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  #7081  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
But I am not sure the dust has settled to where proof of vaccination falls under the same scope as requiring shoes and shirt legally. I hope it does so we can go out and have peace of mind while we're out eating that Kovid "I have an immune system" Karen won't sitting behind us spreading her funk all over the place.
The dust never settles on legal issues, and when it comes to proof of vaccination specifically, the red states are going to insinuate the GQP anti-vax agenda into private business decisions regarding setting and enforcing rules for staff and customers on their premises. Many states, however, will not likely carve out a special exception for anti-vaxxers.
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  #7082  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 10:15 AM
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The UK government has singled out France (and only France) to still have a quarantine requirement for vaccinated people, despite their case rate being lower (which doesn’t really matter in a post vaccine world anyway).

Supposedly because there are cases of the “beta” (South African) variant, which is also irrelevant because this was long ago usurped by delta in the UK. Really I suspect it’s about this incompetent, nationalist government wanting to point a finger across the Channel and say “look over there, scary foreigners!”.

I really hate the whole Baby Boomer generation. I was indifferent before Covid, now I just want them all to die as soon as possible.
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  #7083  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 12:26 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Anyone who gets very sick or dies cares.

Your argument boils down to how many lives "matter"?

And you can't bar the consideration of variants. It's critical to the reasoning of nearly all virology and epidemiology experts who are concerned about how we are currently dealing with the virus. That you don't understand that makes me very disappointed in your medical expertise.
I actually think it is you who isn’t thinking rationally. There is no evidence whatsoever that death rates are rising for the vaccinated. There is no evidence whatsoever that new variants are going to be more deadly than the original variant, against the vaccinated population. I pay attention to data, not my worst fears. I recommend you do the same.
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  #7084  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Maybe that’s a Texas thing. I’ve also been living in a country where the drinking age is 18 for the last 8+ years.
I get carded on occasion too. I figured it was because of my stunning looks!

Grocery items:
Spinach, eggs, loaf of bread, cheese, pasta, tomato, onion, tortillas, salmon, ground turkey, toothpaste...1 bottle of RED WINE.

Cashier be like:

tenor

Cashier: "Do you have your ID on ya?"

Me thinking in my head: "Yeah, do you think I'm 20 and trying to get wasted off 1 bottle of wine and sneak it by you with all of these household groceries on my way to a frat house party?"
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  #7085  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 5:43 PM
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I almost never get carded in Canada, and I’m fairly certain the only times in the last decade were at sporting events. The liquor store will very occasionally card my wife but never me weirdly enough. When I travel to the US it seems pretty common though - almost every bar or liquor store has asked me to show ID at least once. The only place I’ve been with some frequency that seemed more lax was New Orleans, which maybe shouldn’t be surprising.

I’m 38 with a thick beard and somewhat thinning hair, FWIW. If I was under 21 it would be a sad state of affairs.
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  #7086  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
I really hate the whole Baby Boomer generation. I was indifferent before Covid, now I just want them all to die as soon as possible.

I used to think of you as a charming narcissist and I’ve always enjoyed your posts. Then with COVID, the charm melted away and your narcissism became something darker. Several months ago, I stopped searching out your posts for their erudition; but instead for the deep, soul-satisfying schadenfreude of reading about your pathetic suffering. There’s nothing quite like the joy that comes from the tears of a psychopath. Keep the posts coming!
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  #7087  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
The UK government has singled out France (and only France) to still have a quarantine requirement for vaccinated people, despite their case rate being lower (which doesn’t really matter in a post vaccine world anyway).

Supposedly because there are cases of the “beta” (South African) variant, which is also irrelevant because this was long ago usurped by delta in the UK. Really I suspect it’s about this incompetent, nationalist government wanting to point a finger across the Channel and say “look over there, scary foreigners!”.

I really hate the whole Baby Boomer generation. I was indifferent before Covid, now I just want them all to die as soon as possible.
Assuming you're an angst ridden millennial; your parents, aunts, uncles, etc are most likely Boomers. How dare people get older become more susceptible to illness and still be allowed in participate society.
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  #7088  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 6:57 PM
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The Patrick Bateman vibe has only increased over time.
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  #7089  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Three Lawmakers Who Fled Texas to Block GOP Voting Laws Test Positive for Covid-19
By Siobhan Hughes
July 17, 2021 5:55 pm ET

WASHINGTON—Three Democratic state lawmakers who left Texas to prevent the GOP-controlled legislature from enacting stricter voting laws have tested positive for the coronavirus, the Texas House Democratic Caucus said on Saturday.

