Suburban Skylines - Page 29

mhays · #**561** Posted **Nov 18, 2021, 10:32 PM**

Those factors are true in many cities though, even if transit is a disproportionately-large factor in Toronto. Young talent strongly prefers a good urban core, the best transit heads Downtown, etc.

If Colliers' Q2 inventory data is an indication (always with a grain of salt), less than half of the area office space was in Downtown and Midtown. That's also common.

So over half is in non-core locations. And it doesn't see to cluster around train stations like residential does. I'm sure your reasons are factors, but it seems like there might be something further.

suburbanite · #**562** Posted **Nov 18, 2021, 11:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

Those factors are true in many cities though, even if transit is a disproportionately-large factor in Toronto. Young talent strongly prefers a good urban core, the best transit heads Downtown, etc.

If Colliers' Q2 inventory data is an indication (always with a grain of salt), less than half of the area office space was in Downtown and Midtown. That's also common.

So over half is in non-core locations. And it doesn't see to cluster around train stations like residential does. I'm sure your reasons are factors, but it seems like there might be something further.

I don't think anything you said contradicts my post. We're looking at two different periods of office development in the city. The majority of the non-core inventory is in the old suburban parks around the airport, Meadowvale, Scarborough, etc. which were all designed with car commuting in mind. TOD was barely a concept when they were being built, and so it wasn't like they were intentionally avoiding transit clusters.

In the time that TOD has become a widely publicized policy goal, the focus has dramatically shifted towards working downtown. The attraction of TOD for end users in Toronto is being able to walk to a train that takes them to their downtown office. The idea that a company will move next to a GO train station in Brampton and they will be able to take transit to work there isn't even a consideration.

We had an asset in Mississauga we were trying to pitch as a suburban TOD office redevelopment play and got no traction for 4 months. Ended up having to convert it to a small-bay industrial site given how insane the industrial market is here. The problem is that the exodus from the burbs has left massive vacancies in all the aforementioned submarkets, and there's a lot of landlords with decent quality space that will undercut the rents you need to make a new, high-quality office development feasible. TOD sounds nice, but not an additional $20 per SF nice.

Nite · #**563** Posted **Nov 18, 2021, 11:42 PM**

Metro Vancouver's Scattered Skylines

DSCF3460 by Calvin Hua-Nguyen, on Flickr

Nite · #**564** Posted **Nov 18, 2021, 11:45 PM**

Mississauga Square One

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread....25772/page-53

kingkirbythe.... · #**565** Posted **Nov 18, 2021, 11:47 PM**

Are all of the skylines of the Vancouver metro area height restricted like downtown?

Nite · #**566** Posted **Nov 18, 2021, 11:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkirbythe....

Are all of the skylines of the Vancouver metro area height restricted like downtown?

No, the tallest buildings in the Metro are all planned to go in the suburbs.
The tallest building in the Metro is currently under construction in burnaby as well.

Doady · #**567** Posted **Nov 19, 2021, 12:03 AM**

To build tall downtown-style office towers with no surface parking, you need to reduce the demand for parking. Many of office towers in Mississauga City Centre already have underground parking. The developers already paid the extra price, and it's still not enough. It's time for the government to pay the extra price, and that price is for transit.

And local transit is not the problem. Even though the pandemic is not ever, the MiWay buses in Mississauga are packed, but that's just local transit. Mississauga residents working in Mississauga. Time to invest in regional transit, for people living outside of Mississauga and working in Mississauga, and City of Mississauga and its MiWay cannot do it alone.

Solving this problem is up to the province and GO Transit. It is up to City of Toronto and TTC to work together and cooperate with City of Mississauga and MiWay and other 905 transit systems instead of intentionally putting up barriers between TTC riders and 905 riders. Why is GO bus service to MCC so much less than Sound Transit's bus service to Bellevue's downtown? Why did GO bus system have lower ridership than Sound Transit bus system in 2019, even though GO serves 2 times the population? These are the real reasons Mississauga has not seen office development in over 15 years.

True downtowns are for the region, and so building a downtown requires more than a local effort, they require a regional effort, and the Toronto area is still too divided for building downtowns. Bellevue is a better model than any place in the Toronto area, imo. Sound Transit is a superior regional transit system than GO Transit.

