CHICAGO: 'Redefine the Drive' - 'Bike the Drive' Day!

[Howard_L]

Today was Chicago's yearly 'Bike the Drive' https://bikethedrive.org/. The city closes all (8!) lanes of Lake Shore Drive motorway traffic to autos and bikes rule the morning.

I volunteer with a great group called 'Better Streets Chicago' https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/ (maybe some of you know this amazing group) and we had (3) teams taking audio, video, and decibel readings from Foster Beach to almost Oak Street Beach (rain, wind, and the one shirtless hottie who photobombed the Chess Pavilion video recording be damned.)

The idea was to get baseline sound readings on the only day of the year free from the motorway noise. We will be making future recordings on the other 364/365ths of the year when it is absolute acoustic mayhem.

tl;dr ... I'm trying to get a sense of what people's opinion of the current state of affairs on the Drive is and if they have (strong) opinions about 'Redefine the Drive' https://northdusablelakeshoredrive.org/

I am a newly minted citizen activist and I am trying to gauge what the average Chicagoan and visitor (thanks for stopping by) thinks of DSM(aMR), the DuSable Motorway (and Motorcycle Raceway).

Thanks mates!

Also, post any opinions/anecdotes. I am the world's most polite person (unless Malört).

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Howard_L

Today was Chicago's yearly 'Bike the Drive' https://bikethedrive.org/. The city closes all (8!) lanes of Lake Shore Drive motorway traffic to autos and bikes rule the morning.

I volunteer with a great group called 'Better Streets Chicago' https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/ (maybe some of you know this amazing group) and we had (3) teams taking audio, video, and decibel readings from Foster Beach to almost Oak Street Beach (rain, wind, and the one shirtless hottie who photobombed the Chess Pavilion video recording be damned.)

The idea was to get baseline sound readings on the only day of the year free from the motorway noise. We will be making future recordings on the other 364/365ths of the year when it is absolute acoustic mayhem.

tl;dr ... I'm trying to get a sense of what people's opinion of the current state of affairs on the Drive is and if they have (strong) opinions about 'Redefine the Drive' https://northdusablelakeshoredrive.org/

I am a newly minted citizen activist and I am trying to gauge what the average Chicagoan and visitor (thanks for stopping by) thinks of DSM(aMR), the DuSable Motorway (and Motorcycle Raceway).

Thanks mates!

Also, post any opinions/anecdotes. I am the world's most polite person (unless Malört).

I used to live on the north side of Chicago near the lake. I loved the drive, especially taking the express buses to work. Sure the drive would back up during commuting times or busy weekend events, but the backups are no worse than those of other major cities or expressways like the Dan Ryan or Eisenhower in Chicago, or the I-95 corridor in DC. Better yet, you do get to see a wonderful scenery of the lake and skyline while you sit in traffic on Lake Shore Drive...I noticed that there appears to be proposal to change the name of Lake Shore Drive to the DuSable Motorway. I would disagree with changing the name, especially to 'Motorway" as that gives the impression that it is fast racetrack or speeding drive, while Lake Shore Drive name exudes a relaxing drive. I think changing the name to Motorway might inadvertently cause more speeding and accidents.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by DCReid

...I noticed that there appears to be proposal to change the name of Lake Shore Drive to the DuSable Motorway.

The city officially changed the name to "Jean Baptiste Pointe du Sable Lake Shore Drive" last summer to honor chicago's first non-native settler, but everyone still just calls it "lake shore drive" or "LSD".

I'm not aware of any seriously considered proposals to change the name to "motorway". That's a British term for expressways that I've never heard used here in the US.

[Klippenstein]

I saw another volunteer posting on twitter about this project. Seems like a great initiative to show the city that there's plenty of people open to reimagining DLSD.

Unfortunately, I heard that the consultants on this project are from Lisle and Schaumburg, which does not bode well. On top of that Chicago has been super reluctant to give up any street space dedicated to cars. If we get a dedicated bus lane, more infill park space along the lakefront especially where it's super thin and ideally updated ped/bike crossings... I'll be happy.

[Howard_L]

Apologies for the motorway confusion. I use that as a derogatory term to emphasize how far last century's planners drifted from the original intent of Lake Shore and how little imagination the 'Redefine' planners have now.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

If we get a dedicated bus lane, more infill park space along the lakefront especially where it's super thin and ideally updated ped/bike crossings... I'll be happy.