One tested positive on Friday night and informed the rest of the caucus. Two others tested positive on Saturday using a rapid test. All three were fully vaccinated, the group said. Other members and staff have taken rapid tests as well . . . .
https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-l...19-11626558946
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  #7090  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Assuming you're an angst ridden millennial; your parents, aunts, uncles, etc are most likely Boomers. How dare people get older become more susceptible to illness and still be allowed in participate society.
It's close to time to ignore him. Covid or something is clearly driving him insane.
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  #7091  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 10:41 PM
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Canada has now reached 70% vaccination of the total population receiving at least 1 dose (80% for those over 12 years old) and continues to be one of the few countries where R is still below 1.0 with new cases now below 400 a day and deaths now below 10 a day




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  #7092  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 11:41 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
What was the point of this post, Howard?

Nobody gives a fiddler’s fuck if a vaccinated person can get Covid. We are way past that. Point is, nobody’s getting serious ill or dying.

Now back to our regular programming: counting global cases of the common cold.

By the way, while you are whittling your golden years away sheltering in your basement, I dined with my managers, went to a bar, and now will be enjoying sushi at a restaurant with my level headed octogenarian vaccinated parents at an indoor restaurant.
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  #7093  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2021, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
What was the point of this post, Howard?

Nobody gives a fiddler’s fuck if a vaccinated person can get Covid. We are way past that. Point is, nobody’s getting serious ill or dying.

Now back to our regular programming: counting global cases of the common cold.

By the way, while you are whittling your golden years away sheltering in your basement, I dined with my managers, went to a bar, and now will be enjoying sushi at a restaurant with my level headed octogenarian vaccinated parents at an indoor restaurant.
So why are you such a bitter sourpuss after enjoying life so much? And why would you even comment on a post you don't care about?

FYI I went out to eat yesterday too at one of San Francisco's better Italian restaurants (a Mano). I'm not that much of a sushi fan in spite of having lived in Japan.

I'm wondering if I'll ever eat indoors again, given the option of eating outdoors in the pleasant climates where I spend my time. I just love the outdoor venues that almost all SF places now have. Enjoy the stuffy indoors in a Chicago winter.
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  #7094  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 1:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Anyone who gets very sick or dies cares.

Your argument boils down to how many lives "matter"?

And you can't bar the consideration of variants. It's critical to the reasoning of nearly all virology and epidemiology experts who are concerned about how we are currently dealing with the virus. That you don't understand that makes me very disappointed in your medical expertise.
Why would we care more about people's lives than they manifestly care about their own lives themselves, if they choose to go against all of the advice and don't get vaccinated?

(Not talking about the tiny number of people who can't get vaccinated due to medical reasons.)
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  #7095  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 2:14 AM
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Why would we care more about people's lives than they manifestly care about their own lives themselves, if they choose to go against all of the advice and don't get vaccinated?

(Not talking about the tiny number of people who can't get vaccinated due to medical reasons.)
My response was to an argument that didn't start when vaccines became available. If it had, I might even agree with it. But 10023 and his fanboys were objecting to public health measures like business closure, masks and the rest from Spring 2020. So there was no option to get vaccinated when they started arguing their ability to go to the gym or dine indoors or belly up to a bar trumped whatever amount of death was happening around them.

You may, if you read many of my recent posts, note that I am currently a fan of the "herd immunity" option among the unvaccinated. That is, if they won't protect themselves (as they now can but couldn't until this spring), then let the virus give them natural immunity whatever the consequences. However we do it, I want as many people as possible to cease being susceptible hosts for this virus. That way we can reduce the number of cases to a manageable one such that public health measures like contact tracing and isolation can finally work.
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  #7096  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 6:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
My response was to an argument that didn't start when vaccines became available. If it had, I might even agree with it. But 10023 and his fanboys were objecting to public health measures like business closure, masks and the rest from Spring 2020. So there was no option to get vaccinated when they started arguing their ability to go to the gym or dine indoors or belly up to a bar trumped whatever amount of death was happening around them.
Do you personally have a limit though as to what is an acceptable level of public safety relative to economic damage? I'm not sure how much U.S. federal debt is attributable directly to Covid but I would have to guess it's not insignificant. I just wonder if major developed countries do start to face austerity measures in the not to far future whether we will look back at some of these actions as catalysts.
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  #7097  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 7:28 AM
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Do you personally have a limit though as to what is an acceptable level of public safety relative to economic damage? I'm not sure how much U.S. federal debt is attributable directly to Covid but I would have to guess it's not insignificant. I just wonder if major developed countries do start to face austerity measures in the not to far future whether we will look back at some of these actions as catalysts.
Well that seems to be a 2-part question: (1) What public health measures to take and (2) What measures the government should take to help those adversely affected.

