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  #2061  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 7:22 PM
Dean4983 Dean4983 is offline
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Originally Posted by TallCoolOne View Post
American Revolution Museum... groundbreaking ceremony .. although - I believe you guys all hated the looks of this ...cheap etc...
Apologies if this has already been posted. Heck, I probably got it from this forum. But here is the construction cam for anyone interested:

http://www.earthcam.net/projects/intech/amrevmuseum/
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  #2062  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 8:26 PM
MusicMan84 MusicMan84 is offline
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Apologies if this has already been posted. Heck, I probably got it from this forum. But here is the construction cam for anyone interested:

http://www.earthcam.net/projects/intech/amrevmuseum/
[2 cents] While walking by the other day, I was enjoying the unobstructed view of the Customs House. I think it is a real gem. [/2cents]
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  #2063  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 8:38 PM
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[2 cents] While walking by the other day, I was enjoying the unobstructed view of the Customs House. I think it is a real gem. [/2cents]
Indeed!

And what you contribute here, by the way, is worth a helluva lot more than 2 cents.
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  #2064  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 11:34 AM
Dean4983 Dean4983 is offline
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[2 cents] While walking by the other day, I was enjoying the unobstructed view of the Customs House. I think it is a real gem. [/2cents]
I very much agree!
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  #2065  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 12:23 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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In other general development news:

Yes please.

More @ http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...in-Camden.html
The term "office park" scares me. Has the term found a larger use or are we still talking about a group of homogenous 3-4 story buildings with no street interaction surrounded by banal lawns and streets with names like Office Park Drive?

On one hand I'm tempted to say that Camden can use any development it can get, but this location is perfect for those want to just get in and out of Camden so it is unlikely to have much of an economic impact unless we see some mixed used here.

Really hoping this is designed as a walkable urban environment.
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  #2066  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 12:56 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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On one hand I'm tempted to say that Camden can use any development it can get, but this location is perfect for those want to just get in and out of Camden so it is unlikely to have much of an economic impact unless we see some mixed used here.
I think that's the point and probably the most important feature to investors and potential employers. I share the belief in urban, walkable oriented developments but Camden has fallen so far, it really does need any sort of tax generating enterprises that it can land. It's not like Camden is on the brink of being the next Jersey City or heck, even Newark.
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  #2067  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 1:14 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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The term "office park" scares me. Has the term found a larger use or are we still talking about a group of homogenous 3-4 story buildings with no street interaction surrounded by banal lawns and streets with names like Office Park Drive?

On one hand I'm tempted to say that Camden can use any development it can get, but this location is perfect for those want to just get in and out of Camden so it is unlikely to have much of an economic impact unless we see some mixed used here.

Really hoping this is designed as a walkable urban environment.
Not particularly good for Philadelphia either if successful. I'm not eager to see companies based in Philadelphia 'lured' to the Camden gateway through incentive dollars, which is Wolf CRE's express objective.
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  #2068  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by justin7
The term "office park" scares me. Has the term found a larger use or are we still talking about a group of homogenous 3-4 story buildings with no street interaction surrounded by banal lawns and streets with names like Office Park Drive?

On one hand I'm tempted to say that Camden can use any development it can get, but this location is perfect for those want to just get in and out of Camden so it is unlikely to have much of an economic impact unless we see some mixed used here.

Really hoping this is designed as a walkable urban environment.
Totally agree. I'm encouraged that it won't be regular boring crap considering that Campbell's has their reputation staked on this in some ways, having invested millions in their HQ and are spearheading this project as a game changer or whatever for the area. And the guy whose job it is to do real estate dealings for Campbell's said:

"Brandywine, which operates six of Philadelphia's 10 largest office buildings and has also been the dominant office developer in University City and Radnor, where it's based, "has consistently demonstrated a clear focus on high-quality, well-designed urban development,” said Richard Landers, Campbell’s Vice President of Tax and Real Estate, in this statement."


Also, an earlier article about this says:

Part of those plans include getting PATCO to build a stop at the office park — an effort that could take five to 10 years.

So, that's all pretty encouraging. It makes it sound almost like they have TOD in mind. That doesn't sound like "lets build some boxes surrounded by parking lots" to me. I'll be watching out for any renderings like a hawk though.


