LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[LAisthePlace]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

It will also connect to Union Station, giving passengers the opportunity to transfer to the LA MTA's light-rail and subways and connect to Metro Rail and Amtrak. Not everyone will ride this gondola, of course, but it makes transit more feasible for fans going to Dodger games. It is another link in LA's broader transit network.

Put me in the camp supporting this and hoping it comes to reality. The Dodger Stadium Express is a great services for getting TO games, but I've found it stressful/challenging/non convenient to try to fight the crowds to get on a bus going back to Union Stations.

If you could pre-book a ticket and at least know when you're heading back that'd be another benefit of the gondola.

I took Gondola's when I went down to Colombia and it was incredible. Such amazing views and great utility when hills are involved. And yes they went over houses...

Not that this is reason enough to build it, but I could see this becoming a pretty great tourist attraction even on non gamedays with some of the best views of DTLA and connecting to on of our best parks (Los Angeles State Historic Park).

[Quixote]

Update from the one and only numble:

2/16/22 update on LA Metro’s Vermont Corridor South Bay Extension study. Costs and ridership estimates developed.
• BRT: 8.8-10.1k riders, $289-$345m
• LRT: 13.7k riders, $4.7-$5.6b
• HRT: 18.5-19.3k riders, $10.8-$12.7b

Study expected to be finished next month.

https://twitter.com/numble/status/1497325692647874563

Yeah, with those numbers, there's no way HRT will be chosen as the solution (as least not at this juncture). That's the problem with studying this corridor in isolation, separate from the northern portion.

March 2022 presentation on LA Metro’s High Desert Corridor high-speed rail project. Looks like plans now expands beyond Palmdale-Victorville, with additional 2 future high-speed rail segments from Palmdale to Downtown LA (Palmdale-Victorville is now Segment 1). $33.4b total cost.

https://twitter.com/numble/status/1501666705482731520

[LineDrive]

It’s a waste of money studying that corridor. Everyone knows extending the red line from Wilshire to the GL is a game changer. Build it and then potentially extend it a few years later

[Busy Bee]

Is there even a provision for this at the Red/Purple wye?

[jmecklenborg]

I wonder if CAHSR could put something on the ballot that would get money for the Palmdale>Burbank tunnel by CAHSR taking over the Las Vegas project up to the Nevada border. Let Brightline build the 35~ miles to Las Vegas and pay steep trackage fees to operate on 200~ miles of tracks built and owned by CASHR.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Is there even a provision for this at the Red/Purple wye?

LOL no. They would have to somehow create new bellmouths on the existing Red Line tunnels north of Wilshire. Not sure if that can even be done without shutting down the line for the better part of a year.

[Busy Bee]

I've made several statements over the years that CHSRA or whatever entity that will own the system will eventually also own the LA-LV line, yes probably to the state border. The contract to opererate the line may or may not be the same concession that is chosen for LA-LV, i.e. Deutsche Bahn vs. Renfe. This isn't to say that Brightline won't build and operate it for a period of time, I just see a scenario where it becomes obvious that it Should be rolled into the state system as its going to be sharing key infrastructure and operational coordination will be a neccessity.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by ardecila

LOL no. They would have to somehow create new bellmouths on the existing Red Line tunnels north of Wilshire. Not sure if that can even be done without shutting down the line for the better part of a year.

I don't know about a year and bus bridging is tolerable up to a certain length of time, but yes an interruption of some period of time. Exhibit A for why relatively inexpensive bellmouth provisions are so important. Most of them, at least if NY is any example, are not much more than ten feet of indentation, just enough so its not necessary to shut down active tracks to punch/drill/cut/break through a concrete wall once excavation comes up to it.

[202_Cyclist]

President Biden's FY23 budget request, released this week, has $250M for the East San Fernando Valley corridor light rail project.