Prior to vaccine availability, I favored closing "non-essential" indoor activities and that would include bars, clubs serving alcohol and indoor dining. Grocery stores obviously couldn't be closed nor other stores selling things where people enter, grab what they want, pay and leave. It's really services where customers necessarily linger that were problematic.

Now that there's a vaccine, if it were up to me, I'd require vaccination for entry to those same indoor services. I don't think at this point I'd require anything to be closed but besides indoor services, I'd require vaccination for entry to indoor entertainment and sports venues and other activities, more or less as France is doing.

Then the question is what should government be doing about those affected. I favored extra federal unemployment benefits (in the US, that's $600/wk until September). But I did NOT favor sending extra checks to everybody below a certain income. Most of those were below that income before covid and will be after covid and their need is independent of covid. Rather than send out such checks to individuals, the government probably should have provided more assistance to small business owners forced to close (as far as I understand it, in the US they just got loans, not grants). I'd have to know more to approve of things like airline bailouts: My understanding is that Delta and Southwest would have survived covid regardless, but United might not and I'm uncertain about American. These airlines were NOT forced to quit flying remember--it's just nobody wanted to fly.

I do believe the Biden Administration has been taking advantage of the covid situation to implement a certain amount of left wing wet dream stuff. I mean they gave local governments so much money that most of them can't spend it all on anything related to covid and are now being asked to spend it on police (how ironic THAT!).

Covid-related spending so far has been $3 trillion ( https://www.usaspending.gov/disaster/covid-19 ). The US federal debt is now on the order of 100% of GDP. That's a lot though less than some other developed countries still. But I think it's time to call a halt and the Biden $3.5 trillion social spending proposal (which he calls "infrastructure") is a step too far. The US does badly need infrastructure spending and I think we should be spending more on roads, bridges, broadband, water projects, climate change stuff like flooding prevention on the coasts, transit and high speed rail. But the $3.5 trillion isn't for that--I'd take a $1 trillion of the 3.5 and add it to the $1 trillion actually for infrastructure and make it $2 trillion and pass it.
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  #7098  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 12:49 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Do you personally have a limit though as to what is an acceptable level of public safety relative to economic damage? I'm not sure how much U.S. federal debt is attributable directly to Covid but I would have to guess it's not insignificant. I just wonder if major developed countries do start to face austerity measures in the not to far future whether we will look back at some of these actions as catalysts.
Judging by the posts of some people here, obsessed about case rates of a virus that will be with us in perpetuity, there is clearly a lack of true deliberation happening. Those folks are not coming to terms with the reality that this is a condition with no end in sight.

At some point you really need to just stop counting and live your life. Life is too short.

In 1000 years, if humans are still around, Covid and it’s descendent variants will still be swimming amongst our population. The sooner you realize this the sooner the mental healing happens.
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  #7099  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Judging by the posts of some people here, obsessed about case rates of a virus that will be with us in perpetuity, there is clearly a lack of true deliberation happening. Those folks are not coming to terms with the reality that this is a condition with no end in sight.

At some point you really need to just stop counting and live your life. Life is too short.

In 1000 years, if humans are still around, Covid and it’s descendent variants will still be swimming amongst our population. The sooner you realize this the sooner the mental healing happens.
Naturally, you are missing the point. The point is do we want it to be like polio when I was a child and there were hospitals full of children in "iron lungs" or do we want it to be like now when polio is a rare condition mostly limited to the developing world because in the developed world most kids are vaccinated.

As with covid, I remember the time before there was a vaccine (which is perhaps where you are lacking--you don't remember all the pre-vaccine diseases I do). Every summer, swimming pools in major metros were closed and playgrounds and kids were sent home because of polio outbreaks. Those public health measures were all we had but they were taken. The only difference from covid is that covid is spread in more different environments and so more environments have to be shuttered when it is at high prevalence.

Quote:
Polio Once Caused Widespread Panic
In the late 1940s, polio outbreaks in the U.S. increased in frequency and size, disabling an average of more than 35,000 people each year. Parents were frightened to let their children go outside, especially in the summer when the virus seemed to peak. Travel and commerce between affected cities were sometimes restricted. Public health officials imposed quarantines (used to separate and restrict the movement of well people who may have been exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become ill) on homes and towns where polio cases were diagnosed.
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/polio-us.html
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  #7100  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2021, 6:44 PM
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^ The flaw is yours. Not every virus will have have a vaccine that eliminates the virus in its entirety. Influenza as one example.

Covid is here to stay.

Hide in your basement all you want. The world must go on
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