What is Nashville's claim to fame other than country music?

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Camelback

Are you a TN/Nashville local?

At one point DFW was a metroplex of 2 million, yet it still managed to grow to what 8 million?

Nashville should market it'self as The MetroFlex, lol

No, not a resident. D and FW were separate metros that had a combined population over 2 million in 1970. I think they were combined after 1980. So, you have 50 years to see if Nashville will hit 8 million. I guess anything is possible - Austin was only 250K in 1970 and it's now over 2 million.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by edale

I mean...doesn't that kind of reinforce the point that "Nashville Hot Chicken" was never really a regional food? If it was only a niche food that a couple of places offered, and was only consumed by a portion of Black Nashvillians, it is odd that it's now the dish that represents the city.

Right, I don't think anyone is saying that Nashville hot chicken isn't really hot chicken from Nashville, but it's just odd how it got famous, and specifically attributed to Nashville.

For example, there's a niche food in Detroit's black neighborhoods called Asian corned beef. They mostly sell these corned beef & cabbage egg rolls, but there are other fried corned beef dishes. My best guess is it developed as a legacy of former Jewish delis/takeouts in NW Detroit, where it seems most common. Kind of a Jewish + soul food + "Chinese" mashup.

I bet the vast majority of Metro Detroiters don't even know of it. It would be odd if it suddenly exploded as a national phenomenon, and became "famous Detroit egg rolls" now available at your local Applebee's.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It seems more like a dish that happens to have originated by a subset of people in Nashville than it is Nashville's dish. If that makes sense. I think of a regional dish as something that any local would have been aware existed before it went mainstream (e.g. a Philly cheese steak).

Not sure I understand your point here. Were Italian, Polish and German immigrants not considered subsets of people? Heck, Italians weren't even considered white until the late 19th century. For a time if your lineage wasn't Anglo Saxon you were considered a subset, which is why there were so many ethnic enclaves in big cites across the US, from New York to Chicago, Philadelphia to St. Louis etc. You're making it seem as if as soon as these immigrants landed thier dishes were household names and that's definitely not the case.

[ariesjow]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

Exactly, or to natives, "out east or out north". The Nashville of today and the Nashville of the 80's and 90's is like night and day. Folks out in Brentwood, Green Hills, Franklin etc. wouldn't venture into the those areas, especially not for chicken. Heck, some black folk would barely go unless they lived or had family there lol.

Very that. The audacity of that man using a sample set of folks who went to Father Ryan, Harpeth Hall, or Franklin as his barometer for when hot chicken became a thing in Nashville and acting like he made some point.

I'm literally sitting here at my desk cackling at the sheer fantasy scenario of a young, blonde McKenzie Frist (fictional character, obvi) ending her school day at Harpeth Hall circa 1999 in her green plaid skirt and trekking past the sea of by-the-hour motels, mobile home parks, and corner stores on Dickerson Road in her 3 series convertible to pick up her MILD quarter white plate from the old Prince's location in that strip mall.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

Not sure I understand your point here. Were Italian, Polish and German immigrants not considered subsets of people? Heck, Italians weren't even considered white until the late 19th century. You're making it seem as if as soon as these immigrants landed thier dishes were household names and that's definitely not the case.

My point isn't about the who made it, it's about how widely the dish was adopted locally. I assume that everybody knew about cheese steaks in Philadelphia well before anybody in Cleveland or Seattle knew about it. But, from this conversation, it seems like at least some Nashvillians (cool demonym) were unaware of "hot chicken" before it went mainstream.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

My point isn't about the who made it, it's about how widely the dish was adopted locally. I assume that everybody knew about cheese steaks in Philadelphia well before anybody in Cleveland or Seattle knew about it. But, from this conversation, it seems like at least some Nashvillians (cool demonym) were unaware of "hot chicken" before it went mainstream.

No, it was start of the hot chicken festival which was founded in 2005 that brought the dish to the spotlight to locals (particularly suburban white locals), well before it blew up and spread nationally.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

For example, there's a niche food in Detroit's black neighborhoods called Asian corned beef. They mostly sell these corned beef & cabbage egg rolls, but there are other fried corned beef dishes. My best guess is it developed as a legacy of former Jewish delis/takeouts in NW Detroit, where it seems most common. Kind of a Jewish + soul food + "Chinese" mashup.

Asian Corned Beef is the name of the restaurant/chain (like Lou's, Bread Basket, etc). They've been around for a while, and they created the corned beef egg roll. Initially they just sold regular corned beef sandwiches.

But yeah, it would be weird if those just jumped from being niche to being called a Detroit egg roll or something.

[BigDipper 80]

^Similarly, there's the mysterious St. Paul sandwich which is famous in the Black community of... St. Louis. I'd say it's reasonably well-associated with StL, but no one would call it a St. Louis-Style Sandwich or something.

On the topic of hyper-regional fried chicken, the small town of Barberton Ohio is known for it's Serbian-style "Barberton chicken" which is served with a unique accoutrement called "hot sauce" but it's really closer to a pepper slaw than a sauce. It's probably mostly unheard of outside of Akron and parts of Cleveland.