Yeah, I think that's best case scenario here.

I can't envision a scenario where the north LSD expressway goes away in its entirety.

[Howard_L]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I can't envision a scenario where the north LSD expressway goes away in its entirety.

I can and there are a fair few others who can as well.

The limited access divided highway approach was not the original idea for the Lakefront and, though, it may have seemed like a great idea at the time, the negatives outweigh the positives now.

Several ideas are out there to basically extend the urbanity of Michigan Avenue north into those sections of the Drive where front doors have a Lake Shore or Marine Drive address.

It is going to be a tough sell and it will require some surgically focused politicking but it can happen. We have to leave the world a better place when we leave.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Howard_L

I can and there are a fair few others who can as well.

The limited access divided highway approach was not the original idea for the Lakefront and, though, it may have seemed like a great idea at the time, the negatives outweigh the positives now.

Several ideas are out there to basically extend the urbanity of Michigan Avenue north into those sections of the Drive where front doors have a Lake Shore or Marine Drive address.

It is going to be a tough sell and it will require some surgically focused politicking but it can happen. We have to leave the world a better place when we leave.

I don't see that happening. Perhaps decking portions of the LSD to make something like NYC's High Line in places, but getting ride of lanes would merely drive north side traffic to the north-south neighborhood residential streets, like Sheridan and Broadway avenues, causing more traffic headaches.

[Innsertnamehere]

LSD services mostly inner city neighborhoods with excellent transit access - a lot of the traffic would either evaporate (i.e. turn into transit trips) or shift to the Interstate system further west.

I agree that completely eliminating LSD might not be prudent, but at the very least it could be vastly downscaled. Cutting it to 6 unseparated lanes with at-grade crossings would make a huge difference in the accessibility of the waterfront.

[Howard_L]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I don't see that happening. Perhaps decking portions of the LSD to make something like NYC's High Line in places, but getting ride of lanes would merely drive north side traffic to the north-south neighborhood residential streets, like Sheridan and Broadway avenues, causing more traffic headaches.

I am not sure about that because we don't have good data on source/destination pairs for Lake Shore auto traffic. Anecdotally, I find that ride share GPS often funnels traffic onto the Outer Drive because the algos are not Chicagoans and often the drivers are not from the city.

Also, I am not a fan of throwing dollars at increased infrastructure complexity (upfront costs and continued maintenance). In the residential parts of the Drive, it would be most cost effective to remove the motorway and rebuild crosswalks with stop lights, a la Michigan Ave or Wacker Drive (both very busy streets with high auto throughput yet with easy connections from one side to the other).

In other words, I am not convinced that continuing to prioritize auto traffic is the best solution to a problem which is caused by auto traffic.

Another anecdotal observation, during Bike the Drive, I saw no observable increase in traffic on neighboring streets.

[Howard_L]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Cutting it to 6 unseparated lanes with at-grade crossings would make a huge difference in the accessibility of the waterfront.

You just read my ... and many other residents' minds. Thanks for that.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

LSD services mostly inner city neighborhoods with excellent transit access - a lot of the traffic would either evaporate (i.e. turn into transit trips) or shift to the Interstate system further west.

I agree that completely eliminating LSD might not be prudent, but at the very least it could be vastly downscaled. Cutting it to 6 unseparated lanes with at-grade crossings would make a huge difference in the accessibility of the waterfront.

No, not accurate at all. Transit in the area is already fully utilized (ie. Red Line, at least pre-covid, along with the various express buses along LSD proper), and the Kennedy is way too far west to actually be able to take traffic off of LSD without causing extreme congestion along many neighborhood streets.

No reason not to integrate an actual bus-only lane, widen some of the existing bike and pedestrian trails and perhaps put in a few more underground/bridge crossings, especially in the downtown core. LSD is too important of a thoroughfare to severely cut back its traffic volume. And no, the traffic will not simply disappear. You can only add so much service to the Red Line, for instance.

Evaporating trips could occur when you have multiple potential alternatives for traffic to travel along. In this case, it's simply not the situation.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Howard_L

I am not sure about that because we don't have good data on source/destination pairs for Lake Shore auto traffic. Anecdotally, I find that ride share GPS often funnels traffic onto the Outer Drive because the algos are not Chicagoans and often the drivers are not from the city.

