Can Niagara Falls Pull Off A Vegas?

[edale]

^ Uh, your weather assessment is way off the mark. Try comparing the number of sunny days per year, or number of days with precipitation. The heat of Vegas really doesn't slow anything down, either, so I wouldn't use that metric for determining number of pleasant days. All of the hotels have elaborate pools and pool day parties have become a big thing. Other than that, basically all of the attractions are indoors and the hotels crank the AC to absurd levels. The malls, casinos, restaurants, bars, etc. are all contained in the giant footprint of the hotels, so the only time you have to be outside is if you want to walk to another hotel or something. Plus, it's the desert and people expect it to be hot. I've been to Vegas when it was 110 degrees, and it really didn't affect my plans in any way.

[memph]

Anyways, I really do think a lot of it has to do with Niagara Falls being a minor city within it's region. Ontario's govt isn't going to prioritize it's economic development as much in terms of upgrading it's airport, building rail/highways, negotiating with federal governments to make crossing the border more convenient, removing protections on agricultural land, etc. Ontario has plenty of other economic engines it can focus on instead. Whereas with Nevada, Vegas is the main economic driver.

[memph]

Originally Posted by edale

^ Uh, your weather assessment is way off the mark. Try comparing the number of sunny days per year, or number of days with precipitation. The heat of Vegas really doesn't slow anything down, either, so I wouldn't use that metric for determining number of pleasant days. All of the hotels have elaborate pools and pool day parties have become a big thing. Other than that, basically all of the attractions are indoors and the hotels crank the AC to absurd levels. The malls, casinos, restaurants, bars, etc. are all contained in the giant footprint of the hotels, so the only time you have to be outside is if you want to walk to another hotel or something. Plus, it's the desert and people expect it to be hot. I've been to Vegas when it was 110 degrees, and it really didn't affect my plans in any way.

I agree that Vegas gets around the summer heat by having things indoors with AC, but my point is that Niagara Falls has the ability to do the same with heated indoor amenities. Did you do much outdoors when it was 110F? I doubt I would, even with pools, pool weather for me is 80-95F.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by memph

Anyways, I really do think a lot of it has to do with Niagara Falls being a minor city within it's region. Ontario's govt isn't going to prioritize it's economic development as much in terms of upgrading it's airport, building rail/highways, negotiating with federal governments to make crossing the border more convenient, removing protections on agricultural land, etc. Ontario has plenty of other economic engines it can focus on instead. Whereas with Nevada, Vegas is the main economic driver.

Niagara Falls is a top tourist attraction in Ontario and the Ontario government is already planning to improve the rail link to Toronto. Projects such as the one proposed will encourage the need for better connectivity.

We know that any efforts to make crossing the border more convenient will be complicated and difficult.

[memph]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Niagara Falls is a top tourist attraction in Ontario and the Ontario government is already planning to improve the rail link to Toronto. Projects such as the one proposed will encourage the need for better connectivity.

We know that any efforts to make crossing the border more convenient will be complicated and difficult.

I mean ok but while an improved rail link will be nice, the province is still not planning on making Niagara Falls the main transportation hub of the province, which is clearly Toronto.

With Toronto as the main city, it will always be the main destination while Niagara Falls will just be the most popular side trip destination for people going into Toronto. That's why when it comes to concerts, theatre, dining, shopping, pro sports, etc., that will always be concentrated in Toronto.

I don't mean to diminish Niagara Region's appeal. As I said, we always take international visitors there, it's definitely a must-do daytrip from Toronto. I also know many locals who go there for the wineries, golf, casinos, indoor waterparks, in addition to the falls and gorge of course.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by memph

Based on that definition... number of pleasant days in NF and LV from Oct 2020 to Sept 2021

LV
Oct 2020: 7
Nov 2020: 14
Dec 2020: 0
Jan 2021: 3
Feb 2021: 8
Mar 2021: 17
Apr 2021: 23
May 2021: 8
Jun 2021: 1
July 2021: 0
Aug 2021: 0
Sep 2021: 3
total: 84 days

NF
Oct 2020: 3
Nov 2020: 2
Dec 2020: 0
Jan 2021: 0
Feb 2021: 0
Mar 2021: 1
Apr 2021: 1
May 2021: 8
Jun 2021: 25
Jul 2021: 30
Aug 2021: 21
Sep 2021: 29
total: 120 days

Perhaps one key difference though is *when* it's nice. In NF it's basically nice at the same time as in the Midwest and NE, so there's no point going there for better weather. In Vegas, it's nicest in March, April and November, when a lot of North America is rather cool, so they may want to go there for some warmth.

Your ranking is absolute madness, virtually every day in Vegas from mid October to mid April is pleasant unless it happens to be raining which is very uncommon even if it can be brisk at night

Even once it warms the nights are usually perfect in Vegas unless it’s in the hight of summer.

