PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

at 5% population growth per decade, we should get back over 2 million in 50 years.

one would hope the rate increases. DC increased by considerably more and added more residents than Philly in spite of being less than half as populous. Out of the 10 largest cities I think only LA and Chicago grew by smaller %.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by cardeza

one would hope the rate increases. DC increased by considerably more and added more residents than Philly in spite of being less than half as populous. Out of the 10 largest cities I think only LA and Chicago grew by smaller %.

What?? Who cares? Growth is growth. You should be proud of Philly's growth. We don't need to be growing at a fast clip... it's frankly unsustainable in this country because of the sever lack of investment in infrastructure in America. I would rather be growing at a slower but steadier pace, as we have been. It's easier to manage infrastructure improvements in public transit, roads and highways... easier to manage housing affordability, so on and so forth.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by summersm343

What?? Who cares? Growth is growth. You should be proud of Philly's growth. We don't need to be growing at a fast clip... it's frankly unsustainable in this country because of the sever lack of investment in infrastructure in America. I would rather be growing at a slower but steadier pace, as we have been. It's easier to manage infrastructure improvements in public transit, roads and highways... easier to manage housing affordability, so on and so forth.

Even still, we should be building for the Philadelphia we want to become, not what we are now.

This is why I’m disappointed by the lack of discussion surrounding rapid transit expansion. If Philly is to remain successful it needs to expand rapid transit.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by cardeza

one would hope the rate increases. DC increased by considerably more and added more residents than Philly in spite of being less than half as populous. Out of the 10 largest cities I think only LA and Chicago grew by smaller %.

DC has always had the innate economic stimulus of being the seat of the federal government. It essentially can grow without even trying for that reason; its growth is tied to that of the nation. It's really an apples-oranges comparison, in my view.

Moreover, very similar to a Boston or San Francisco, the size of DC is really arbitrary. All three are prime examples of smaller cities by land area that anchor a very large MSA or CSA and have surrounding municipalities that are incredibly large/economically robust themselves (i.e., Cambridge/Somerville, Oakland/San Jose and Alexandria/Arlington/Bethesda). A real comparison would take into account the broader urban area of each city.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by cardeza

one would hope the rate increases. DC increased by considerably more and added more residents than Philly in spite of being less than half as populous. Out of the 10 largest cities I think only LA and Chicago grew by smaller %.

....and Detroit shrunk by 10%. We are at our highest population since 1980; nothing to sneeze at. Further, DC has not yet recovered to it's former peak population so in that way, it has a way to go, just like Philadelphia. (Neither has Boston for that matter.)

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

DC has always had the innate economic stimulus of being the seat of the federal government. It essentially can grow without even trying for that reason; its growth is tied to that of the nation. It's really an apples-oranges comparison, in my view.

Moreover, very similar to a Boston or San Francisco, the size of DC is really arbitrary. All three are prime examples of smaller cities by land area that anchor a very large MSA or CSA and have surrounding municipalities that are incredibly large/economically robust themselves (i.e., Cambridge/Somerville, Oakland/San Jose and Alexandria/Arlington/Bethesda). A real comparison would take into account the broader urban area of each city.

Ya'll act like DC has always been growing. It suffered the same demise as most other cities during the 70s and 80s. I remember going on school trips to DC in the 80s and it was bombed out blocks from the Capitol.

Anyways. We should be proud of our growth. After all the decades of shrinkage, this is a stunning turn around. And us more than anyone can see that the momentum is only continuing to build.

How many people live in a typical Philadelphia neighborhood. 8,000? 10,000? 15,000? The point is, it's not as many people as you think. When you think of adding 80K people, it's sort of like re-populating 6 or 8 or 10 neighborhoods, whichever way you want to think about it.

We will pass 1.7MM in the next census easily.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Ya'll act like DC has always been growing. It suffered the same demise as most other cities during the 70s and 80s. I remember going on school trips to DC in the 80s and it was bombed out blocks from the Capitol.

Anyways. We should be proud of our growth. After all the decades of shrinkage, this is a stunning turn around. And us more than anyone can see that the momentum is only continuing to build.

