Downtown Calling: Working from home didn't work for me

[pdxtex]

Congrats on the new gig.

[MayDay]

Congrats on the new job, Steely. I’m probably in the minority, but I’ve loved WFH - my company has moved to a hybrid setup but if I had to choose, it would be WFH. Full disclosure, I don’t have kids, my Pug mostly sleeps all day and I live one mile south of downtown Cleveland in a 2,500 square foot house (aka no distractions, ample space for a dedicated office, my husband and I have similar schedules, an approximate 5-10 minute commute and yes I know I’m fortunate).

I get along well with my immediate team and outside of that, everyone is friendly but not like in my 20s when we’d all go out after work for happy hour and I’m okay with that. I mean, I grew up in the 70s/80s near Youngstown when the steel industry collapsed and my Dad bought a TRS-80 computer and said “this is what jobs will be in the future, figure it out.” Soooo for me, WFH is like tinkering around with a much better computer and getting paid for it. A lot of my coworkers, especially the sales team were crawling out of their skin because they missed the social interaction and while I enjoy occasional banter, I learned a long time ago to be okay being on my own. When it comes to work, self discipline has never been an issue for me, being in design/marketing, it’s really evident if someone slacks off. I definitely do not miss the “drive by” projects in the office where a self entitled rando interrupts me at my desk with some fire drill they didn’t plan for appropriately. I also love not having to cram all the household things into a few hours in the evening, or reserve appointments for the weekend.

I’m more productive working remote especially when it involves collaboration; as a graphic designer, when I can remote into the meeting with the project pulled up and make edits in real time, it’s so much more efficient. When I do go into the office, it’s twice a week and I don’t know, it feels special but odd. Special because it’s enough of a break to notice the progress of the new buildings going up, and my husband and I block our calendars so we see each other for lunch. It’s weird and good to see a few people but with the hybrid setup, where there used to be 100 people on the floor, there’s now 10-15. One thing I’ve observed - downtown is still recovering but the increase in downtown residents makes it feel less dystopian. Not that there’s throngs of people everywhere and sure there are some dead zones but the foot traffic is noticeably improving. Some retail spots have closed but others have opened up, and there’s always been some seasonal flux so this spring and summer will be interesting.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Mtphilly

I prefer working in the office mostly because I like to keep my personal life and work life separate and I find it difficult to work at home because I get easily distracted and will take a nap, do laundry, or watch tv when I should be working.

BULLSEYE!

and i think that plays a huge part in the divergence between those of us who hate WFH and those who love it.

i am just 100% terrible at mixing business with pleasure.

i need the guardrails of a clean break and a rigid schedule to get my shit done, otherwise it's just "i'll do that shit later".

and "later" never arrives.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

BULLSEYE!

and i think that plays a huge part in the divergence between those of us who hate WFH and those who love it.

i am just 100% terrible at mixing business with pleasure.

i need the guardrails of a clean break and a rigid schedule to get my shit done, otherwise it's just "i'll do that shit later".

and "later" never arrives.

Yeah I think it’s definitely good for some people to be able to go in. My wife is permanently remote and says she loves it. But also ends up sitting at her desk until 8pm unless we have plans to do something. She’s just not good at separating work and home life. Meanwhile I’ll have my work phone on me but unless it’s super urgent won’t answer anything after 5:30 or so until the next morning. I also take breaks during the day to go on walks or bike rides when work is slow.

[dktshb]

If I had to work in the office 5 days a week it would be a deal breaker for me. We did the WFH for 1 1/2 years then went to a 2-day in office schedule and now we are on a 3-day Mon-Wed in office schedule, which is a good compromise for me. I like the couple extra hours I get on my WFH days and when I am in the office I am much more distracted by my co-workers even though I really do enjoy seeing them.

[Steely Dan]

Man, I love being back downtown again!

You walk outside to grab some lunch and BOOM!

mid-century masterpiece is right there!

[twinpeaks]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Man, I love being back downtown again!

You walk outside to grab some lunch and BOOM!

mid-century masterpiece says is right there!

They closed our office in Downtown SF and moved to Mission Bay next to Chase Center. I miss working in downtown with all amenities, shopping and option to meet other people/friends for lunch or break.

[sentinel]

Here's the deal: mileage may vary, and at the end of the day, the pandemic made me and millions of others realize that you do not need to be in an office environment 5 days a week to get your work done efficiently and in a timely manner. To anyone who believes otherwise, great! If you need to be in an actual office to do your work, there is nothing wrong with that. But frankly, it is not necessary, and a global pandemic proved that.

I and my entire office worked remotely for literally 2 full years, 03/16/2020 until 03/15/2022. We were all in constant communication via Teams, and met when we needed to, and still supported each other fully whenever required, while still getting our work done efficiently.

