How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City?

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I have a question for the "COVID is mutating and the vaccine may eventually stop working" porn crowd:

What happens when a new vaccine for the mutant strain is created?

Then we get that shot.

Then the mutant strain mutates further so that the new shot is no longer effective?

Then we will get a new shot for the new strains...

Then that shot is no longer effective because COVID has mutated even further..

But then there's another new shot...

And another set of new mutations....

And another new shot....

All the while ALL of NYC's restaurants, gyms, and bars are long closed & the roofs collapsed..
All of the hotels everywhere are abandoned
We all are connected via wires from our scalps to our laptops and order everything on Amazon while watching CNN updates on COVID infection rates 24/7
And Pedestrian now has long hair, a long beard, looks like Gandalf, and slurps all of his meals through a sterile straw

But we will STILL BE SAFE!!!!!!

First of all, is it possible for you to be respectful of anyone who disagrees with you? Evidently not. You are acting like a jerk and I am going to report future posts that feature ad hominem attacks until the mods take some action.

Now on to the substance.

This is based on an entirely FALSE premise. Nobody here is advocating keeping everything locked down.

I believe we are in agreement that once most people who are willing--and I do think there needs to be some coercion of the less than willing such as vaccine passports for indoor crowded events, pressure at office job sites to either get vaccinated or undergo frequent testing at YOUR expense and so on--have been vaccinated, we can relax most of the public health measures. I personally plan to continue to wear a mask in some settings where I never would have thought of doing so previously until COVID become truly a sporadic illness with NO regularly occurring cases. But even that should probably become voluntary one we have given as many shots as people are willing to take.

Finally, yes, we MAY need to continuously come up with new vaccines and the mRNA technology makes that pretty easy. But if we suppress coronavirus replication drastically, mutation may be few and far between and new "booster" shots may hardly be needed.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I got flu shots just about every year in middle and high school, but only because my parents were required to be vaccinated for work. I haven't gotten a flu shot since college, but I got the flu a couple of years ago and it was no fun at all. If it were more convenient to get the shot, I would do it every year without question.

How much more convenient does it have to be? Every year I walk into a Walgreen's (that's Duane Reade to you I think) or CVS and say I'd like a flu shot please and within 30 minutes I walk out having had one (paid for by my insurance).

In another month or two, getting a COVID shot will hopefully be like that too.

[woodrow]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

56 is old? Holy shit!

And I disagree that we should be targeting any age group for vaccination. All adults should be encouraged to get the shots. I’m not as irrationally freaked about variants as some others are, but we DO have to acknowledge that as long as the viral load is high in the public, the virus will gradually evolve into resistant strains. Keeping viral levels low within the population is the best way to dramatically slow that process down.

No no...he's right. I am ready to be put out to pasture. Getting my cane fitt'n next week.

But to your point on variants, like you I am not freaked out, but if we can minimize the number of variants and their potential problems, why not? That is why I want everyone, old and young, to get vaccinated, whether mRNA based or vaccines like J&J (assuming there is 1. No causal connection or 2. Deemed worth the risk).

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

How much more convenient does it have to be? Every year I walk into a Walgreen's (that's Duane Reade to you I think) or CVS and say I'd like a flu shot please and within 30 minutes I walk out having had one (paid for by my insurance).

In another month or two, getting a COVID shot will hopefully be like that too.

That sounds easy, but not necessarily convenient. I'm not making an excuse, because I know I could get one if I needed to. But I have to substantially alter my routine to get a shot, and it's not usually a pressing concern. Now that I'm getting older I'll probably be more responsible.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 10023

Except it’s not me making incorrect, unsupported statements. It’s me and like a dozen other forumers making statements which are supported by a year’s worth of clinical and statistical data, and then you and one or two other hypochondriacs saying that the sky is falling and young, healthy people need to act like we are still in lockdown or we’ll all die.

