Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[aprice1828]

https://twitter.com/ihphobby/status/...D4lfSbp_sl1nkw

New CRRC MA Bi-Level push-pull cars for Regional Rail were recently spotted on an obscure facebook page. First photos I'm aware of.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by aprice1828

https://twitter.com/ihphobby/status/...D4lfSbp_sl1nkw

New CRRC MA Bi-Level push-pull cars for Regional Rail were recently spotted on an obscure facebook page. First photos I'm aware of.

Very cool! Does SEPTA even need them anymore given post-Covid ridership numbers?

[thoughtcriminal]

Wawa Station. At the end of what will now be the Media / Wawa Line.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...Y_4V54B3qUi14Y

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

Wawa Station. At the end of what will now be the Media / Wawa Line.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...Y_4V54B3qUi14Y

The first big step to reconnecting West Chester to Philadelphia via train! The current plans are for four more stations beyond this one.

I like how the station is right at the creek crossing.







Over/Under if they ever replace all the regional rail maps with the new route name before renaming a different line that will require them to replace them all over again? lol...

[summersm343]

West Chester Borough Council supports effort to restore SEPTA passenger rail service

West Chester Borough Council is unanimously throwing its support behind a proposal to restore the area’s passenger rail line connecting the borough to Philadelphia.

Commuter trains have not operated in Chester County’s most populous municipality since SEPTA shuttered the service in 1986. A community-driven revival has been in the works for years.

A recent vote by borough council cemented a resolution that allows the Railroad Restoration Committee to seek funding to reestablish service from Wawa, Delaware County, to West Chester. They call the plan the Metro Concept.

“It’s a less costly and more achievable approach to returning rail service using battery-operated cars, and what we’d like to do is lease the cars for two years as a pilot project to show that we can attract riders,” said Jo Ann Kelton, chairperson of the Railroad Restoration Committee.

PennDOT published a feasibility study in 2018 that showed it was possible ridership would return if passenger service made a comeback. However, the price tag for revamping the line and buying modern passenger cars came in at an estimated $380 million. West Chester and SEPTA saw the cost as a rather large and expensive obstacle.

“Since that time, my committee and all the members, of course, have been working on plans to try to develop an alternate method of restoring service until SEPTA would be ready to take it over,” Kelton said.

She pointed to the upcoming revival of the defunct commuter rail station in Wawa as a sign of progress. Once SEPTA officially reconnects its Elwyn stop to Wawa, Kelton believes that the Metro Concept will have an opportunity to build on it and put West Chester back “on the map.”

The plan is to reopen four stations: two in West Chester, one in Westtown Township, and one near Cheyney University. The idea is that passengers from West Chester would transfer over from the battery-operated cars once at the Wawa station to regular SEPTA cars.

According to the committee, this endeavor would cost $16.4 million — just 4% of PennDOT’s original estimation. This is largely because the plan does not call for the lines to be completely refitted to operate with the modern SEPTA cars.

“We think it’s feasible, and we think we can do it. We think it’s a very attractive alternative. And right now, we’re looking for funding sources, both state, local, and federal,” Kelton said.

“I feel like we’ve made leaps and bounds in terms of trying to get some momentum going. And although we’re not there [yet] and we have a long way to go on whether we could actually accomplish this, it just feels like we’re moving in the right direction,” Stefano said.

While the committee’s work has largely run smoothly, there is one small wrinkle in their plans. A portion of the line is currently used by the West Chester Railroad, which is a tourist train that has been in operation since 1997.

The borough leases those tracks from SEPTA and the all-volunteer nonprofit West Chester Railroad Heritage Association operates the train.

“We run mostly on Sundays from Easter through September. And then October, November, December, we run on Saturdays as well. We’ll run anywhere from one to five trains on a particular given day,” said Tyler Haney, the president of the West Chester Railroad Heritage Association.

“West Chester Railroad’s position has always been that we’re leasing the railroad at the pleasure of SEPTA and if SEPTA ever decides they want to bring regional rail service back, we will give up the tracks of them and let them take over and we would have to move on somewhere,” Haney said.

Haney thinks it’s possible to run regional rail service and the tourist train on the same tracks as long as there is a plan for how it’s going to be operated and who’s going to be responsible for maintenance — and as long as it doesn’t impact their operations.

West Chester Railroad did discuss with the borough council to have an amendment put into the resolution that the commuter rail should not impact its weekend operations. Because the trains are set to operate at different times, Kelton doesn’t believe that there will be any overlap in services or tours.

Read more here:
https://whyy.org/articles/west-chest...-rail-service/

[llamaorama]

Do you think the subways, especially the BSL, will ever get new rolling stock? All in all maybe not a priority if what they have already works, but the trains are 40 years old.

[Delthayre]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Do you think the subways, especially the BSL, will ever get new rolling stock? All in all maybe not a priority if what they have already works, but the trains are 40 years old.

SEPTA has listed solicited expressions of interest for replacement of the M4 fleet and a request for proposals for the streetcar fleet, but not the BIV fleet. I believe that the BIV cars are considered structurally sound and that the Authority intends to retain them in revenue service for some time to come. Despite their age, they are fully accessible, unlike the Kawasaki Cars on the subway-surface trolley network, and have not suffered serious defects as the M4 cars have.