"$250 million through the EPD Pilot Program for the East San Fernando Valley Corridor Phase 1 light-rail project where the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority proposes to construct a 6.7-mile light-rail project with 11 stations, nine traction power substations, an overhead contact system, new vehicles and a maintenance and storage facility."

https://www.masstransitmag.com/manag...llion-for-rail

Here is a map of the proposed route (via LA MTA).


https://www.metro.net/projects/east-sfv/

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by LineDrive

It’s a waste of money studying that corridor. Everyone knows extending the red line from Wilshire to the GL is a game changer. Build it and then potentially extend it a few years later

Even Metro knows this. Their estimates put HRT ridership for that corridor above 100k.

[LineDrive]

Originally Posted by ardecila

LOL no. They would have to somehow create new bellmouths on the existing Red Line tunnels north of Wilshire. Not sure if that can even be done without shutting down the line for the better part of a year.

It would be worth it.

The reason LA is spending so much without the ridership to match is it cares more about getting X number of projects completed regardless of how well the projects are done.

Purple to the Beach
Sepulveda (HRT!) to SoFi/Intuit
Red extended down Vermont to the Green Line
Crenshaw North
Make Flower St / Pico a subway
Reconstruct Crenshaw/Expo transfer


Lesser priority but would make difference:
Red to Burbank Airport
Connect SGV to SFV via rail
East Side
Connect Green to Norwalk MetroLink

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by LineDrive

It would be worth it.

The reason LA is spending so much without the ridership to match is it cares more about getting X number of projects completed regardless of how well the projects are done.

Purple to the Beach
Sepulveda (HRT!) to SoFi/Intuit
Red extended down Vermont to the Green Line
Crenshaw North
Make Flower St / Pico a subway
Reconstruct Crenshaw/Expo transfer


Lesser priority but would make difference:
Red to Burbank Airport
Connect SGV to SFV via rail
East Side
Connect Green to Norwalk MetroLink

They have prioritized the sprawl of the network over the highest ROI ridership/development lines. Sequencing the purple line in Santa Monica as Phase 4 of the Wilshire Blvd subway made too much sense but it's not happening because Santa Monica already got the Expo Line, so they're going to have to wait 30 years. Never mind that the purple line will travel through much more active areas than the Expo and so be of much greater use, but a second connection between Santa Monica and DTLA will be perceived as a bias.

This was dumb because they could have sequenced the contemplated red line extensions as phases 5, 6, 7 and so kept people with HRT design and construction experience continuously employed. Even if someone leaves a position mid-project, their replacement will have experience by the time the next project begins.

[numble]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

They have prioritized the sprawl of the network over the highest ROI ridership/development lines. Sequencing the purple line in Santa Monica as Phase 4 of the Wilshire Blvd subway made too much sense but it's not happening because Santa Monica already got the Expo Line, so they're going to have to wait 30 years. Never mind that the purple line will travel through much more active areas than the Expo and so be of much greater use, but a second connection between Santa Monica and DTLA will be perceived as a bias.

This was dumb because they could have sequenced the contemplated red line extensions as phases 5, 6, 7 and so kept people with HRT design and construction experience continuously employed. Even if someone leaves a position mid-project, their replacement will have experience by the time the next project begins.

They divided the Measure M money equally by regional population and let the regions pick their priorities from the money available. The Westside chose to accelerate the Purple Line to Westwood, fund the Sepulveda Line and the Crenshaw Northern extension.

The design and construction of these projects is mostly contracted out, so there isn’t any importance to keeping people employed. Any internal expertise can be used for the Sepulveda or Vermont HRT (or the WSAB, Eastside and Crenshaw North tunnels). Realistically, most internal experts stay just about long enough to be eligible for the generous government pension, and then go to the private sector to help contractors win these lucrative government contracts.

[SoCalKid]

I've ridden the expo line a few times in the past couple weeks (after a hiatus during the pandemic), and on-time performance seems to be improved. In particular, I've been surprised by how quickly the train got through the USC are - I haven't hit a single red light from Vermont through 30th street. I'm wondering if that's just luck (and small sample size) or if the signal timing changes they've been working on are having an effect. The stops at red lights I've experienced have all been at Crenshaw, Western, or Normandie and along Flower. But even then, the train has stayed on schedule for me.

