Pinal County Project News

[SunDevil]

I don't think Musk has a thing against AZ or that it was a "mistake" to locate in the Reno area. It's much easier to control your labor when they don't really have many other options. You think the factory in Reno is going to unionize and risk losing the factory (and their jobs) altogether? It would be back to the service industry unless you want to relocate. He's well known for pushing the limits on his labor and for being anti-union. Reno seems like a perfect place for that.

I don't want to single him out though. You don't think other manufacturers have factories in small/smaller towns out of benevolence, do you? Hyundai and Kia have huge plants just outside Montgomery, AL for the same reasons.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

I don't think Musk has a thing against AZ or that it was a "mistake" to locate in the Reno area. It's much easier to control your labor when they don't really have many other options. You think the factory in Reno is going to unionize and risk losing the factory (and their jobs) altogether? It would be back to the service industry unless you want to relocate. He's well known for pushing the limits on his labor and for being anti-union. Reno seems like a perfect place for that.

I don't want to single him out though. You don't think other manufacturers have factories in small/smaller towns out of benevolence, do you? Hyundai and Kia have huge plants just outside Montgomery, AL for the same reasons.

Nevada is not the kind of state you would go to to avoid unions.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Nevada is not the kind of state you would go to to avoid unions.

Yeah, not in the Las Vegas area, but, Reno?

I guess I am saying that it's easier to retain workers or change local laws by threatening to leave a smaller town (metro) than in a large one.

[combusean]

Tesla isn't here for a few reasons:

- Reno is closer to Tesla's headquarters on the SF Peninsula and their East Bay factory
- Reno is already a back office/warehouse for the Bay Area like the West Valley is for Los Angeles. Lots of Reno residents have ties to the Bay Area, the economies are fairly well tied together.
- Nevada offered Tesla a massive subsidy that would have probably not flown in Arizona although I can't remember if anything was ever discussed in AZ.
- I recall Musk having a beef with Arizona over immigrant rights and SB1070 as Musk is an immigrant from South Africa

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Yeah, not in the Las Vegas area, but, Reno?

I guess I am saying that it's easier to retain workers or change local laws by threatening to leave a smaller town (metro) than in a large one.

Labor laws are state level not local, at least not significantly. Unions are very powerful in Nevada due to Casinos.

Your argument about being the only big fish in a small pond in general speaks a little true but its not 100% negative, Its great when companies are willing to grow in smaller towns and cities as they are far more vital to those people and the health of those towns than a Giga-factory in the Sprawl of Southern Cal or Dallas/Ft. Worth.

Employment isn't always exploitive its more often than not mutually beneficial.

And this is not even getting into the fact that Reno-Sparks isn't that small (500k people) that small and is home to plenty of tourism due to Lake Tahoe and the State Government which is an industry in and of itself.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by combusean

Tesla isn't here for a few reasons:

- Reno is closer to Tesla's headquarters on the SF Peninsula and their East Bay factory
- Reno is already a back office/warehouse for the Bay Area like the West Valley is for Los Angeles. Lots of Reno residents have ties to the Bay Area, the economies are fairly well tied together.
- Nevada offered Tesla a massive subsidy that would have probably not flown in Arizona although I can't remember if anything was ever discussed in AZ.
- I recall Musk having a beef with Arizona over immigrant rights and SB1070 as Musk is an immigrant from South Africa

Originally - Tesla was to have a factory similar to what is currently in Fremont located in Flagstaff, AZ. IIRC - it wasn’t SB1070 that killed that - it was assembly/quality problems for the Model S in Fremont that killed it. At that point Tesla took a look at their plans for assembly factories and just focused everything in Fremont until they could take care of issues with the Model S and get it out the door reliably.

After that point AZ was in the running for a Gigafactory - a site in Tucson was a front runner vs Reno - but you’re right - it was the subsidies and the train line that ran from Reno -> Bay Area that sealed that deal.

FWIW - they did say that AZ would be considered for ‘future development’ - but as we all know, none of that has happened as of yet.

Considering Flagstaff was in the running and is along train tracks/I-40 - it wouldn’t surprise me if we see Albuquerque get something before AZ did. Just cheaper to operate there and more labor friendly.

[Obadno]

Imagine thinking a relatively mundane state ID law from 10 years ago had any serious impact with a decision like building a factory.

All the hubub about 1070 was just partisan political bickering anyway, it had no lasting impact outside of the immediate political chicanery in the months surrounding its passage.

[KeltonR]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Imagine thinking a relatively mundane state ID law from 10 years ago had any serious impact with a decision like building a factory.

All the hubub about 1070 was just partisan political bickering anyway, it had no lasting impact outside of the immediate political chicanery in the months surrounding its passage.