[thoughtcriminal]

Still gaining some attention. Nothing really new in this piece except that it is still being discussed.

https://www.inquirer.com/transportat...-20220808.html

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

The first big step to reconnecting West Chester to Philadelphia via train! The current plans are for four more stations beyond this one.

I like how the station is right at the creek crossing.

I took a hard hat tour of the station, parking garage, right-of-way, and crew facilities a few months ago. On the tour, I heard that this project included provisions for future service should the Authority ever decide to go back to West Chester. I have a really good feeling about getting back to WC!

West Chester makes a LOT more sense than KOP Rail does. West Chester is the only county seat in the region not connected to Philadelphia by rail. Additionally, the ROW is there, the line has been maintained by the West Chester Railroad, and the potential ridership coming from West Chester itself, West Chester University, and Cheyney University is too great to ignore. Finally, there is no way to get from Southwestern Delco to West Chester without making three transfers. For example, if I wanted to travel to West Chester from Brookhaven, I'd have to take the 117 to the 110/111 (at Riddle Hospital) or the 109/113 (at Chester TC) to the 104. Extending the line back to West Chester would turn this trip into a much faster two-seat ride.

[summersm343]

^^I think personally that both a rail line to West Chester and King of Prussia both make sense.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

Still gaining some attention. Nothing really new in this piece except that it is still being discussed.

https://www.inquirer.com/transportat...-20220808.html

Does a Roosevelt Boulevard subway make sense? Would it make more sense to do an Elevated Rail Line or BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) line? I think it would.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Does a Roosevelt Boulevard subway make sense? Would it make more sense to do an Elevated Rail Line or BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) line? I think it would.

I think this has come up before, but I believe a heavy rail line makes more sense than a BRT. The subway proposal has the line becoming elevated from Blue Grass Road to the terminus at Southampton. Just on projected ridership alone, I don't know that a BRT could handle 125,000 people a day (which I think it would exceed.)

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

I think this has come up before, but I believe a heavy rail line makes more sense than a BRT. The subway proposal has the line becoming elevated from Blue Grass Road to the terminus at Southampton. Just on projected ridership alone, I don't know that a BRT could handle 125,000 people a day (which I think it would exceed.)

Then what about an elevated rail line? I would assume that would be cheaper and make more sense in todays day and age. I just don't see how in the current United States an entire new subway line would get funded. Maybe an extension of the BSL to the Navy Yard, but not an entire line.

I think an Elevated Rail Line from the Neshaminy Mall all the way down Roosevelt Blvd, crossing over the Schuylkill and down City Avenue to Lankenau or even to the Township Line Road stop of the NHSL would make a lot of sense.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Does a Roosevelt Boulevard subway make sense? Would it make more sense to do an Elevated Rail Line or BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) line? I think it would.

I can't see any scenario where BRT or even LRT would be a preferable alternative given the potential ridership. The Authority, the City, and the Commonwealth, and the DVRPC should be thinking much bigger, however. If such a project were to be done correctly, it could have the potential to kill three birds with one stone, making all users happy (the current configuration of the Boulevard works terribly for everyone): FINALLY building a heavy rail line to serve the Northeast, speeding up traffic between the Schuylkill and Bucks County by sinking the current inner lanes and converting them into a highway, and making the current outer lanes of the Boulevard safer for pedestrians and cyclists through roadway improvements.

The Boulevard Subway could diverge from the Broad Street Line at Erie, follow Germantown Avenue to Hunting Park, and enter into the median of the sunken inner lanes of the Boulevard. Stations and highway interchanges could touch key intersections between Broad and Southampton Streets. At street level, road diets, curb bump-outs, bike lanes, and other initiatives could completely transform the pedestrian/cyclist experience in the Northeast. Southampton Street should be the terminus, and a large transportation center and garage should be erected.

[Busy Bee]

^100%

[TempleGuy1000]

I like looking at all the old concept art for the Roosevelt Subways.

In the 60s, it was almost turned into something akin to the Dan Ryan Expressway and the Red Line in Chicago, where the Blvd would have had less intersections and been more highway oriented. Given the fact that people drive insanely fast anyway, I almost feel like it would have been a better option.

[TonyTone]

With the most federal Transportation dollars we've seen in our lifetime, do we think we will finally see the Roosevelt Blvd Subway?

And also another point, would an elevated line all the way down the center median be cheaper? While adding character to the NE as well as going with the original plan which was an Elevated line down the Median.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I just don't see how in the current United States an entire new subway line would get funded.

See Avenue, Second.

[TempleGuy1000]

Tom Fitzgerald, the transit reporter for the inquirer, wrote yesterday that this project and the KOP rail do compete for the same funding and it's a false notion that there is money for both (I have seen people else where state that we should be supporting both projects).

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

With the most federal Transportation dollars we've seen in our lifetime, do we think we will finally see the Roosevelt Blvd Subway?

And also another point, would an elevated line all the way down the center median be cheaper? While adding character to the NE as well as going with the original plan which was an Elevated line down the Median.

Maybe if they revised the Roosevelt Boulevard line to a mostly elevated line, they could take the savings on that construction and apply it to extending the Broad Street subway to the Navy Yard.