You're the other extreme of the hypochondriacs who wear 2 masks in the car and think we're all going to die. It's somewhere in the middle..like most issues. Young people should get vaccinated if not for themselves but for us to reach herd immunity. My mother-in-law is in remission for a form of leukemia which rendered her vaccination useless so it's in her best interest and those like her if everyone gets vaccinated. Plus, you're age group isn't bullet proof; half the people I see in their 30's are not exactly in tip top shape.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

The mRNA vaccines are likely among the safest possible vaccines and even though there's not long-term testing (nor will such necessarily be generally applicable even when we have relatively long term experience with the coronavirus mRNA vaccines), it's hard to come up with a theory on how they could do harm which is in contrast to traditional vaccines and other techniques. mRNA, unlike other forms of RNA, does not get incorporated into the human genome and its existence within the body is transitory. It is soon destroyed by the body. It is emphatically NOT a gene editing technology.


https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

Finally, you are also incorrect in saying that this technology is "brand new". In fact, there has been a lot of research with it and numerous prototype vaccines previously created. As the CDC put it:


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ines/mrna.html

This idea that mRNA vaccine technology is entirely new and untried is a media fiction you have bought hook, line and sinker. You don't even know how it works.

For a MUCH more thorough discussion of the research and past vaccines, see https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

Maybe we are confused about the use of the word “essentially”. It tricks the body into producing antibodies by the introduction of genetic code. If it was not temporary and was incorporated permanently into the patient’s genome, then it wouldn’t have been “essentially” anything, it would be actual gene editing technology like Luxturna.

There has never been an approved mRNA vaccine. There have not even been large scale phase 3 studies of a previous mRNA vaccine, just earlier stage research. It is a new technology.

[10023]

Originally Posted by JManc

You're the other extreme of the hypochondriacs who wear 2 masks in the car and think we're all going to die. It's somewhere in the middle..like most issues. Young people should get vaccinated if not for themselves but for us to reach herd immunity. My mother-in-law is in remission for a form of leukemia which rendered her vaccination useless so it's in her best interest and those like her if everyone gets vaccinated. Plus, you're age group isn't bullet proof; half the people I see in their 30's are not exactly in tip top shape.

Well, I’m in pretty damn good shape. I’ve also apparently had Covid and those antibodies are as good as the ones from a vaccine with respect to herd immunity.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

How much more convenient does it have to be? Every year I walk into a Walgreen's (that's Duane Reade to you I think) or CVS and say I'd like a flu shot please and within 30 minutes I walk out having had one (paid for by my insurance).

In another month or two, getting a COVID shot will hopefully be like that too.

30 minutes is actually quite a long time to spend waiting around in a pharmacy for someone who isn’t retired.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by woodrow

No no...he's right. I am ready to be put out to pasture. Getting my cane fitt'n next week.

But to your point on variants, like you I am not freaked out, but if we can minimize the number of variants and their potential problems, why not? That is why I want everyone, old and young, to get vaccinated, whether mRNA based or vaccines like J&J (assuming there is 1. No causal connection or 2. Deemed worth the risk).

Nobody here is "freaked out". Frankly, I doubt there's as much disagreement as some might wish.

We mostly agree the CDC blew their early responsibilities with a test that didn't work and totally inadequate contact tracing and so on a year ago. In my opinion, their most important job right now is genotyping any and all "breakthrough" cases looking for evidence of variants that do have an ability to evade the vaccines in serious numbers and, if any are discovered, making sure that production of modified vaccines is in process. The article I posted above suggests they are on top of this. I just hope they are.

It is also important to reduce viral replication as much as possible. That will minimize the potential for mutations that could be a problem. And it means getting as many people as possible vaccinated, young and old (it doesn't matter how sick the virus makes you when it infects you--it can mutate in you regardless). It also means that young people avoiding vaccination and/or accepting a high degree of risk of infection is a problem for everyone because they are an incubator for potential mutations.

All this is among the reasons 10023's attitude is so wrong. But to the degree urban politician just wants lockdowns and economy-damaging restrictions lifted, we agree. I've personally never been for the tightest of measures (I said at the beginning of this discussion that I wouldn't stay locked in my home even if told to) and I agree with him that even the time for lesser but economy-damaging measures has passed. And for G*d sake get the schools open.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by 10023

30 minutes is actually quite a long time to spend waiting around in a pharmacy for someone who isn’t retired.

Nobody said I was "waiting around" that long. The vaccination was quite prompt but there's some paperwork to fill out (questionnaire about past reactions etc) and then you have to wait the usual 15 minutes to be sure you don't have a reaction.

And my gosh, how many minutes a day do you spend "working out"? Arguably 30 minutes spent getting a flue shot once a year is a better way to spend that 30 minutes.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by 10023

Well, I’m in pretty damn good shape. I’ve also apparently had Covid and those antibodies are as good as the ones from a vaccine with respect to herd immunity.