[Crawford]

I think Vegas has horrible weather, pretty much year-round. But I suspect Obadno's preferences are closer to most visitor preferences.

For whatever reason, people seem to like sunglare and premature aging. Don't know how many times I've heard places like Germany and England are "bleak" and how much they wish they could live somewhere where it's always sunny. Yuma is pretty much hell on earth to me, will make a fair-skinned person look like a prune and damage vision, but folks seem to love that kind of extreme sunny climate. So I think the average person will think Vegas has great climate, and Niagara Falls has terrible climate.

[mrnyc]

nf could take a few tips from vegas by publicizing itself more as a destination for spring and fall. the general impression of the weather is two months of false spring for honeymooners, igloo building season, then hunkering away for 9-10 months of arctic winter, with maybe an occasional frozen falls pic.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think Vegas has horrible weather, pretty much year-round. But I suspect Obadno's preferences are closer to most visitor preferences.

For whatever reason, people seem to like sunglare and premature aging. Don't know how many times I've heard places like Germany and England are "bleak" and how much they wish they could live somewhere where it's always sunny. Yuma is pretty much hell on earth to me, will make a fair-skinned person look like a prune and damage vision, but folks seem to love that kind of extreme sunny climate. So I think the average person will think Vegas has great climate, and Niagara Falls has terrible climate.

Yes most people prefer sunny and warm weather.

[MolsonExport]

with this, it is surprising that NF is not the top tourist destination on the planet.

[memph]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Your ranking is absolute madness, virtually every day in Vegas from mid October to mid April is pleasant unless it happens to be raining which is very uncommon even if it can be brisk at night

Even once it warms the nights are usually perfect in Vegas unless it’s in the hight of summer.

ok well what range of day-time and night-time temperatures would you consider pleasant?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by memph

I agree that Vegas gets around the summer heat by having things indoors with AC, but my point is that Niagara Falls has the ability to do the same with heated indoor amenities. Did you do much outdoors when it was 110F? I doubt I would, even with pools, pool weather for me is 80-95F.

Yeah, you can create Vegas anywhere with enough wide open space. And either proximity to, or ability to build a large airport. Tourists spend 99% of their time in Vegas indoors. It's not a city, it's just a big mall.

[Razor]

My original point was that NF should and could do more to supplement it's waterfall. Vegas doesn't have that natural attraction going for it..Well maybe the Grand Canyon, but it's still a way's off.
Tacky gift shops with all the same1960's carryover t-shirts, coffee mugs, and key chains are just not enough. Same with the campy haunted house(s). wax museum, and that burger joint shaped like a flying saucer. It needs a little more injection for the night crowd. It has a built in tourist crowd coming to see the Falls anyways. Clifton Hill and Lundy's Lane need to have their innocence taken away! I'm being a little facetious here, but currently NF is to Vegas as Ottawa is to Montreal!..NF needs to step up it's game a little bit. Maybe I'm just seeing too much potential where I shouldn't..dunno.

[MolsonExport]

Sin City worked in Montreal because it was Montreal. Joie de vivre. To shamelessly borrow from our Cajun cousins in New Orleans (Another famous Sin City), Laissez les bon temps rouler.

You can't make this happen in Ontario. It is too...Ontarian. The place where alcohol sales were banned on Sundays until the late eighties. The place where you once couldn't buy a beer at the Skydome, even though the Blue Jays were owned by Labatt! The place where beer was kept behind a wall and slung out on conveyor belts after relaying your order to a semi-stupid clerk. The place where outdoor beer gardens are pathetic corrals.

So you end up with the tacky and horrid (yet overpriced) dreck of Clifton Hill, and the revoltingly ugly hotels of NF. The market is clearly there. The mindset, alas, is not.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by memph

ok well what range of day-time and night-time temperatures would you consider pleasant?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ideal-weather/

I thought this was pretty good, Combination of warmth and low humidity and no storms. How warm you think is still nice is really a matter of tasted but most people would describe 70-90 with low Humidity to be perfect days.

I personally am good with 60-100 and with rain more like 105 but that's my desert rat rain appreciation giving me bias.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Razor

My original point was that NF should and could do more to supplement it's waterfall. Vegas doesn't have that natural attraction going for it..Well maybe the Grand Canyon, but it's still a way's off.
Tacky gift shops with all the same1960's carryover t-shirts, coffee mugs, and key chains are just not enough. Same with the campy haunted house(s). wax museum, and that burger joint shaped like a flying saucer. It needs a little more injection for the night crowd. It has a built in tourist crowd coming to see the Falls anyways. Clifton Hill and Lundy's Lane need to have their innocence taken away! I'm being a little facetious here, but currently NF is to Vegas as Ottawa is to Montreal!..NF needs to step up it's game a little bit. Maybe I'm just seeing too much potential where I shouldn't..dunno.