Mundane? No. No impact? No. It’s easy to have that outlook when you are not targeted. It cost us our reputation, but it also created activism that helped Arizona move toward the center and affect a national election. Yes it was political, the worst kind of politics IMO. It set the stage for anti-immigrant policies of Arpaio and Trump to come.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by KeltonR

Mundane? No. No impact? No. It’s easy to have that outlook when you are not targeted. It cost us our reputation, but it also created activism that helped Arizona move toward the center and affect a national election. Yes it was political, the worst kind of politics IMO. It set the stage for anti-immigrant policies of Arpaio and Trump to come.

Lol quite the imagination. Please save the political fan-fiction for your own private discussions

[azliam]

Electric vehicle maker adds 2 Valley retail locations as it narrows search for manufacturing site

By Corina Vanek – Reporter, Phoenix Business Journal
Nov 17, 2020, 3:58pm MST

"Right now, the company makes the vehicles in China, but it is in the middle of the search for a manufacturing site in the United States. Rivera, who lives in Phoenix, said the company has narrowed the search to the greater Phoenix area and the greater Nashville area, and expects for the company to have a finalized decision in the next few weeks. Two Phoenix-area cities are in consideration: Mesa and Casa Grande."

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...Pos=8#cxrecs_s

[KeltonR]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Lol quite the imagination. Please save the political fan-fiction for your own private discussions

I’ll post any reasonable response I want. This is the typical dismissive tone you’re known for when you don’t agree. No need to be schooling anyone.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by KeltonR

I’ll post any reasonable response I want. This is the typical dismissive tone you’re known for when you don’t agree. No need to be schooling anyone.

Let me give ya some advice.

You can't possibly know what people think or what they believe, it would be foolish to assume anyone cares about the same things in the same way you do.

The decision on where to build a major factory is not unilateral, its made by probably dozens of people, and even though a guy like Musk gets the final say, I would not suspect he has particularly strong feelings about a 10 year old state law. Certainly not enough impact such a massive financial decision.

Hell he isn't even that political and to the extent he is he certainly isn't a "progressive", immigrant or not.

SB1070 might still weigh heavy on you and your particular social circles, but you shouldn't assume it does for other people (spoiler: It doesnt)

[combusean]

Ah yes, a bill that got Arizona boycotted left and right, made internnational news for all the wrong reasons, is "minor." You must have been living under a rock at the time.

My statement that this bill was part of the reason Musk doesn't do business here was not an opinion, that was a recollection of facts.

[Obadno]

International news is made every day and 99% of it disappears as fast as it arrives.

I really do not know what to say if you think the SB 1070 controversy 10 years on is impacting major business decisions, then your perspective is wildly out of touch with reality.

[combusean]

We were talking about why Reno has the gigafactory, a decision that was established many years ago.

I haven't said that matters now, who knows, maybe Musk changed his mind and his AZ in mind for some yet unannounced project. The flak from 1070 is largely gone but anyone with purse strings could still hold a grudge or have an inaccurate or dated perception of AZ.

[muertecaza]

More bad news for Nikola:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...ix/6462061002/

GM will no longer be buying into an equity stake in Nikola, and has cancelled its order for Nikola trucks. Agreement now seems to go the other way, with Nikola agreeing to use GM's existing tech in its future trucks.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

More bad news for Nikola:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...ix/6462061002/

GM will no longer be buying into an equity stake in Nikola, and has cancelled its order for Nikola trucks. Agreement now seems to go the other way, with Nikola agreeing to use GM's existing tech in its future trucks.

Prolly best for them to focus and get a product out there on the road 100% before branching out into other areas. Tesla had to stop and focus on the Model S before taking on more models..

Still bummer for them - because they are local would love to see them become successful. I do think Hydrogen is the way to go for long haul trucking.

[Obadno]

Sounds like Nikola is rapidly becoming a subcontractor for GM

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by KeltonR

Mundane? No. No impact? No. It’s easy to have that outlook when you are not targeted. It cost us our reputation, but it also created activism that helped Arizona move toward the center and affect a national election. Yes it was political, the worst kind of politics IMO. It set the stage for anti-immigrant policies of Arpaio and Trump to come.

....and what's wrong with that?

BTW who is this KeltonR, is she one of those banned accounts back under a new name?

and also what is going on with the PhoenixMart site? Has there been any movement?

[soled]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

....and what's wrong with that?

BTW who is this KeltonR, is she one of those banned accounts back under a new name?

and also what is going on with the PhoenixMart site? Has there been any movement?

It pretty much has to be someone who's been banned before. He gave himself away in his post. His profile states he joined the board in Oct 2020, then he went on to say "This is the typical dismissive tone you’re known for". How could he claim Obadno is "known for" anything at all if he's only been here a few weeks?