1. You keep telling us what great shape you are in. We are suitably impressed.

2. Did you finally have the SARS-CoV-2 antibody test?

3. There is data the antibodies one gets from having infection are NOT as good as from the complete vaccination series. That's why nearly all experts are recommending even people who've had COVID get vaccinated.

Is immunity from the vaccine stronger than natural immunity from infection?

“The first time your body sees the spike protein, it activates some immune system cells to begin to recognize and develop antibodies against that protein,” said Boslett*. The response may be similar whether that first encounter is from infection with the virus or from the first dose of the vaccine.

Studies of the mRNA vaccines suggest that one dose may offer between 50 to 80 percent protection against symptomatic COVID-19, though more data is needed, said Boslett. “We know you get some amount of protection after one dose of the vaccine or after infection with the virus, but we don’t know in either case how long that protection lasts,” she said. Some cases of reinfection have been reported after three to six months, so the protection from one dose of the vaccine also may wane in that timeframe.

“However, when you get the second dose of the vaccine, you’re further training your immune system,” said Boslett. “You’re strengthening that response from the antibody-producing B cells and you’re also activating T memory cells that stick around for much longer.” Getting both doses of the vaccine means your body is shown this spike protein multiple times in a short duration. “So that immune response might be bigger, better and longer lasting than just getting the infection one time,” she said.

Because the booster effect is so important, Boslett adds that this is why people who have had COVID-19 are still recommended to get the vaccine.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2021/01/41...s-common-fears

*Bryn Boslett, MD, an infectious disease expert who is leading the vaccination effort at UC San Francisco

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

LOL Exactly.


I have already spent 13 months of my life living like this, I am done.

What if I die at 50? I would have spent 2% of my life inside.



At what point do you fearmongers just say "alright, this is a virus, we have to move on with our lives before we don't have the same life to move back to?" 2 more months? 6? 1 year? Never?

If you think normal people are gonna continue to put their lives on hold because of your fear, sorry, not going to happen.

Lord knows I have not put my life on hold. I have gone on road trips to multiple locations and stayed at various hotels in multiple States. I never stopped shopping and have eaten at plenty of restaurants with outdoor seating. I also have gotten together with different friends and family without masks and had friends vacation at my home. In other words I have not been the poster child for proper pandemic behavior. Fortunately I never got sick and am now a week into my second Pfizer shot.

All that said I would not go shopping in a grocery store without a mask more because I have taken risks and want to mitigate that risk to strangers. I would not eat in a crowded restaurant or go to a bar yet. I am not upset that these establishments are opening up and if adults want to frequent them so be it. Just be decent and respectable when you're in a public place that other people need to be rather than choose to be in like a grocery store post office, pharmacy etc. and wear a mask is all I ask. Oh and get vaccinated as soon as you can. I find it odd some people are not concerned about catching the virus but then are concerned about getting the vaccine because one in a million have had an adverse reaction.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

At last some concrete data:


https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-ide...d=hp_lead_pos7

A few comments:

- The overall number and percentage of breakthrough cases isn't surprising and, in fact, is reassuring. Even more reassuring to me is that the CDC seems to be on top of genomic sequencing of breakthrough cases to determine whether they are viruses against which the vaccines are effective most of the time or possibly new mutant strains against which the vaccine my have significant lesser effectiveness. So far, that hasn't been the case.

- What is a bit surprising to me although maybe it shouldn't be is that 74 breakthrough cases have died. Recall that in phase 3 testing with the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, there were NO deaths among vaccinated individuals.

- Finally, 40% of the breakthrough cases were in people older than 60 whereas (by subtraction) 60% were younger than 60. Given the preponderance of older people among those so far vaccinated, this is a bit surprising. One possibility is that it's because the younger people who were vaccinated early were largely at higher than typical risk--health care workers and so on. In any case, this would seem to confirm that the vaccine works at least as well in older people as in younger in spite of their supposedly weaker immune systems.

Thanks for sharing this, and it's more than enough evidence to continue the path we are on to opening everything back up by early-mid Summer.....

No reason to suspect urban areas this Summer won't be party-central.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Nobody said I was "waiting around" that long. The vaccination was quite prompt but there's some paperwork to fill out (questionnaire about past reactions etc) and then you have to wait the usual 15 minutes to be sure you don't have a reaction.

And my gosh, how many minutes a day do you spend "working out"? Arguably 30 minutes spent getting a flue shot once a year is a better way to spend that 30 minutes.