Can any more regular riders tell me if they've been experiencing the same thing? Don't get me wrong, I think there's tons of work to be done to improve travel time, but I'm curious if this is some real progress.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by numble

They divided the Measure M money equally by regional population and let the regions pick their priorities from the money available. The Westside chose to accelerate the Purple Line to Westwood, fund the Sepulveda Line and the Crenshaw Northern extension.

Yep, and this egalitarian approach is insidious and ironic because its priorities aren't aligned with what's best for the region in the long-run.

The only saving grace is that we have a 2% transit sales tax with no sunset. Once every region gets their bacon, we can start building a system that's actually useful and can fundamentally change the city's urbanism.

[Quixote]

The Vermont Corridor needs to be an extension of the Red Line, even if it requires reconstructing Wilshire/Vermont station. This provides an impetus to create a direct US to Hollywood route that can also interline with a corridor underneath SMB. This 4.5-mile, 5-station solution would not be cheap (probably $6-7 billion), but it would be very cost-competitive because of the interlining, connections, and the areas served. Or they could consider this as a stand-alone connector line with potential for future integration.

This alignment would:

• Create a more direct route to Hollywood and the SFV from US
• Lay the groundwork for a direct US-WH route along SMB
• Serve large chunks of Echo Park and Silver Lake
• Dedicated Dodger Stadium stop, which would also serve nearly all of Angelino Heights
• Serve the entire residential portion of Chinatown and Grand Arts High School while still being within walking distance of Olvera Street and Chinatown
• Quick shuttle bus service to Vermont/Beverly and Vermont/Santa Monica stations

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Quixote

The Vermont Corridor needs to be an extension of the Red Line, even if it requires reconstructing Wilshire/Vermont station. This provides an impetus to create a direct US to Hollywood route that can also interline with a corridor underneath SMB. This 4.5-mile, 5-station solution would not be cheap (probably $6-7 billion), but it would be very cost-competitive because of the interlining, connections, and the areas served. Or they could consider this as a stand-alone connector line with potential for future integration.

This alignment would:

• Create a more direct route to Hollywood and the SFV from US

I've sketched a similar idea in the past. I think that the entire strategy for the subway in LA was first and foremost Wilshire Blvd from Downtown to Santa Monica, with a line through Hollywood to the SF Valley being secondary. For a variety of reasons, not the least being Henry Waxman, the Wilshire subway became not just secondary, but was cued WAY down the list. It'll open 25-30 years after it could have if not for all of the obstructionism, and it's the most important line of them all.

[Quixote]

Yes, but we can't turn back the clock. Wilshire subway to the VA is opening in 5 years, and the first two phases in 2024 and 2025, respectively. We just need to figure out how we're going to get that last 3.5 miles.

What about completely separating this line from Red (as has been suggested before), having a private entity fund those last 3.5 miles and operate the line for a certain period of time? I wish they would just automate the damn thing and have it run at least 18 hours a day.

In fact, why not do the same with the Red Line? Measure M only has, what, $200 million earmarked for Vermont BRT, yet Metro is studying rail options all the way to the South Bay? I thought Metro said that R/M projects are their top priority, and that there would be no "cutting in line"?

Incompetence all around. No vision.

[Quixote]

Word is they're considering opening WSAB initially as Slauson-Artesia, which is fine. Why not employ the same approach with, say, a subway between Hollywood/Western and Wilshire/Western? That's a 2.8-mile corridor with 2 brand new stations plus 2 connections. That can be done for $3.5 billion or so, and half of it could be funded by the Feds. The point is, you don't have to build an entire fucking corridor all at once.

It's just fucking frustrating that after 14 years since passing Measure R, we've only seen Gold Line East, Expo 2, and Gold Line Foothill open.

[Quixote]

Metro really played it safe with Measure M. With a no-sunset clause, they could've included more projects in the expenditure plan if only to have them in official writing. Not only would that have made it more appealing to the Board of Directors and voters, it would've at least allowed Metro to pursue those "dream projects" sooner. No vision.

The pandemic has totally upended the way we live and work, and there's now less of an appetite for transit.