I think also we are forgetting the Evolutions vegas has gone through.

In the "Hayday" it was seedy mob town for low life's, business men and guys cheating on their wives, in the 70's it developed the party atmosphere but was still very adult. In the 80'-90's it went family oriented for a time to attract a wider array of guests, and international guests. That's really when they began courting the big conventions of all kinds.

Modern Vegas has gone back to a more adult theme, ditching the "family freindly" attempts in the mid 00's but overall its still very well rounded as a vacation destination. Everything from raucous boys trips, to major concerts, to relaxing spa vacations and industry conventions are all still very popular and have no issues in Vegas.

The only thing they might have lost is the "family" demographic but lets be real here, nobody brings their young kids to vegas, that isnt wat its for. Niagara seems like it went hard for that family vacation vibe and is just trapped in that identity.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Razor

My original point was that NF should and could do more to supplement it's waterfall. Vegas doesn't have that natural attraction going for it..Well maybe the Grand Canyon, but it's still a way's off.
Tacky gift shops with all the same1960's carryover t-shirts, coffee mugs, and key chains are just not enough. Same with the campy haunted house(s). wax museum, and that burger joint shaped like a flying saucer. It needs a little more injection for the night crowd. It has a built in tourist crowd coming to see the Falls anyways. Clifton Hill and Lundy's Lane need to have their innocence taken away! I'm being a little facetious here, but currently NF is to Vegas as Ottawa is to Montreal!..NF needs to step up it's game a little bit. Maybe I'm just seeing too much potential where I shouldn't..dunno.

I would like to add since Atlantic city is basically a walking corpse at this point Niagara does have the chance to pull the mantel as "Vegas of the east" now more than ever.

[Crawford]

I'm still confused why people think AC is different than in the past. They have Hard Rock, Resorts, Borgata, Caesars, and all the rest. And now they have giant non-casino resorts. Still the second largest casino market in the U.S., same as always.

It's all tacky and sad, but I've never seen a casino area outside of Monte Carlo that isn't. Gambling sucks.

Niagara Falls is seven hours from the NE corridor cities. There's one casino. You would pass many bigger/better casinos along the way. And Niagara Falls makes Atlantic City look like Paris.

[C.]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I think also we are forgetting the Evolutions vegas has gone through.

In the "Hayday" it was seedy mob town for low life's, business men and guys cheating on their wives, in the 70's it developed the party atmosphere but was still very adult. In the 80'-90's it went family oriented for a time to attract a wider array of guests, and international guests. That's really when they began courting the big conventions of all kinds.

Modern Vegas has gone back to a more adult theme, ditching the "family freindly" attempts in the mid 00's but overall its still very well rounded as a vacation destination. Everything from raucous boys trips, to major concerts, to relaxing spa vacations and industry conventions are all still very popular and have no issues in Vegas.

The only thing they might have lost is the "family" demographic but lets be real here, nobody brings their young kids to vegas, that isnt wat its for. Niagara seems like it went hard for that family vacation vibe and is just trapped in that identity.

I agree with this. Niagara Falls has potential, but it really needs to market itself better. Orlando has monopolized the family with kids vacation.

Niagara Falls is just seen as a honeymoon or place to propose destination.

Build a reputation as a place for wineries, scenic beauty, national parks, casinos, shopping, beers and breweries, adult fun, whatever. The idea is not to appeal to just one group (right now appears to be honeymooners and the families without resources to make it to Disneyworld). Appeal to as many as possible. That's what makes a destination fun.

[benp]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm still confused why people think AC is different than in the past. They have Hard Rock, Resorts, Borgata, Caesars, and all the rest. And now they have giant non-casino resorts. Still the second largest casino market in the U.S., same as always.

It's all tacky and sad, but I've never seen a casino area outside of Monte Carlo that isn't. Gambling sucks.

Niagara Falls is seven hours from the NE corridor cities. There's one casino. You would pass many bigger/better casinos along the way. And Niagara Falls makes Atlantic City look like Paris.

There are 3 casinos in Niagara Falls. Fallsview and Casino Niagara on the Canadian side, and Seneca Niagara on the American side.

Plus other nearby gambling venues like Fort Erie, Seneca Buffalo Creek, Seneca Allegany, Hamburg, Batavia, etc. Just not part of a "strip."

Seneca Niagara main floor is actually the former Niagara Falls Convention Center, as apparently NF USA wasn't doing so well with the convention and event business prior to the casino taking it over in the 2000s. It was Elvis' venue when he played the Buffalo area in the 1970s.