The Great SSP Canada Cancel Culture & Wokeism Thread - Page 50

Acajack · #**981** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

I'm obviously being tongue in cheek, but certain people seem to be obsessed with bringing up the trans issue at literally any juncture.

In the case of this latest eclosion, it was actually brought up by biguc.

niwell · #**982** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Who on here says the issue can't be debated, though? Well, some people are actually saying it can't, but ironically they're not the ones you claim.

Two people on this very page have just said they're swearing off this thread because they can't stand the discussion anymore.

Leaving a debate isn't the same as maintaining that certain things are incontrovertible truths that they refuse to engage in. Which has happened multiple times on various threads (not by you FWIW). And that's fine, so long as it's not claimed to be open for debate in the same breath! It just amuses me when it happens - it's become a staple of most online environments.

There's also nothing wrong with leaving a debate IMO - after all the premise of a debate is predicated on every issue having the potential to being given an equal weight. The concept is weirdly vaunted. Debate is generally good, but not everyone has the time or effort to engage with things online they have come to an independent decision on.

OldDartmouthMark · #**983** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Same. Though there is something amusing about a bunch of old white people talking about woke-ism. No wait, there isn't.

There's also something completely not amusing by people dismissing the views of a certain segment of the population because of their age and race.

Think about it. You can say whatever the heck you want about it, but if somebody from the "old, white" segment disagrees, it's totally OK for you to put them down. It seems a little hypocritical, doesn't it?

I'm all for free discussion, and I don't agree with all opinions of posters on both "sides" of the discussion, but I feel they have a right to feel the way they do about it. If you don't want to read or participate, that's fine. It's your choice.

dleung · #**984** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:27 PM**

^^being white is relevant in this anti-wokeness thread in the same way one might rightly wonder why the body-positivity movement is headed by fat chicks

Quote:

Originally Posted by biguc

....A thread about annoyingly strident people who can't mind their own business devolves into a thread of annoyingly strident people who can't mind their own business. A bunch of old men in a tizzy about routine generational change...

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

there is something amusing about a bunch of old white people talking about woke-ism. No wait, there isn't.

Stop! You guys are ruining Acajack's safe space!

Acajack · #**985** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

Stop! You guys are ruining Acajack's safe space!

The only safe space I could honestly claim to need is linguistic, and I can tell you right away that if you guys come after that I and many others will turn your own convoluted logic around and use it against you with all guns (figuratively) blazing.

You can bet the house on that.

OldDartmouthMark · #**986** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

Interestingly enough I recently listened to a series of podcasts talking about nostalgia and Gen-X,from the perspective of A Gen-Xer themselves. While routine generational change wasn't a focus, they did talk a fair bit about how at some point during the last 30-40 years people of a certain age began to equate pop culture icons of their generation as constants. Comics and other kids books? We don't grow out of them anymore - we expect them to remain constant and our kids to enjoy the same things goddammit!

I think this general idea ties into concepts of "we fought this battle when we were in our 20s and how dare anyone find new battles??". And it's not overwhelmingly a boomer thing, generally speaking.

Yup, and it will happen to your generation (whatever that is) as they age. Young people always say they will never be like 'older people', but historically it has always happened, because they actually become 'older people'...

Acajack · #**987** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

Leaving a debate isn't the same as maintaining that certain things are incontrovertible truths that they refuse to engage in. .

Interestingly enough, the closest thing to an incontrovertible truth in the trans debate is that mammals (which humans are) are biologically, scientifically-verifiably split up into males and females, with a tiny number of quirks of nature as exceptions (as special and unique as a four-leaf clover, really).

Good people everywhere are open to accommodation and support for people who do not fit into the binary roles that nature has created for almost all of us, but may draw the line when the principles of nature themselves are re-written or tampered with in order to make them jive with the way some people would like them to be, or when some of the measures proposed might be prejudicial to other groups.

Acajack · #**988** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hecate

I honestly can’t understand why it’s an issue? Let people live their lives. I liken the terf’s of today to when I was a kid in cub scouts in the early 90’s and they let the girls join. Everyone was in an uproar. There’s brownies and there’s guides, why do they need to join scouts? These women and some men are butt hurt that transgendered people are invading their sacred gendered space. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

"Sacred gendered space" = battered women's shelters.

Nothing more needs to be said. (Even though others could be referenced in this way.)

WarrenC12 · #**989** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Two more -isms right there. Why would people's views be dismissed simply because of race and age? And BTW neither rousseau and I are even that close to being "seniors" yet...

Why are you so obsessed with these threads then? As others have said, this is a tiny fraction of the population that will rarely if ever impact you life in any way. Yet some of you dominate these threads with endless posting.

MonctonRad · #**990** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yup, and it will happen to your generation (whatever that is) as they age. Young people always say they will never be like 'older people', but historically it has always happened, because they actually become 'older people'...

The only constant is change. Things are different now than they were 200 years ago, and will be different again 200 years from now.

I'm willing to bet that in 1000 years that your average North American will be brown skinned with vaguely central Asian facial characteristics, speaking a new continental lingua franca, largely derived from English, but with a different vocabulary with strong Spanish overtones. The diet will be mostly vegetarian, based on foods grown hydroponically in urban farms with strong Asian overtones. I have no idea what the family units will look like, as personal and cultural morality can swing wildly over time. Perhaps we will all live in urban collectives, with multiple sexual partners, all looking after each others children.