Also, I am not a fan of throwing dollars at increased infrastructure complexity (upfront costs and continued maintenance). In the residential parts of the Drive, it would be most cost effective to remove the motorway and rebuild crosswalks with stop lights, a la Michigan Ave or Wacker Drive (both very busy streets with high auto throughput yet with easy connections from one side to the other).

In other words, I am not convinced that continuing to prioritize auto traffic is the best solution to a problem which is caused by auto traffic.

Another anecdotal observation, during Bike the Drive, I saw no observable increase in traffic on neighboring streets.

Sure, on a SUNDAY. I dare anyone to see what shutting down LSD on a weekday would do to traffic (PEOPLE) flow in and out of the core, especially once more and more people actually are back working from their office and not from home.


Aaron (Glowrock)

[Howard_L]

Originally Posted by glowrock

Sure, on a SUNDAY.

Fair point. Sundays do see fewer motorists. I would still challenge the prioritization of auto trips, especially since, as I pointed out, we don't have good data on source/destination pairs.

The question that I still want to stress is why the Lakefront has been deprecated to an auto corridor when most cities in the world would love to have an amenity like this. I might add that the emphasis on a limited access highway has also limited resident access to this amenity.

This puzzles me.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by glowrock

No, not accurate at all. Transit in the area is already fully utilized (ie. Red Line, at least pre-covid, along with the various express buses along LSD proper), and the Kennedy is way too far west to actually be able to take traffic off of LSD without causing extreme congestion along many neighborhood streets.

No reason not to integrate an actual bus-only lane, widen some of the existing bike and pedestrian trails and perhaps put in a few more underground/bridge crossings, especially in the downtown core. LSD is too important of a thoroughfare to severely cut back its traffic volume. And no, the traffic will not simply disappear. You can only add so much service to the Red Line, for instance.

Evaporating trips could occur when you have multiple potential alternatives for traffic to travel along. In this case, it's simply not the situation.

Aaron (Glowrock)

There is literally a 4-track subway line running up through Lincoln Park, which then splits into two different lines further north servicing the area.. The Red Line may be the busiest line in Chicago, but it's really not all that busy by global standards (or even other subway networks in the US / Canada, or even how busy the Red Line was historically), and is having a bunch of money invested in it to improve it right now.

A downgrade to a 6-lane arterial would cut the capacity of maybe 2-3,000 vehicles in peak hour... no reason that the Red / Brown lines can't absorb another 1-2,000 peak hour passengers. That's 2-3 trains an hour of additional demand.

Regarding the Kennedy, it's not even 5 miles east at it's furthest. It's not that far, especially for someone driving, and considering that most people using LSD would be originating from destinations closer to the Kennedy than LSD is, and those closest to LSD would likely just keep using the replacement 6-lane arterial.

I've discussed this generally on this board elsewhere but Chicago has an insane amount of automotive capacity in and out of it's core, probably more than basically any other older urban city on the planet. The only other cities on earth with more automotive capacity in and out are probably LA, Dallas, and Houston, and, well, they are vastly, vastly different cities in terms of available transit infrastructure and wider built form. It has relatively low transit ridership compared to it's built form as a result as well. There is lots of space to cut a bit of that capacity where it is most offensive to the urban form, particularly LSD which basically exclusively services inner city dense neighbourhoods which are not only well served by transit but which are appropriately built to support it.

[Howard_L]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

<snip> ... and considering that most people using LSD would be originating from destinations closer to the Kennedy than LSD ...<pins>

This is also my gut feeling but I have no data to support my hunch.

The number of us on Lake Shore who don't drive or (like me) don't even own a license is a curiosity .... where are the motorists coming from every morning?

If you have any leads with groups which do source/destination mapping, please share.

I am sure that such data would be revealing.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Howard_L

This is also my gut feeling but I have no data to support my hunch.

The number of us on Lake Shore who don't drive or (like me) don't even own a license is a curiosity .... where are the motorists coming from every morning?

If you have any leads with groups which do source/destination mapping, please share.

I am sure that such data would be revealing.

I have friends who live in Edgewater who drive downtown to visit, even though they spend a huge amount of time finding cheap or free parking and might have to walk 20 minutes over... I never understood why. I guess some people are just used to driving and and don't think about other modes.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

There is literally a 4-track subway line running up through Lincoln Park, which then splits into two different lines further north servicing the area.. The Red Line may be the busiest line in Chicago, but it's really not all that busy by global standards (or even other subway networks in the US / Canada, or even how busy the Red Line was historically), and is having a bunch of money invested in it to improve it right now.