How many people live in a typical Philadelphia neighborhood. 8,000? 10,000? 15,000? The point is, it's not as many people as you think. When you think of adding 80K people, it's sort of like re-populating 6 or 8 or 10 neighborhoods, whichever way you want to think about it.

We will pass 1.7MM in the next census easily.

My parents lived in DC in the 70's and 80's and my dad still thinks that Capitol Hill is a horrible neighborhood.

The neighborhood thing is a good point - it's a larger neighborhood, but the 19130 zip code (i.e., Fairmount and Francisville) for example has a population of ~25k. So we basically added 3 entire Fairmounts. That's pretty damn good.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

My parents lived in DC in the 70's and 80's and my dad still thinks that Capitol Hill is a horrible neighborhood.

The neighborhood thing is a good point - it's a larger neighborhood, but the 19130 zip code (i.e., Fairmount and Francisville) for example has a population of ~25k. So we basically added 3 entire Fairmounts. That's pretty damn good.

The last time I checked, despite all the hubbub, Northern Liberties still only had about 8,000 residents. So it's 10 Northern Liberties.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Even still, we should be building for the Philadelphia we want to become, not what we are now.

This is why I’m disappointed by the lack of discussion surrounding rapid transit expansion. If Philly is to remain successful it needs to expand rapid transit.

Any such conversation is a national conversation. Transit is about national funding and prioritization. Philly nor any other city is doing anything major in terms of transit expansion without major federal funding and focus. Its pointless to talk about that in the local context.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Any such conversation is a national conversation. Transit is about national funding and prioritization. Philly nor any other city is doing anything major in terms of transit expansion without major federal funding and focus. Its pointless to talk about that in the local context.

Phoenix is expanding its light rail system.
Denver is building an electric regional rail system from scratch.
LA is extending the Purple Line.
Chicago is extending the Red Line.
NYC has one or two subway extensions being built at any given time.
Honolulu is getting a metro.

It’s not just that there are problems at the federal level (there are, don’t get me wrong), but Philadelphia certainly is being screwed by its state government.

If SEPTA got the money per rider that the CTA or even the MBTA gets, we’d see SEPTA’s backlog of infrastructure upgrades and repairs be cleared, which would allow them to allocate more money towards expansion.

Right now the only proposed expansion of SEPTA’s subways or trolleys is a line serving the suburbs and a 2 mile extension of the BSL south. Neither have started construction nor have either gotten far in the engineering phase.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

My parents lived in DC in the 70's and 80's and my dad still thinks that Capitol Hill is a horrible neighborhood.

The neighborhood thing is a good point - it's a larger neighborhood, but the 19130 zip code (i.e., Fairmount and Francisville) for example has a population of ~25k. So we basically added 3 entire Fairmounts. That's pretty damn good.

Whats funny is the suburbs of D.C. has some of the most affluent wealthy black families in the country.

[Radio5]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Phoenix is expanding its light rail system.
Denver is building an electric regional rail system from scratch.
LA is extending the Purple Line.
Chicago is extending the Red Line.
NYC has one or two subway extensions being built at any given time.
Honolulu is getting a metro.

It’s not just that there are problems at the federal level (there are, don’t get me wrong), but Philadelphia certainly is being screwed by its state government.

If SEPTA got the money per rider that the CTA or even the MBTA gets, we’d see SEPTA’s backlog of infrastructure upgrades and repairs be cleared, which would allow them to allocate more money towards expansion.

Right now the only proposed expansion of SEPTA’s subways or trolleys is a line serving the suburbs and a 2 mile extension of the BSL south. Neither have started construction nor have either gotten far in the engineering phase.

Agreed. LA alone is expanding 3 lines...purple, green, and gold and putting a new one (crenshaw line) in now, not to mention the LAX people mover. A lot of it paid for by measure M, a tax we imposed on ourselves to help build the system out more quickly.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Phoenix is expanding its light rail system.
Denver is building an electric regional rail system from scratch.
LA is extending the Purple Line.
Chicago is extending the Red Line.
NYC has one or two subway extensions being built at any given time.
Honolulu is getting a metro.

