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  #7381  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:12 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
Bars, restaurants, bookstores requiring proof of vaccination is much like a face covering. It's virtue signaling and does nothing to stop the spread of a virus.
What's wrong with that? It doesn't seem to hurt the goal of getting as many people vaccinated as possible.
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  #7382  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:25 PM
homebucket homebucket is offline
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Restaurants and other small businesses should be allowed to set the rules of etiquette.

No blazer? Go to the next restaurant.
No reservations? Go to the next restaurant that is taking walk ins.
No vaccine? Go breed, grass feed, pasture raise, humanely slaughter, butcher, dry age, and grill your own cattle.

It’s not. That. Difficult.
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  #7383  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:38 PM
10023 10023 is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Maybe you don't like it, but I think that the lunkheads refusing vaccination are doing far more 'posturing' than the grownups who went and got stuck.

Preposterous, simply preposterous, that there is even a movement whatsoever against vaccination to begin with. This all began when a bunch of scoundrels decided to seed doubt in peoples' minds about getting the Measles vaccine for their children. Now this mental illness has infested our society, creating doubt FOR NO REASON.

I for one think it's great that private businesses are requiring vaccines for entry. If you want to save yourself, make photocopies and take cell phone pics of your vaccine card, just to be sure.
There’s no reason to complain to me about anti-vaxxers. I’m not one. I just don’t care if people choose not to be. It’s their own life.

The problem is that this “there could be a more dangerous variant!” panic has to stop. There will always be new variants and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Vaccine producers will keep up as well as they can, and a fair number of frail and elderly people will continue to die, just like flu.

That’s life. We all die some day. The baby boomers seem inclined to cause as much suffering as necessary to future generations in order to prolong theirs a bit longer, because they are generally selfish assholes.

(By the way I think my distaste for the elderly must stem partly from having lived in this country for so long. Elderly Brits are the worst.)
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  #7384  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:49 PM
10023 10023 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Restaurants and other small businesses should be allowed to set the rules of etiquette.

No blazer? Go to the next restaurant.
No reservations? Go to the next restaurant that is taking walk ins.
No vaccine? Go breed, grass feed, pasture raise, humanely slaughter, butcher, dry age, and grill your own cattle.

It’s not. That. Difficult.
The problem is that proving vaccination presents many more challenges than any of those things.

Paper vaccine cards aren’t designed to be carried around at all times. They’re pretty fragile. They don’t fit in a wallet or a pocket. They are tricky to replace.

What about foreign tourists who don’t have a CDC vaccination card? Are you expecting bar and restaurant staff to decide whether to accept proof of vaccination from, say, an Italian tourist?

More “sophisticated” systems in other countries are even worse, as I have previously pointed out, because they’re inflexible. If businesses in different countries can’t recognise other countries’ vaccination credentials then the whole system is worthless.

By the way, if any of you are planning to travel to Europe, you might get by with a CDC paper card but you will definitely not be able to use a photo or photocopy.
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Last edited by 10023; Aug 3, 2021 at 4:04 PM.
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  #7385  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 2:56 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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NYC will require proof of vaccination for indoor dining, gyms, and performance venues by mid-September (customers and employees):

Quote:
New York City will require proof of vaccination for indoor dining and fitness.

Mayor Bill de Blasio announced Tuesday morning that New York City will require proof of vaccination for people participating in indoor activities, including at restaurants, gyms and performances, his latest attempt to spur more vaccinations. The mandate also applies to workers at those places.

The policy is similar to mandates issued in France and Italy last month and is believed to be the first of its kind in the United States.

The program will start later this month, and after a transition period enforcement will begin in mid-September, when schools are expected to reopen and more workers could return to offices in Manhattan.

Mr. de Blasio has been moving aggressively to get more New Yorkers vaccinated to curtail a third wave of coronavirus cases. He is requiring city workers to get vaccinated or to face weekly testing, and he has offered a $100 incentive for the public.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/n...e-mandate.html
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  #7386  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
NYC will require proof of vaccination for indoor dining, gyms, and performance venues by mid-September (customers and employees):
will it only apply to the over 12's, or will it become illegal for anyone under the age of 12 to go anywhere indoors because they can't yet receive vaccinations?
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  #7387  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:01 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
will it only apply to the over 12's, or will it become illegal for anyone under the age of 12 to go anywhere indoors because they can't yet receive vaccinations?
Details, lol. I don't think anyone knows yet.
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  #7388  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:08 PM
homebucket homebucket is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
NYC will require proof of vaccination for indoor dining, gyms, and performance venues by mid-September (customers and employees):
Welps, time to bust out the riot gear.
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  #7389  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:11 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
This isn’t their job. And they are creating “inconveniences” for the vaccinated as well, as Steely’s anecdote demonstrates. Just wait until your card gets torn or lost and it takes weeks of phone calls to have it replaced.

It’s moral posturing.
To be fair here, these are private businesses.... They have the right to refuse service for any reason (aside from discrimination based on [insert group]). Every adult can get the vaccine, so..... private businesses have every right to do this. It will be interesting to see people on the right twist themselves into trying to be for private enterprise/capitalism while also being completely against private businesses making their own choices.

Also, if I had to guess, I think these are businesses hedging against more lockdowns from their local governments. If you own a small business right now, what would you rather have? No vaccine mandate and risk the government shutting everything back down again, or requiring people be vaccinated and continue on as normal?

I suspect most folks are in the latter category at this point because the former is not desirable by any group of people.

I am not against it, but you will start seeing lawsuits flying any second now. How the courts respond though I have no idea.

Also - Maybe this will help flesh out some standardized vaccine passports that we can all use for travel, events, etc. That's how you avoid worrying about taking your card everywhere you go.
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  #7390  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:28 PM
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Now we just need to get liquor stores to require it and gun stores and than we will achieve 100% vaccination minus those under 12.