SAN Man · #**568** Posted **Nov 21, 2021, 10:15 PM**

13 to 14 miles outside of Downtown San Diego is an area called UTC within the city of SD, adjacent to UCSD. It has a growing skyline. I think the tallest are around 350 feet or so, nothing too tall, but certainly noticeable from all directions in the area. I took these pictures today of the opening of the Trolley extension. There are some good vantage points of UTC along the route, however I wasn't able to capture it due to the crowding on the trains for opening day.

Trolley arriving UTC station.

UTC trolley by Manuel Sanchez, on Flickr

Looking north from UTC station.

UTC north by Manuel Sanchez, on Flickr

The viaduct, looking north from UTC, down on Genesee.

Genesee by Manuel Sanchez, on Flickr[/QUOTE]

Nite · #**569** Posted **Dec 5, 2021, 4:00 AM**

Mississauga City Centre

• Video Link

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread....25772/page-57

Nite · #**570** Posted **Dec 5, 2021, 4:24 AM**

North York (1st half of video)

• Video Link

Labtec · #**571** Posted **Dec 6, 2021, 9:23 PM**

Atlanta's tree canopy in the fall, Sandy Springs:

• Video Link

Nite · #**572** Posted **Dec 7, 2021, 5:14 AM**

City of Lougheed (Metro Vancouver)

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...24156&page=584

Nite · #**573** Posted **Dec 7, 2021, 5:16 AM**

nevermind

SAN Man · #**574** Posted **Dec 20, 2021, 8:12 PM**

San Diego's La Jolla UTC highrise cluster is 11 to 12 miles as the crow flies from Downtown SD, a 15 mile drive, or a 40 minute train ride. Unfortunately the height of the buildings will always be stumpy, out of frame to the right are the runways of MCAS Miramar, the flight path goes almost directly over UTC.

UTC by Manuel Sanchez, on Flickr

mhays · #**575** Posted **Dec 20, 2021, 9:21 PM**

God, what is it with you Californians? You must have worked REALLY hard to locate as many airports right next to downtowns as possible! DTSD, La Jolla, DTSJ, DTO -- all heavily constrained this way.

dave8721 · #**576** Posted **Dec 20, 2021, 9:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

God, what is it with you Californians? You must have worked REALLY hard to locate as many airports right next to downtowns as possible! DTSD, La Jolla, DTSJ, DTO -- all heavily constrained this way.

We do that here in Florida too. Every major downtown is near an airport:
Downtown Miami and MIA: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7865.../data=!3m1!1e3
Ft.Lauderdale and Ft.Lauderdale Int Airport: https://www.google.com/maps/@26.0964.../data=!3m1!1e3
West Palm Beach and Palm Beach International Airport: https://www.google.com/maps/@26.6972.../data=!3m1!1e3
Orlando and Orlando Executive Airport: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5433.../data=!3m1!1e3
Tampa and TIA: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9659.../data=!3m1!1e3
Even minor airports like Opa-Locka have planes go right over Sunny Isles Beach: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.9140.../data=!3m1!1e3

Jacksonville is the one exception with its airport way out in the boonies, yet nothing gets built in Jacksonville.

Nite · #**577** Posted **Dec 21, 2021, 1:14 AM**

Downtown Toronto on the left, Yonge and Eglinton in the Center and North York City Center on the right

KevinFromTexas · #**578** Posted **Dec 21, 2021, 5:07 AM**

I think part of the wonky airport placement in places like California and Florida somewhat has to do with the geography and topography. Hills and lakes aren't forgiving when you need long stretches of straightline level surface to build on.

SAN Man · #**579** Posted **Dec 21, 2021, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

God, what is it with you Californians? You must have worked REALLY hard to locate as many airports right next to downtowns as possible! DTSD, La Jolla, DTSJ, DTO -- all heavily constrained this way.

The airport location is a touchy subject here. I love SAN and the location, but there are a lot of people that would rather see it out by Miramar, or down south by Brown Field. With a $3.4 billion SAN Terminal 1 reconstruction project that has broken ground and with plans of connecting the terminals to a long range multi-modal multi-billion transportation hub, I don't think the airport will be abandoned in the next 75 years.

mhays · #**580** Posted **Dec 21, 2021, 10:26 PM**

Part of me loves SD's situation because it's relatively convenient, even if you use a taxi to Downtown. The transit options look good (I'd prefer direct light rail over a transfer to an airtrain btw, even if the airtrain is slightly quicker.).

Even if SAN stays forever, what about a second airport (not counting the cross-border one)? Maybe the second airport can focus on regional routes and free up some room at SAN.