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Not particularly good for Philadelphia either if successful. I'm not eager to see companies based in Philadelphia 'lured' to the Camden gateway through incentive dollars, which is Wolf CRE's express objective.
What I'm hoping is rather that companies based in suburban office parks in places in the state are lured to Camden. This has in fact already happened; Webimax, currently based in Mt Laurel, is moving to the Ferry Terminal Building on the waterfront, and plans to double in size. This could work for other companies outside the area too. The "NJ Grow" tax incentives for were engineered to make South Jersey attractive in ways that other tax breaks were only geared for North Jersey, mainly by lowering the amount of investment/capital/whatever needed to get them, since we don't get the huge investments that North Jersey gets with its proximity to that other city up there.

(As a disclaimer, I really hate the fact that every municipality in the country is at war with every other municipality to see who can offer the best tax incentives to make companies move to their towns. But it's obviously not going away, because it seems to be how a large part of our economy works.)
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  #2069  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by josef View Post


What I'm hoping is rather that companies based in suburban office parks in places in the state are lured to Camden. This has in fact already happened; Webimax, currently based in Mt Laurel, is moving to the Ferry Terminal Building on the waterfront, and plans to double in size. This could work for other companies outside the area too. The "NJ Grow" tax incentives for were engineered to make South Jersey attractive in ways that other tax breaks were only geared for North Jersey, mainly by lowering the amount of investment/capital/whatever needed to get them, since we don't get the huge investments that North Jersey gets with its proximity to that other city up there.

(As a disclaimer, I really hate the fact that every municipality in the country is at war with every other municipality to see who can offer the best tax incentives to make companies move to their towns. But it's obviously not going away, because it seems to be how a large part of our economy works.)
Yes, I hope that companies in the city proper will look past immediate financial exigencies and incentives and find reason to stay. Better talent pool of young workers, culture, etc...
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  #2070  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 7:13 PM
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Article from Curbed Philly on the Museum of the American Revolution groundbreaking

http://philly.curbed.com/archives/20...eum-of-the.php
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  #2071  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 9:03 PM
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Yes, I hope that companies in the city proper will look past immediate financial exigencies and incentives and find reason to stay. Better talent pool of young workers, culture, etc...
I kind of think that the kinds of companies that could be bribed to leave Philly for a Camden office park are not the kinds of companies we need to worry about much anyway.

A company that is willing to do that in many cases has a very generic employee base for whom urban amenities/lifestyle is low priority. Kind of an "Office Space" type place. Most companies of that type have already left the city for the burbs over the past 5 decades.

I think I have bought into the idea that Philadelphia is going to attract companies based on its natural draws: lifestyle, youth-appeal, transit access, diversity, etc., and needs less and less to bribe companies that covet talented employees who covet those kinds of urban traits.

Architects, lawyers, tech-geeks, new media types, creative types, etc. . . . alot of them might quit their jobs and look for new ones before they would give up their urban lifestyles and reverse commute by car to Campbell's campus on a desolate former titty bar strip.

Companies that go running to the outskirts of Camden for a few dollars probably have more of the older-model of corporate employee . . the kind of people who already drive to work in suburban office parks and actually like it. My guess is that the Camden facility would appeal more to suburban companies than urban ones . . . that Brandywine might be banking on taking advantage of a shift in the thinking of conventional suburban companies that might be considering transitioning to a more transit-oriented, less-sprawl oriented setting, but aren't ready to take the full-on plunge into the urban environment.

Increasingly, the settings of suburban office parks in almost all of South Jersey and the other less elite Philly suburbs - Lower Bucks, Central Montco, Delco - are looking pretty drab and uninspiring. Unless you are along the Main Line and Conshohocken/Plymouth Meeting, Princeton, maybe Moorestown, Doylestown, and a few other isolated spots, the suburban office setting is really pretty horrible already. Relocating to a Campbell's campus wouldn't really be a drop-off in terms of physical environment, but would have a much better regional location, especially compared to other South Jersey spots or places in Lower Bucks or Delco close to NJ.

But can you imagine companies like RJMetrics relocating there? Increasingly, it's hard to do that, with Center City getting better and better and baby-boomer Green Acres values receding further over the sunset.

In the future, it seems more likely that more competition for talent will be from lower-cost, more business friendly upstart downtowns: who knows, an Indianapolis, a Columbus, a Denver, an Austin. Cheaper, less politically stultified cities CBDs of which are beginning to emerge from 70 years of death and actually showing sparks of vitality and hipness.