Yeah vaccine requirements are coming. NYC, I believe SF and other will follow suit.

Sooner folks get the Pfizer or Moderna or J&J into their arms, sooner we can go back to peace.

Those Southern cities need to start requiring it, go the way of NYC. They are the big hurdle, those areas.
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  #7391  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
will it only apply to the over 12's, or will it become illegal for anyone under the age of 12 to go anywhere indoors because they can't yet receive vaccinations?
From this article about the Broadway theaters it only applies to those over 12 and those with a medical condition or closely-held religious beliefs

Quote:
According to the statement, exceptions will be made for children younger than 12 years old as well as those with a medical condition or closely-held religious belief that prevent vaccination.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/enter...red/index.html
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  #7392  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
will it only apply to the over 12's, or will it become illegal for anyone under the age of 12 to go anywhere indoors because they can't yet receive vaccinations?
This is a law to punish those who do not comply, and under 12 do not have a means to comply, so they should/will be exempt. Maybe have to wear a mask, who knows on that one?
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  #7393  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 3:42 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is online now
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I would actually prefer businesses enforce a vaccination requirement for all than enforce a mask requirement for all. It's difficult to enforce a mask requirement only if unvaccinated since the unvaccinated will just lie (not that I have any problem with this, they are the ones taking the risk). It does create all kinds of complications as 10023 mentioned but as a temporary measure to push another 10-20% of the population to get vaccinated I think it's an okay tradeoff. Though my #1 preference would be no mandates for anything and let the anti-vax get sick if that is their decision.
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  #7394  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 4:04 PM
eschaton eschaton is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWAK View Post
This is a law to punish those who do not comply, and under 12 do not have a means to comply, so they should/will be exempt. Maybe have to wear a mask, who knows on that one?
Plus, unvaxxed kids with vaxxed parents are way less likely to get COVID.
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  #7395  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
From this article about the Broadway theaters it only applies to those over 12 and those with a medical condition or closely-held religious beliefs



https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/enter...red/index.html
Pardon my ignorance but which religious beliefs forbid vaccinations, outside of johnny-come-lately cults?
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  #7396  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 4:51 PM
homebucket homebucket is offline
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I'd also be in favor of businesses enforcing proof of vaccine rather than an indoor mask mandate actually, although it looks like it'll be both that are being mandated, since it rewards the vaccinated individual.

By doing your civic duty, you are allowed the privilege to utilize other people's businesses and services (ideally mask free). You and your unvaccinated children can also avoid interacting with unvaccinated people who, by virtue of being unvaccinated, are far more likely to be infectious, and as we've seen, far less intelligent and less pleasant people to interact with.
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  #7397  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 6:56 PM
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Pardon my ignorance but which religious beliefs forbid vaccinations, outside of johnny-come-lately cults?
OK so I just did a quick check and none of the established religions in the world forbid or discourage their faithful from getting vaccinated.

So not sure why public authorities would open the door to this exemption when there is no apparent need for it.
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  #7398  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 8:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
Bars, restaurants, bookstores requiring proof of vaccination is much like a face covering. It's virtue signaling and does nothing to stop the spread of a virus.


You know how many underage kids go to bars and clubs with sophisticated fake IDs, this is a piece of paper with black ink on it, with someone's awful handwriting scribbled on the vaccines lines. Mine has stickers on it, lol.
I have no qualms about businesses weeding people out who haven't been vaccinated even if I'm not on board with them requiring masks since you have to take them off to eat and drink anyway. Why not remove masks indoors from the equation altogether plus eliminating risk of covid but disallowing unvaccinated from the premises? There's virtually no excuse not to get vaccinated other than to rebel against government, science, mommy, whatever so not sure why the rest of us should have to lockdown and wear pointless masks indefinitely because of this.
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  #7399  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I have no qualms about businesses weeding people out who haven't been vaccinated even if I'm not on board with them requiring masks since you have to take them off to eat and drink anyway. Why not remove masks indoors from the equation altogether plus eliminating risk of covid but disallowing unvaccinated from the premises? There's virtually no excuse not to get vaccinated other than to rebel against government, science, mommy, whatever so not sure why the rest of us should have to lockdown and wear pointless masks indefinitely because of this.
First of all, the "rights" issue is a non-starter. No one has any more "right" to be a potential spreader of infection by entering indoor public spaces while being unvaccinated than those who are there have "rights" to be protected from them.

As for masks, you apparently really don't like wearing them and no one can convince you to like it. But a properly fitted N95 or KN95 offers an increment of protection to the wearer and an increment of reduction in viral spreading that, at a time like this with a highly contagious variant peaking, is useful to the public health. It reduces the 12% (or so) effectiveness gap of the current vaccines significantly and therefore is warranted, perhaps only until we are through this wave (which I believe will be another 1-2 months).
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  #7400  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2021, 9:51 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
First of all, the "rights" issue is a non-starter. No one has any more "right" to be a potential spreader of infection by entering indoor public spaces while being unvaccinated than those who are there have "rights" to be protected from them.

As for masks, you apparently really don't like wearing them and no one can convince you to like it. But a properly fitted N95 or KN95 offers an increment of protection to the wearer and an increment of reduction in viral spreading that, at a time like this with a highly contagious variant peaking, is useful to the public health. It reduces the 12% (or so) effectiveness gap of the current vaccines significantly and therefore is warranted, perhaps only until we are through this wave (which I believe will be another 1-2 months).


You are something else. You're fully vaccinated and you're wearing an N95 to protect yourself from the veritable common cold.

Otherwordly how off the rocker you've gotten
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