Also, nearly all of us saved time, money, gas and other expenses by not having to commute into a downtown office setting, whether 20-30 minutes, or an hour or more each way. I and everyone in my company was able to get started a lot earlier and end the day much earlier because there was no traffic to deal with.

I personally lost 40+ lbs because I was eating better at home, and not spending ridiculous amounts of money each week eating food that was delicious and definitely not healthy for me.

Yes, working from home is not for everyone, some people, like Steely, like and need the face-to-face interaction. I personally, do not, and it took a global pandemic to prove that to me and everyone in my company. Am I a hermit, or anti-social? Absolutely not, and quite the opposite, because more than anything, I value my personal time A LOT, and the efficiencies of working from home outweighed any time or experienced gained in-office.

I'm glad many people are back in the office and that business districts around the world are getting back to 'normal'...but because of what happened around the world, I think it's absolutely vital to question what is 'normal', and not lose the narrative that 'only working in a formal office setting' is the best way to work. That is bullshit, and millions of people around the world had that awakening during the pandemic.

What is most important moving forward is that I HOPE and pray that companies realize that hybrid setups and yes, even staying fulling remote are just as fulfilling, efficient and productive as being in an office.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

BULLSEYE!

and i think that plays a huge part in the divergence between those of us who hate WFH and those who love it.

i am just 100% terrible at mixing business with pleasure.

i need the guardrails of a clean break and a rigid schedule to get my shit done, otherwise it's just "i'll do that shit later".

and "later" never arrives.

And you weren't able to do that working from home? Not a criticism, just a question. And what about people that are not that way?

I guess my biggest issue with this entire thread is that there is this assumption or mentality that one-type/size-fits-all for all types of employees, and pandemic WFH setups smashed that narrative to bits.

Anecdotally, the people that I know personally that absolutely HATED working from home were parents with small children that had to balance working, and their children's schooling, and yes, those situations were absolutely miserable for the people I personally know. Not because people hated being around their families, but because it was an utterly exhausting situation for those families in those situations.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by sentinel

And you weren't able to do that working from home?

No.

I found WFH to be way too full of procrastination-inducing distraction.

I WFH'd for almost three years.

Fucking hated it.

Never again.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by Mtphilly

I prefer working in the office mostly because I like to keep my personal life and work life separate and I find it difficult to work at home because I get easily distracted and will take a nap, do laundry, or watch tv when I should be working.

Right now my situation is perfect, I go into the office but it’s mostly empty on most days. I can focus because there aren’t a lot of other people around distracting me and I’m at a desk with just my work stuff with no way to easily start doing personal things during work hours.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

BULLSEYE!

and i think that plays a huge part in the divergence between those of us who hate WFH and those who love it.

i am just 100% terrible at mixing business with pleasure.

i need the guardrails of a clean break and a rigid schedule to get my shit done, otherwise it's just "i'll do that shit later".

and "later" never arrives.

It's like you guys are shining a spotlight on my ADHD. I get a lot more done in a physical workplace for a lot of similar reasons. People saying you should just be able to focus at home might as well be saying that you should be able to be six inches taller.

Originally Posted by sentinel

And you weren't able to do that working from home? Not a criticism, just a question. And what about people that are not that way?

I guess my biggest issue with this entire thread is that there is this assumption or mentality that one-type/size-fits-all for all types of employees, and pandemic WFH setups smashed that narrative to bits.

This thread is about one person's preference for working away from home. Nobody's making the case that one size fits all for all types of employees.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

LOL I said these virtual business platforms are much more efficient use of time than in person meetings. These platforms are also sufficient for communication between two co workers. It's a state of mind that one needs to be physical swapping oxygen. The disadvantage of working virtually from home is not being able to hang out with co workers outside the office. However, the advantage of work from home is that one has more opportunity to hang out with neighbours. It's a wash.

Virtual business platforms don't replace informal face to face contact with coworkers. Again, I'm not talking about meetings. I'm talking about all the little conversations that you have with coworkers - brainstorming an issue, resolving a technical problem, bouncing ideas off each other. Each one might last no more than a minute or two, the kind of thing that's natural when someone is sitting next to you but isn't worth the bother of a Zoom call.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by sentinel

Anecdotally, the people that I know personally that absolutely HATED working from home were parents with small children that had to balance working, and their children's schooling, and yes, those situations were absolutely miserable for the people I personally know. Not because people hated being around their families, but because it was an utterly exhausting situation for those families in those situations.

No, the issue was that kids weren't doing in-person schooling, and daycares were closed, and nannies and grandparents couldn't be caregivers. So parents had to simultaneously work and parent and educate.