Last edited by Cro Burnham; Oct 10, 2014 at 9:21 PM.
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  #2072  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 9:56 PM
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I kind of think that the kinds of companies that could be bribed to leave Philly for a Camden office park are not the kinds of companies we need to worry about much anyway.

A company that is willing to do that in many cases has a very generic employee base for whom urban amenities/lifestyle is low priority. Kind of an "Office Space" type place. Most companies of that type have already left the city for the burbs over the past 5 decades.

I think I have bought into the idea that Philadelphia is going to attract companies based on its natural draws: lifestyle, youth-appeal, transit access, diversity, etc., and needs less and less to bribe companies that covet talented employees who covet those kinds of urban traits.
Basically agree with all of this. Companies moving into Philly are currently taking some of kind financial hit, right? With whatever business taxes Philly has that suburban places supposedly don't. It's about the culture, the atmosphere, being in a community. That's why I work in Philly and would never work anywhere else.

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Relocating to a Campbell's campus wouldn't really be a drop-off in terms of physical environment, but would have a much better regional location, especially compared to other South Jersey spots or places in Lower Bucks or Delco close to NJ.
Especially if PATCO is going to build a stop. That's instant 10-minute public transit access to Center City.

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But can you imagine companies like RJMetrics relocating there? Increasingly, it's hard to do that, with Center City getting better and better and baby-boomer Green Acres values receding further over the sunset.
(Fun historical note: RJ Metrics started in Camden in 2008. They moved to the city in 2012.)


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In the future, it seems more likely that more competition for talent will be from lower-cost, more business friendly upstart downtowns: who knows, an Indianapolis, a Columbus, a Denver, an Austin. Cheaper, less politically stultified cities CBDs of which are beginning to emerge from 70 years of death and actually showing sparks of vitality and hipness.
Sure. Look at how expensive NY and SF are. You can see why a cheaper place would be more welcoming. But don't forget, it's not like NY has suffered because some companies are in Newark. Nor has SF suffered because some companies are in Oakland or Berkeley. Or Boston with MetroWest. These are strong regions, and I think it'd be pretty cool if we had a strong a region as possible.


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My guess is that the Camden facility would appeal more to suburban companies than urban ones . . . that Brandywine might be banking on taking advantage of a shift in the thinking of conventional suburban companies that might be considering transitioning to a more transit-oriented, less-sprawl oriented setting, but aren't ready to take the full-on plunge into the urban environment.
This is an interesting point, and I like it. There are currently companies based in suburban places that don't move for reasons, even if we don't like them, like, lots of immediately local employees, CEOs live nearby, whatever things like that. If this is a way to increase the urbanity of their company without the "scary" (or whatever) plunge of going right into Center City, then I'm for it. Anything to cut back the immense, soulless swaths of suburban office parks.
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  #2073  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 10:29 PM
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This is an interesting point, and I like it. There are currently companies based in suburban places that don't move for reasons, even if we don't like them, like, lots of immediately local employees, CEOs live nearby, whatever things like that. If this is a way to increase the urbanity of their company without the "scary" (or whatever) plunge of going right into Center City, then I'm for it. Anything to cut back the immense, soulless swaths of suburban office parks.
In a way, I think the Navy Yard attracts a similar type of company - other than Urban Outfitters, which went for the space and post industrial setting in addition to the incentives (but they would never have gone to the edge Camden) - so I suspect that the Campbell's campus might offer a partial competing alternative to the Navy Yard, but not Center City for the most part.

Interestingly Brandywine's major regional rival is Liberty Property, which controls the Navy Yard. So this Campbell's deal might give Brandywine a competing product in this niche which it doesn't have for now.
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  #2074  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2014, 2:58 PM
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On the topic of the American Revolution Museum, I feel like the building that houses the Museum should be as daring and take as many risks as the revolution itself. I wanted a building with really polarizing features, something that would standout in a neighborhood full of beautiful buildings. Instead what we got was the safest possible alternative, the building we are going to end up with is somewhere between a high school and a colonial HoJo's.
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  #2075  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2014, 3:40 PM
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On the topic of the American Revolution Museum, I feel like the building that houses the Museum should be as daring and take as many risks as the revolution itself. I wanted a building with really polarizing features, something that would standout in a neighborhood full of beautiful buildings. Instead what we got was the safest possible alternative, the building we are going to end up with is somewhere between a high school and a colonial HoJo's.
True^^

And these reviews from the Curbed article Summers posted above were actually entertaining :

Nathaniel Popkin, founder of Hidden City and the man who got this MAR ball rolling after penning the Declaration of Architectural Independence:

"That the People of Philadelphia, increasingly confident in a vital future for their City, have a right and a duty to demand of the Representatives in the Art Commission and at other levels and areas of Government that they throw off the Reactionary, Ham-Fisted, and Nostalgic design for the Museum and provide new Ideas and new Approaches for the Museum, and that they do so now."

