford a house.

I take it you were sold on the American suburb dream, and had to settle?

And now, back on topic!

[jlousa]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I completely disagree. For most buyers, a condo is something you settle for because you can't afford a house. And now you would make it doubly undesirable by making it less a home, and more a flophouse. If I'm shellling out 1 Million +, I don't want some hooker renting out the suite just inches away from me by the night while she entertains a succession of johns. Case in point:


When residents of a downtown condo tower in Vancouver recently discovered security keys had been copied and distributed to non-residents, they hired a round-the-clock security guard to check everyone entering the building.

There’d already been efforts to deter short-term rentals that were clearly happening at 1252 Hornby St., but concerns peaked when resident Peter Hankins had an altercation with one difficult visitor in the elevator.

Mr. Hankins, who is retired, believes the woman was a prostitute who was trying to make her way into one of the units that was illegally being used for nightly rentals. The strata bylaw prohibits rentals for fewer than six months. When Mr. Hankins told her she couldn’t get to the floor without a proper key fob, she grew irate and called him a litany of offensive names. She then got off at one of the floors and disappeared. The altercation was caught on video.

Mr. Hankins did a bit of sleuthing. He searched Airbnb and found the unit renting for $328 a night. It is one of several short-term rentals in the 16-storey building. He also discovered that guests were accessing the building with key fobs that had been duplicated by one of the many new key-fob duplicating businesses that have sprung up in recent years. The online business owners often arrange to meet with customers at a coffee shop and are able to make a copy within minutes...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...bout-security/

Where did I saw I would support that type of behavior? What I said is that if the new city policy proves to work as intended I'd like to it so stratas can't impede on owners rights to also be allowed to follow city rules. That includes having a business license, and only renting out your unit for the predetermined amount of time per year. No owner is going to rent out their primary residency as a flop house on a nightly basis for a few days a year while they are away on vacation. I can't see any owner risk making a few more dollars and rent out nightly instead of scoring one or two renters for the duration of their vacation. If the renter causes issue the strata can fine the owner of the unit for the infractions. Not sure why anyone would argue that the strata should be able to limit an owner from following the letter of the law. I am also a supporter that strata should not be allowed to limit rentals and would like to see that overturned. If the renters cause issues the strata has procedures in place to deal with those situations.

[SpongeG]

'Loophole' appears to help some Airbnb hosts evade city rules: CTV investigation

Published Wednesday, December 19, 2018 6:17PM PST
Last Updated Wednesday, December 19, 2018 6:47PM PST
An unusual tactic by dozens of hosts on Airbnb appears to be another attempt to get around Vancouver’s short-term rental regulations.

Dozens of listings that claim to be from outside Vancouver, but whose pictures and other details clearly show the suites are inside the city, might avoid scrutiny from city investigators, a CTV News investigation has found.

The suites don’t display any Vancouver licences. But the map on Airbnb’s site shows their true location, meaning the listings would show up for customers looking to stay downtown.

...

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/loophole-appea...56CQmpop4ES4t0

[whatnext]

Might as well put this here:

Vancouver hiking short-term rental license fees by 800%
ABC Coun. Lenny Zhou estimated that increasing short-term rental licence fee to $1,000, more than nine times the current $109, could generate an additional $2.6 million in revenue for the city to use on enforcement.
Author of the article: Dan Fumano
Published Sep 13, 2023

Citing concerns about the impact of short-term home rentals on Vancouver’s housing market, city council has ratcheted up the business licence fee for operators by more than nine times the current rate.

“In the past few months, I’ve been very deeply concerned about illegal short-term rentals throughout the city,” said ABC Coun. Lenny Zhou, the councillor who proposed the new higher fee. “I strongly believe that raising fees must go hand-in-hand with stronger enforcement, otherwise we risk encouraging more unregulated operators”.....

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...y-800-per-cent

[WarrenC12]

Enforcement is the biggest problem, we'll see if this makes a dent.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Enforcement is the biggest problem, we'll see if this makes a dent.

When there's significant money on the table, it shouldn't be too crazy to have someone who has the responsibility of browsing AirBnB + Craigslist + VRBO + alternatives.

[GenWhy?]

The $1,000 violation fine is too low as well. See how one could make that in a weekend via the short term rental

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

The $1,000 violation fine is too low as well. See how one could make that in a weekend via the short term rental

Depends whether your goal is to extinguish STRs or to profit off them. I'm still not convinced there's absolutely no place for STRs in Vancouver.

[GenWhy?]

I agree short term rentals have their place here - everywhere. But if you're going to operate outside the rules a $1,000 fine is not going to do the trick.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I agree short term rentals have their place here - everywhere. But if you're going to operate outside the rules a $1,000 fine is not going to do the trick.

But this isn't a fine, this is literally the legal licensing fee. Hope you didn't just read what you wanted to read!

[SpongeG]

New York has changed their rules - main being this: The new rules sanction short-term rentals only in approved homes where hosts are present,

Just How Over Is NYC Airbnb? These Maps Offer a Hint.
Virtually all private short-term rentals are now illegal and difficult to list—but don’t expect low rents anytime soon.

https://slate.com/business/2023/09/n...new-rules.html

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

New York has changed their rules - main being this: The new rules sanction short-term rentals only in approved homes where hosts are present,

https://slate.com/business/2023/09/n...new-rules.html

That's the rule that is supposed to apply in Vancouver. How many here thinks this "host" actually lives in this home:


Mortimer
@mortimer_1
NEW AirBNB Listings!

Not sure if you want to buy this $6.4 million house, stay in one of the 5 AirBNB room listings
https://airbnb.ca/users/show/452978884

Of course "Owner" occupied... 🙄

This is what Vancouver real estate has become

Easy audit target
@LennyNanZhou

@CityofVancouver

https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/statu...77184725352606

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

But this isn't a fine, this is literally the legal licensing fee. Hope you didn't just read what you wanted to read!

No this isn't a fine, but GenWhy's comment is totally accurate. The current by-law fine for not having a business licence for a short-term rental is $1,000. (BY-LAW NO. 12080)

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

No this isn't a fine, but GenWhy's comment is totally accurate. The current by-law fine for not having a business licence for a short-term rental is $1,000. (BY-LAW NO. 12080)

Oops my mistake, I thought we were talking about the same thing. Both are $1000 it would seem. I'm in the same boat then; The C/B of not bothering with a license seems way too high if the fine for not getting a $1000 license is... $1000.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by chowhou

But this isn't a fine, this is literally the legal licensing fee. Hope you didn't just read what you wanted to read!

For illegal Air-BnBs the fine is $1000. I'm saying that fine is not enough.