Our little squabbles today may appear quite quaint in the future. On the other hand, individually, at present, we all have our own personal moral values and opinions, and these are generally well formed and set in stone, and when debated, we will feel threatened. Beyond a certain point, debate becomes useless because peoples opinions usually cannot be changed.

WarrenC12 · #**991** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

There's also something completely not amusing by people dismissing the views of a certain segment of the population because of their age and race.

Think about it. You can say whatever the heck you want about it, but if somebody from the "old, white" segment disagrees, it's totally OK for you to put them down. It seems a little hypocritical, doesn't it?

I'm middle aged and white. Generally speaking, I have the privilege and freedom to just walk away from this stuff and ignore it. Plenty of other people have to live it every day and can't escape it.

I'm sure they are tired of having OLD WHITE MEN tell them what's wrong with the latest societal change. There's certainly no shortage of it here.

Live and let live, move on.

Acajack · #**992** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

Interestingly enough I recently listened to a series of podcasts talking about nostalgia and Gen-X,from the perspective of A Gen-Xer themselves. While routine generational change wasn't a focus, they did talk a fair bit about how at some point during the last 30-40 years people of a certain age began to equate pop culture icons of their generation as constants. Comics and other kids books? We don't grow out of them anymore - we expect them to remain constant and our kids to enjoy the same things goddammit!

I think this general idea ties into concepts of "we fought this battle when we were in our 20s and how dare anyone find new battles??". And it's not overwhelmingly a boomer thing, generally speaking.

I won't speak for Rousseau but in my view, I don't actually think that things were better than today when I was my 20s in the 1990s. This isn't about nostalgia for me.

Things are noticeably better today for all segments of society, including minorities. And they must continue to change and progress - I don't disagree with that at all.

My caution is related to the impression that things are not following a linear progression based on how they began to change (for the better) several decades before I was born.

They are slowly being turned back: towards more division, more segregation, more dogmas, more taboos, more censorship, etc.

This isn't about my generation, or any generation really. Making it a generational struggle simply distracts from the real issue.

If you look for example at the resurgence of segregationist thinking, this principle was discredited in the U.S. in the 1960s because "separate but equal" proved to be a failure and sham. Black spaces, even if theoretically "safe(r)", were more often than not way shittier than other people's spaces.

And so the rightful, sensible approach was deemed to have all spaces (hopefully all of them good) open to everyone regardless of skin colour.

This is just one example but it is a pretty good one that demonstrates that what were are seeing right now is a slow regression, not a linear progression.

Acajack · #**993** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm middle aged and white. Generally speaking, I have the privilege and freedom to just walk away from this stuff and ignore it. Plenty of other people have to live it every day and can't escape it.

I'm sure they are tired of having OLD WHITE MEN tell them what's wrong with the latest societal change. There's certainly no shortage of it here.

Live and let live, move on.

You didn't answer his point.

Which is whether membership in an in-group is absolutely required in order to comment on issues that might be considered specific to that in-group.

WarrenC12 · #**994** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

You didn't answer his point.

Which is whether membership in an in-group is absolutely required in order to comment on issues that might be considered specific to that in-group.

There's no qualification required to comment on things, obviously.

You're not free from criticism either, obviously.

I'd like to think you don't need me to point these things out for you. You're trying some kind of "gotcha", I suppose.

Acajack · #**995** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

^^being white is relevant in this anti-wokeness thread in the same way one might rightly wonder why the body-positivity movement is headed by fat chicks

Ding! ding! ding!

Dleung is disrespectful to women who don't correspond to societal norms with respect to to thinness.

Let the record state...

Acajack · #**996** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

There's no qualification required to comment on things, obviously.

You're not free from criticism either, obviously.

I'd like to think you don't need me to point these things out for you. You're trying some kind of "gotcha", I suppose.

Then why do you point it out in your points as if the views of certain people are less credible?

WarrenC12 · #**997** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Then why do you point it out in your points as if the views of certain people are less credible?

Where did I say they were less credible?

Why are you so obsessed with this issue?

Acajack · #**998** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Where did I say they were less credible?

Don't play games with me.

Associating certain views with certain demographics and wondering out loud about how the issues are relevant or irrelevant to these groups, is a not-so-subtle way of discrediting people's views based on race, gender, age, etc.

Note that I basically never do that.

Acajack · #**999** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why are you so obsessed with this issue?

Why are you (and others) so obsessed with how much I (and others) post on specific issues?

For better or for worse wokeism is the strongest and most influential socio-political force for change in the western world right now.

If there is an issue that future-minded people should be at least paying attention to, it's that.

As for the trans angle of the issue, as I said already, it was brought up by biguc. Not me.

WarrenC12 · #**1000** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Don't play games with me.

Rich coming from you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Associating certain views with certain demographics and wondering out loud about how the issues are relevant or irrelevant to these groups, is a not-so-subtle way of discrediting people's views based on race, gender, age, etc.

Note that I basically never do that.

Consider an Alberta forum where they debate and complain about Quebec all the time.

That's what this thread is.