Well no, not for me it isn’t. I can’t even remember the last time I had flu and the exercise is part of the reason why.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 10023

Well no, not for me it isn’t. I can’t even remember the last time I had flu and the exercise is part of the reason why.

Exercise doesn't prevent the flu, nor does it prevent COVID. Also, I'm reasonably certain that I got infected with the flu at the gym when I had it a couple of years ago. Gyms are germ factories.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by 10023

Well no, not for me it isn’t. I can’t even remember the last time I had flu and the exercise is part of the reason why.

I get the flu shot every year. Two or three years ago I got the flu shot as usual and developed a nagging cough that I couldn't shake. I eventually went to my Doc and he swabbed my throat and came back into the examining room a few minutes later wearing a mask, announcing that I had the flu. I hadn't even suspected it. Whichever year that was the prevailing strain was particularly virulent and he said if I hadn't gotten the flu shot I undoubtedly would have been in the hospital. I'm 58 now, so I would have been mid 50's at the time. Healthy, non smoker, not obese.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 10023

Well, I’m in pretty damn good shape. I’ve also apparently had Covid and those antibodies are as good as the ones from a vaccine with respect to herd immunity.

As am I but a lot of people our ages are not so it's disingenuous to claim our age groups don't need vaccinations because we ourselves simply happen to be fit/ healthy.

Originally Posted by 10023

30 minutes is actually quite a long time to spend waiting around in a pharmacy for someone who isn’t retired.

Man, you are not that important or busy that you can't wait a half hour to get a vaccine once a year.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by JManc

As am I but a lot of people our ages are not so it's disingenuous to claim our age groups don't need vaccinations because we ourselves simply happen to be fit/ healthy.



Man, you are not that important or busy that you can't wait a half hour to get a vaccine once a year.

I know. Reading all his messages I have come to conclude that apparently there is a "cult of ignorance" in the United Kingdom too.

[Pedestrian]

Indoor Venues Can Reopen in San Francisco, Plus…
April 14, 2021

As of Thursday, April 15, 2021, indoor live-audience events, performances and private events (such as conferences and receptions) will be allowed to resume in San Francisco, albeit at reduced capacities, and existing restrictions on other activities and gatherings will be further relaxed.

Indoor ticketed and seated events will be allowed to operate at up to 35% capacity, “as long as all participants keep their masks on except when eating or drinking in designated concessions areas away from their seats, distancing requirements can be met, and participants show proof of vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test before they enter the venue.”

In addition, venues will be allowed to create “vaccinated-only sections” with relaxed distancing requirements. And for venues operating at 15% capacity or less, with no more than 200 people in total, proof of vaccination or a negative test result will not be required.

Private events, such as meetings, conventions, and receptions, may also resume being held indoors, with up to 150 participants, as long as there is assigned seating and proof of vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test for all participants. Such events may also be held outdoors, with the same guidelines in place, with up to 300 people, or with up to 100 people without proof of vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test result for the participants.

Outdoor ticketed venues for live-audience events and performances will be allowed to expand capacity up to 50%, with proof of vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test result required if there are 4,000 or more audience members (or 100 or more audience members and food and beverages are served). In all cases, attendees must continue to wear facial coverings for the duration of all events, except when eating or drinking. And as with indoor venues, outdoor venues may create vaccinated-only sections with relaxed distancing restrictions.

While outdoor drinking and dining allowances for restaurants and bars will be expanded to allow for up to 8 people per table, and without any limitation on the number of households represented, indoor bars, wineries, breweries and distilleries that do not serve bona fide meals will remain closed.

Community centers serving seniors and adult day care will also be able to reopen to 25% capacity.

And while “strongly discouraged,” small indoor social gatherings of up to 25 people, “with face coverings on at all times” and no food or beverages being served, will be allowed, as will outdoor gatherings of up to 50 people (again with face coverings and distancing, or up to 25 people if food or drink is being consumed).

https://socketsite.com/archives/2021...nly-areas.html

"4,000 or more audience members (or 100 or more audience members and food and beverages are served)"--sounds like baseball, football, soccer to me.

In also like that there's going to be so much incentive to get vaccinated for people of all ages. CA is now vaccinating everyone 16 and above.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

Man, you are not that important or busy that you can't wait a half hour to get a vaccine once a year.

Like I said, 30 minutes wasn't spent waiting. It was total time in and out including the 15 minutes required to be sure there was no allergic reaction--something no reputable place would allow you to avoid.