Southwest Architecture Thread

[plinko]

You can label Meier and Gehry as hacks if you like (and as an architect I like some of their buildings and dislike some of their buildings), but I think you have a large misunderstanding about architecture as a profession (at least in terms of 'starchitects'). These guys got to where they are by creating something out of the ordinary, they gain noteriety based on said building, and then they get labelled as 'hacks' when other clients come in and say 'I want THAT for my city'. Architecture is not a pure art (you said that yourself), and the overriding technical implications make it much different and thus not directly comparable to fashion, painting or movies, etc. It just isn't.

I'm not apologizing for the courthouse, not in the slightest. But I can at least appreciate that Meier tried something different here. It didn't work (and you could say that it failed miserably), but there's a lesson there. If Meier had done something more practical in terms of the building's mechanical systems (and nobody had bitched about it), the only thing that most people might complain about the building is how it kills the streetscape. Federal courthouses as a typology tend to do that, it's just a product of security.

I'd like to go back to pointing out John's comment that there are much, much worse buildings in DT Phoenix in terms of bad design, bad aesthetics and bad street interaction. Maybe we should have a new thread about that? It seems to have generated some interesting discussion and debate here.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by plinko

You can label Meier and Gehry as hacks if you like (and as an architect I like some of their buildings and dislike some of their buildings), but I think you have a large misunderstanding about architecture as a profession (at least in terms of 'starchitects'). These guys got to where they are by creating something out of the ordinary, they gain noteriety based on said building, and then they get labelled as 'hacks' when other clients come in and say 'I want THAT for my city'.

I was just being silly/over exaggerating to make a point about the Starchitects thing, I know they sometimes get locked into doing the same thing because its what they get asked to do. Either way, I find both of them pretty awful for the most part and rather uncreative when one looks at their body of work as a whole.

Originally Posted by plinko

I'd like to go back to pointing out John's comment that there are much, much worse buildings in DT Phoenix in terms of bad design, bad aesthetics and bad street interaction. Maybe we should have a new thread about that? It seems to have generated some interesting discussion and debate here.

Just because other buildings may be bad doesn't make the courthouse good or even acceptable. No other building that Im aware of in downtown Phoenix is as all around awful as the courthouse. Some may have mechanical and climate issues, some may create super blocks, some may be ugly, some may be uncreative, but the courthouse combines all of those into one giant pile of awful.

I was thinking of starting a thread (not just about Downtown but the Valley in general) where we can nominate various structures for praise and scorn. Maybe we could group them by types (Civic buildings, sports, residential, educational, etc) and come up with a best and worst in each category and maybe runners up?

Though Im not sure how we could create polls for voting on multiple things...if thats even possible. Maybe the forum would allow you to vote for one thing at a time for a set amount of time, and then change the polls components...?

[Don B.]

I'm with Hoover on this issue. The Cleveland Federal Courthouse building is a good example of something that looks like a real courthouse. Ours looks like a giant greenhouse, with all of the thrill and height of a Motel 6.

Nice (and had the Cleveland courthouse been built here - it would be the second tallest building in Arizona -- that's utterly pathetic):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_B....House_Building

Image in Cleveland's skyline (it's the tall building on the left):
http://writlarge.files.wordpress.com...cleveland1.jpg

Image of it at night:
http://www.put-in-bay.k12.oh.us/Scho.../cleveland.jpg

Not so nice (my aerial shot of downtown Phoenix with the "courthouse"):
http://burnsphotos.zenfolio.com/img/...p118600088.jpg

We're done here. Phoenix loses again... *sigh*

--don

[kaneui]

Anyone seen this Bruder-designed Agave Library in N. Phoenix built in 2009? From the comments on Architectural Record, sounds like a love-it-or-hate-it sorta building:



(photo: Bill Timmerman)


For the article, a slideshow, and video: http://archrecord.construction.com/p...003agave-1.asp


*address is 23550 N. 36th Ave., N. of Pinnacle Peak Rd.

[CPVLIVE]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

You have a choice when you hire an architect. Architecture is art and someone is not going to deviate from their art because of a climate. It's expected that if you want a certain thing, you hire an architect that would produce what you are envisioning.

Precisely. You can't blame Meier here. Most public buildings with this high of a profile are selected after some sort of submissions process. The group of prospective architects is narrowed to a short list of finalists by some sort of selection committee. The finalists then present their 'vision' to the committee/community and the winner is chosen. I find it hard it believe that those responsible didn't know what Meier had in mind for this courthouse. In fact I bet Meier presented preliminary designs that are very near what was finally produced.

[PHX31]

I was looking through THIS photo thread and noticed this:

51- Mongolian svastikas :


My eyes really couldn't see the swastikas until I looked closer at it. I didn't think much of it until I started noticing it in other places around Phoenix recently. I know the swastika was a "good" symbol until the Nazis used it, but it is still interesting to see it around town on public buildings, no matter how old the buildings are.

The old historic Cotton Exchange Building (from 1920) in downtown Phoenix next to City Hall:

from google earth street view

Some older building (been there since the 50s) on the SEC of 16th Street and Thomas which houses a Chinese Restaurant:

from google earth street view

It may be a pretty prevelant architectural detail, but I never noticed it before and it's fairly interesting.