I've never heard of a parent who lamented being home during the peak of the pandemic. 100% WFH was a gift from God for parents. Just ask parents who continued to work the old ways during the pandemic. Total shitshow. Ask any nurse, doc, cop, etc.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Virtual business platforms don't replace informal face to face contact with coworkers. Again, I'm not talking about meetings. I'm talking about all the little conversations that you have with coworkers - brainstorming an issue, resolving a technical problem, bouncing ideas off each other. Each one might last no more than a minute or two, the kind of thing that's natural when someone is sitting next to you but isn't worth the bother of a Zoom call.

A Zoom/Teams msg. is much easier/faster than getting up from a desk and walking to someone who may/may not wish to be bothered. I don't see any functional disadvantage.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Mister F

This thread is about one person's preference for working away from home. Nobody's making the case that one size fits all for all types of employees.

Exactly.

I thought the thread title was pretty fucking clear, but I guess not.

I started this thread because I was so excited to finally have an office job downtown again.

If you love your WFH gig, more power to you.

I hated mine.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Virtual business platforms don't replace informal face to face contact with coworkers. Again, I'm not talking about meetings. I'm talking about all the little conversations that you have with coworkers - brainstorming an issue, resolving a technical problem, bouncing ideas off each other. Each one might last no more than a minute or two, the kind of thing that's natural when someone is sitting next to you but isn't worth the bother of a Zoom call.

To be blunt, it is these exact type of little conversations that make so many introverts and flow people never want to go back to the office. What extroverts see as casual "bouncing ideas" to introverts is often experienced as uninvited distractions and repetitive flow disruptions.

I'm not talking about being antisocial or shunning personal engagement. But I live inside my head when I'm deep in work, and taking me out of a flow state that takes a good 30 minutes to get back to just so I can offer some tepid feedback on something totally fucking unrelated to what I was just ripped from focusing on is. so. frustrating.

Open offices seem purposefully designed by extroverts to solely facilitate the extrovert style of communication. Which more often than not is just "Hey, never mind whatever you're doing and pay attention to my thing RIGHT NOW."

[llamaorama]

I wonder if most people are truly extroverted or introverted by default or if it’s conditioned.

My whole adult career life has been in settings where you get interrupted and have to deal with it, whether in an office or at home or otherwise.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Exactly.

I thought the thread title was pretty fucking clear, but I guess not.

I started this thread because I was so excited to finally have an office job downtown again.

If you love your WFH gig, more power to you.

I hated mine.

Yes I do, but I'm also sorry you hated yours, and I get it, from so many perspectives, like I previously stated.

Like I said, I'm happy things are going back to the way they were pre-Covid, especially work environments, I don't know why that's misunderstood.

[MonkeyRonin]

What I gather from all of these WFH debates is that there are maybe 25% or so of people who prefer working from home all the time; another 25% or so who prefer working from the office all the time; and then the 50% who like to do a bit of both. And aside from person to person, it also varies very much from job to job or workplace to workplace.

Either way, I think we can all agree that nothing beats the flexibility of having both options available at any time and getting to make the decision for yourself as to what works best for you. Companies that don't provide this sort of flexibility going forward - one way or the other - are the ones that are going to be in trouble.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I wonder if most people are truly extroverted or introverted by default or if it’s conditioned.

That's a big point of contention still, as I understand it. Probably a combo of both genetics and environment, but at what ratio? No idea. I think typology in general doesn't work well for people, but I'm also the personality type (INTJ) which apparently is most skeptical of typologies and personality types.

Originally Posted by llamaorama

My whole adult career life has been in settings where you get interrupted and have to deal with it, whether in an office or at home or otherwise.

Same with me, until the pandemic. I thought I hated corporate office work and didn't like myself for doing it anyways for the money. Now I realize that I actually like the work a lot; I just hated the office part of corporate office work.

[Acajack]

As a boss of sorts (but not one who decides where employees will ultimately do their work - home or office or both), I have to say that the hybrid option might be employee preference, but it's not really optimal from an employer's perspective.

Hybrid is basically like being half-pregnant. You have to pay for office space that isn't necessarily optimally used all the time, you need to set up videoconferencing capacity because you have meetings where half the people are in the office and half are at home, you need either closed offices or more meeting rooms for these meetings (as opposed to an open-concept cubicle set-up)...

I am also not entirely convinced that staff truly are more efficient when working from home. In spite of what is being very frequently claimed these days.

I suspect there is a huge YMMV factor.

Sure, if someone has very minimal contact with colleagues have them work from home.

But I am really not convinced that people whose daily work involves lots of meetings and interactions with colleagues from the same organization are more productive at home.