It’s not just that there are problems at the federal level (there are, don’t get me wrong), but Philadelphia certainly is being screwed by its state government.

If SEPTA got the money per rider that the CTA or even the MBTA gets, we’d see SEPTA’s backlog of infrastructure upgrades and repairs be cleared, which would allow them to allocate more money towards expansion.

Right now the only proposed expansion of SEPTA’s subways or trolleys is a line serving the suburbs and a 2 mile extension of the BSL south. Neither have started construction nor have either gotten far in the engineering phase.

The fact that PA doesnt allow regional tax funding for transit projects is a major issue, especially without a federal commitment to transit expansion. In many areas the only way new stuff gets built is if ballot initiatives pass that allow specific regional funding streams to go to transit projects. None of that can happen here.

The BSL extension is dead. K of P is not dead.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

The fact that PA doesnt allow regional tax funding for transit projects is a major issue, especially without a federal commitment to transit expansion. In many areas the only way new stuff gets built is if ballot initiatives pass that allow specific regional funding streams to go to transit projects. None of that can happen here.

The BSL extension is dead. K of P is not dead.

Even if we could fund projects through regional tax funding, it would be useless for Septa. Septa is so embarrassingly underfunded by Harrisburg that they struggle with just the maintaining and running the lines we currently have. Before you even talk about adding lines, you need to dig SEPTA out of the hole they currently exist within.

People will get behind a tax when they know it will do something concrete, when they know there will be a tangible benefit that they will see. When SEPTA is at the point where they have the finances and systems in place to run not just their existing system, but an expanded system, and all they need is some cash for the actual construction of new lines or services, then putting a tax like this on the ballot would make sense. No one is going to vote for a SEPTA tax with nebulous promises of future service additions after they complete needed work that has been delayed by decades of underfunding.

[SEFTA]

Originally Posted by allovertown

even if we could fund projects through regional tax funding, it would be useless for septa. Septa is so embarrassingly underfunded by harrisburg that they struggle with just the maintaining and running the lines we currently have. Before you even talk about adding lines, you need to dig septa out of the hole they currently exist within.

People will get behind a tax when they know it will do something concrete, when they know there will be a tangible benefit that they will see. When septa is at the point where they have the finances and systems in place to run not just their existing system, but an expanded system, and all they need is some cash for the actual construction of new lines or services, then putting a tax like this on the ballot would make sense. No one is going to vote for a septa tax with nebulous promises of future service additions after they complete needed work that has been delayed by decades of underfunding.

gerrymandering must stop

[PHLJD13]

https://billypenn.com/2021/08/19/phi...ace-animation/

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by PHLJD13

https://billypenn.com/2021/08/19/phi...ace-animation/

Wish the author would have asked about the observation deck. I fear it will not be reopening.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by cardeza

The fact that PA doesnt allow regional tax funding for transit projects is a major issue, especially without a federal commitment to transit expansion. In many areas the only way new stuff gets built is if ballot initiatives pass that allow specific regional funding streams to go to transit projects. None of that can happen here.

The BSL extension is dead. K of P is not dead.

KoP is a POS that needs to die ASAP. It is a horrendous project by just about every imaginable metric. I would gladly trade killing KoP dead to resuscitate BSL.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

KoP is a POS that needs to die ASAP. It is a horrendous project by just about every imaginable metric. I would gladly trade killing KoP dead to resuscitate BSL.

I'm glad someone said it.

[Mark in Mount Airy]

Originally Posted by PHL10

I'm glad someone said it.

While I wholeheartedly support the BSL extension to the Navy Yard and ultimately the airport, the KofP extension isn't wrongheaded. There are three huge employment centers in the Philadelphia region and one of them is not reachable by rail/subway. I want working class folks who live within the city to be able to more easily commute to jobs in KofP than they can now.

While we are on the subject, the City needs to put a lot more money into SEPTA as well. We have a City Council that has always prioritized spending money on people -- who can move across City Avenue -- then on than the physical assets of the city which cannot. It steams me that City Council underfunds SEPTA and the parks system.