Which reminds me, Cleveland has the "Polish Boy" sandwich, which I think boosters tried to make a national thing, but it never gained any traction since it was never really seen as anything more than a Black food that you could get at a few locations on the east side as opposed to something really identifiably "Cleveland". I'd imagine that the origin story of Hot Chicken was similar, but with a better marketing push behind it (be it word of mouth or the city's CVB or whatever).

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by BigDipper 80

^Similarly, there's the mysterious St. Paul sandwich which is famous in the Black community of... St. Louis. I'd say it's reasonably well-associated with StL, but no one would call it a St. Louis-Style Sandwich or something.

On the topic of hyper-regional fried chicken, the small town of Barberton Ohio is known for it's Serbian-style "Barberton chicken" which is served with a unique accoutrement called "hot sauce" but it's really closer to a pepper slaw than a sauce. It's probably mostly unheard of outside of Akron and parts of Cleveland.

Which reminds me, Cleveland has the "Polish Boy" sandwich, which I think boosters tried to make a national thing, but it never gained any traction since it was never really seen as anything more than a Black food that you could get at a few locations on the east side as opposed to something really identifiably "Cleveland". I'd imagine that the origin story of Hot Chicken was similar, but with a better marketing push behind it (be it word of mouth or the city's CVB or whatever).

Hmm.. from the looks of it based on what you posted, only dishes founded by whites can be qualify as being regional? Interesting..

[BigDipper 80]

That's certainly not what I was trying to imply. I assume you got hung up on the names, but my point is that all three of these dishes have virtually no recognition outside of a very small geographic area. It has nothing to do with race, but there is a good point to be made that "the mainstream" (read; white) are more likely to be unaware of the trends happening within minority neighborhoods that they don't frequent.

[Crawford]

That Cleveland Polish Boy looks really good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Boy

Kinda reminds me of the Detroit Asian corned beef, in that you have a legacy group (Slavs for East Side of Cleveland and Jews for Northwest Detroit) and the newer African American demographic incorporates the legacy cuisine into a new mashup cuisine.

And this is why, in 2021, there are still lots of formerly Jewish-owned delis dotting Northwest Detroit, even though the Jewish community has been gone since 1975 or so. The restaurants, under new, usually immigrant or African American ownership, adjusted their offerings to better serve the newer demographic.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That Cleveland Polish Boy looks really good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Boy

Kinda reminds me of the Detroit Asian corned beef, in that you have a legacy group (Slavs for East Side of Cleveland and Jews for Northwest Detroit) and the newer African American demographic incorporates the legacy cuisine into a new mashup cuisine.

And this is why, in 2021, there are still lots of formerly Jewish-owned delis dotting Northwest Detroit, even though the Jewish community has been gone since 1975 or so. The restaurants, under new, usually immigrant or African American ownership, adjusted their offerings to better serve the newer demographic.

Kind of reminds me of the Polish dogs with fries that I used to get in Chicago near the near South/West side from food trucks in the mid-80s, when I moved there. I think the area was near the Italian village, although my friend called it 'Jew Town'. I am not sure if they still sell them there as the near south/west sides have been heavily gentrified since then.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by ariesjow

Very that. The audacity of that man using a sample set of folks who went to Father Ryan, Harpeth Hall, or Franklin as his barometer for when hot chicken became a thing in Nashville and acting like he made some point.

I'm literally sitting here at my desk cackling at the sheer fantasy scenario of a young, blonde McKenzie Frist (fictional character, obvi) ending her school day at Harpeth Hall circa 1999 in her green plaid skirt and trekking past the sea of by-the-hour motels, mobile home parks, and corner stores on Dickerson Road in her 3 series convertible to pick up her MILD quarter white plate from the old Prince's location in that strip mall.

I dated somebody who graduated from Harpeth Hall in 1997 and she definitely knew what Hot Chicken was when we dated in the early aughts. Even from her 10,000SF home in Belle Meade which coincidentally was across the street from one of the Frists.

Anyways. I otherwise see your point and she was not a typical Harpeth Haller.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Bizarre. No doubt the Nashville hot fried chicken (which is a different kind of hot, so definitely has zero resemblance to hot fried chicken served in black neighborhoods from coast to coast) and these epic bachelorette parties from Evansville and Akron, will put Nashville over the top for the Olympics.

I'm from rural SC born and raised, been Black all my life, and have frequented countless Black neighborhoods and chicken joints in various towns and cities across the country and have no clue what you're talking about. It's hot in terms of temperature coming fresh out of the grease but it's not the norm for it to be spicy. Hell my mom brought home some fried chicken a few weeks ago from a joint in the next town over (Bamberg, which we've actually talked about here before) that I'd never had before and it was wonderful but spicy it most definitely was not. I'm not sure why you feel the need to make fetch happen on this one but Nashville hot chicken simply has never been this ubiquitous Black culinary item you seem to believe it was.