A downgrade to a 6-lane arterial would cut the capacity of maybe 2-3,000 vehicles in peak hour... no reason that the Red / Brown lines can't absorb another 1-2,000 peak hour passengers. That's 2-3 trains an hour of additional demand.

Regarding the Kennedy, it's not even 5 miles east at it's furthest. It's not that far, especially for someone driving, and considering that most people using LSD would be originating from destinations closer to the Kennedy than LSD is, and those closest to LSD would likely just keep using the replacement 6-lane arterial.

I've discussed this generally on this board elsewhere but Chicago has an insane amount of automotive capacity in and out of it's core, probably more than basically any other older urban city on the planet. The only other cities on earth with more automotive capacity in and out are probably LA, Dallas, and Houston, and, well, they are vastly, vastly different cities in terms of available transit infrastructure and wider built form. It has relatively low transit ridership compared to it's built form as a result as well. There is lots of space to cut a bit of that capacity where it is most offensive to the urban form, particularly LSD which basically exclusively services inner city dense neighbourhoods which are not only well served by transit but which are appropriately built to support it.

Have you actually lived there and taken the transit? The red line is super crowded on rush hours and many commuters take the express buses that go on lakeshore drive, which can also be also super crowded during rush hours. I am not sure where you get the assertion that Chicago has more auto capacity than most other urban cities in the US. Plus Chicago is not really an old city compared to the east coast as it did not start growing until the mid 1800s. I don't think north LSD really needs to improve access to the lake as there are viaducts to get to the lake and parks on Lake Michigan. If anything, perhaps south Lake Shore Drive, especially past Hyde Park and the Midway Plaisance, could accommodate some of the more pedestrian-friendly changes as it seemed to me that it was more difficult to access the lakefront from the south side than the north side.

[Howard_L]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I don't think north LSD really needs to improve access to the lake as there are viaducts to get to the lake and parks on Lake Michigan.

This is actually one of the exact points that I have been raising.

We, in fact, don't have access to the Lake. Residents of Lake Shore Drive live in a park desert.

An informal study which I did compared Humboldt Park access to Lincoln Park access from adjacent properties.

For HP, you walk out your front door, walk to the next corner, cross the street, be it on Kedzie, California, Division, or North, and you are in the park. (truth be told, North is not as transparent a street as the others).

For LV, you have to walk significantly farther and navigate a tangle of outdated infrastructure.

If any are curious, I can post the maps I made but living on Lake Shore does not mean that you have access to or are connected to the lake shore.

[Six Corners]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

A downgrade to a 6-lane arterial would cut the capacity of maybe 2-3,000 vehicles in peak hour... no reason that the Red / Brown lines can't absorb another 1-2,000 peak hour passengers. That's 2-3 trains an hour of additional demand.

It's not a question of can they, but will they. Can we run trains with shorter headways that will comfortably offset capacity reductions on LSD? Sure. Are those people going to take the trains? Probably not. At the very least you can't assume everyone is going elsewhere in the city where transit is relatively easy to use. Most likely many are traveling outside the city to the suburbs where there are significant last mile issues.

Regarding the Kennedy, it's not even 5 miles east at it's furthest. It's not that far, especially for someone driving, and considering that most people using LSD would be originating from destinations closer to the Kennedy than LSD is, and those closest to LSD would likely just keep using the replacement 6-lane arterial.

In a different post you advocated for un-dividing LSD in the northern bits and putting in at-grade crossings, which I'm normally in strong favor of. However, there are currently five at-grade crossings between Monroe and Roosevelt on LSD and it's not uncommon for pedestrians to get hit trying to cross them by drivers not obeying the traffic laws. Furthermore, this is what the Kennedy looks like on any day of the week between roughly 6 am and 10 pm on weekdays and 10 am to midnight on weekends: (https://goo.gl/maps/z9xnyZXDG18YtFpz9). It's routinely among the top 3 most congested highways in the US. If you force people to choose between that and a slower LSD (knowing that not everyone is going to just up and switch to transit), I think most will still find LSD with at-grade crossings to be the better alternative but begin taking more aggressive actions to make it through the at-grade crossings without having to stop at a red light, thus leading to crashes with pedestrians or cyclists involved.



Personally, as a frequent user of the lakefront, I prefer the underpasses to the at-grade crossings. They're safer and they're less of a barrier than your standard interstate underpass.