Property's Liz Spikol on the bland design:

"I' m starting to think that Robert A.M. Stern is the Robert De Niro of architecture, and not just because the two New Yorkers have names that trouble copy editors. It's the professional inconsistency — a disconcerting whiplash between knockout performances and efforts one could charitably term "phoned in."
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  #2076  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2014, 10:32 PM
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I kind of think that the kinds of companies that could be bribed to leave Philly for a Camden office park are not the kinds of companies we need to worry about much anyway.

A company that is willing to do that in many cases has a very generic employee base for whom urban amenities/lifestyle is low priority. Kind of an "Office Space" type place. Most companies of that type have already left the city for the burbs over the past 5 decades.

I think I have bought into the idea that Philadelphia is going to attract companies based on its natural draws: lifestyle, youth-appeal, transit access, diversity, etc., and needs less and less to bribe companies that covet talented employees who covet those kinds of urban traits.

Architects, lawyers, tech-geeks, new media types, creative types, etc. . . . alot of them might quit their jobs and look for new ones before they would give up their urban lifestyles and reverse commute by car to Campbell's campus on a desolate former titty bar strip.

Companies that go running to the outskirts of Camden for a few dollars probably have more of the older-model of corporate employee . . the kind of people who already drive to work in suburban office parks and actually like it. My guess is that the Camden facility would appeal more to suburban companies than urban ones . . . that Brandywine might be banking on taking advantage of a shift in the thinking of conventional suburban companies that might be considering transitioning to a more transit-oriented, less-sprawl oriented setting, but aren't ready to take the full-on plunge into the urban environment.

Increasingly, the settings of suburban office parks in almost all of South Jersey and the other less elite Philly suburbs - Lower Bucks, Central Montco, Delco - are looking pretty drab and uninspiring. Unless you are along the Main Line and Conshohocken/Plymouth Meeting, Princeton, maybe Moorestown, Doylestown, and a few other isolated spots, the suburban office setting is really pretty horrible already. Relocating to a Campbell's campus wouldn't really be a drop-off in terms of physical environment, but would have a much better regional location, especially compared to other South Jersey spots or places in Lower Bucks or Delco close to NJ.

But can you imagine companies like RJMetrics relocating there? Increasingly, it's hard to do that, with Center City getting better and better and baby-boomer Green Acres values receding further over the sunset.

In the future, it seems more likely that more competition for talent will be from lower-cost, more business friendly upstart downtowns: who knows, an Indianapolis, a Columbus, a Denver, an Austin. Cheaper, less politically stultified cities CBDs of which are beginning to emerge from 70 years of death and actually showing sparks of vitality and hipness.
All very good points. I hope you're right about all of them. I think more companies are going to want to stay in the city to as the younger generations rise into positions of power as well. It's a different relationship to the city (and a really a different city itself) than existed for my parent's generation.
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  #2077  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2014, 1:38 PM
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Retailers are definitely betting on Philly:

http://philly360.visitphilly.com/des...illy-this-fall
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  #2078  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2014, 6:37 PM
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Retailers are definitely betting on Philly:

http://philly360.visitphilly.com/des...illy-this-fall
For sure. There sheer amount of retailers opening in the city is really remarkable. They also left out Forever 21 which is opening on Chestnut in between Nordstrom Rack and Sephora. They just put signage up. They also left out American Eagle, which just opened on Chestnut. And MySuit, which just opened on Walnut, and Suit Supply which just opened on Locust. And Allen Edmonds on Chestnut!

It really is difficult to keep track of all the new retailers lol.
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  #2079  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2014, 6:38 PM
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AQ Rittenhouse update from Lincolndrive:



More photos here:
https://www.facebook.com/BuildingPhilly
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  #2080  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2014, 1:36 AM
Dean4983 Dean4983 is offline
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Venice Island in Manayunk; Pics from a few days ago





















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