NEW YORK | 350 Park Avenue | 1,600 FT | 62 FLOORS - Page 18

chris08876 · #**341** Posted **Jun 26, 2022, 1:22 AM**

I'd be happy with either outcome but I would like to see 350 Park rise ASAP so my bias is for NYC.

Yeah it definitely would be the better choice, especially with talent acquisition. Not that Miami-Dade isn't full of talent but there's a different level of opportunities in the Tri-State.

JMKeynes · #**342** Posted **Jun 26, 2022, 2:50 AM**

Miami definitely has talent, as Crockett and Tubbs can attest — just not what’s needed to run a hedge fund.

DCReid · #**343** Posted **Jun 26, 2022, 3:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Honestly, I’d be shocked if Citadel takes more than 100k sf in Miami. Citadel has 1,000 employees in Chicago. Assume that at most, 600 of them are non-admin, highly-paid traders. If half of those 300 went to Miami and half went to NY, that’s not a huge Fl footprint. I don’t think that Citadel would even take 100k sf in Miami.

350 Park, by contrast, is a blue-chip investment. That tower could become the next GM Bldg or 9 W 57th (ie., the premier office space in a city with no shortage of hyper-rich tenants seeking such space at $300/sf.)

I don't think the plan is to close the Chicago office. So, the Chicago jobs probably will not move. There may be a reduction in time with a few relocations and people leaving the Chicago office, but I would be shocked if the Chicago office was closed. My suspicion is only the NYC and Miami offices will be growing in the future.

NYguy · #**344** Posted **Jun 26, 2022, 3:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I suspect that Griffin will be in Miami periodically in the winter, but will be in the Financial Capital of the World the rest of the time.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/23/nyc-of...eating-up/amp/

NYC office leasing deals are heating up as landlords consider fresh uses
By Lois Weiss

June 23, 2022 | 6:42pm

“Citadel, however, is also in talks to become the anchor tenant and provide the equity for a new 1,450-foot-high, 1.6 million-square-foot tower at 350 Park Ave./40 E. 5nd St. that would be developed by Vornado Realty Trust and Rudin Management.”

If you wanna discuss what’s going on in Miami, do it in those threads. This tower would be built in New York.

MAC123 · #**345** Posted **Jun 26, 2022, 4:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

If you wanna discuss what’s going on in Miami, do it in those threads. This tower would be built in New York.

Yes. Everyone knows that. And the current tenant, and the company expected to the future tenant of the new tower, is making a major move, both in regards to Miami and NYC. Which was what was being commented on, it's not rocket science.
You can stop being over zealous about the slightest mention of another city, especially when it directly has to do with the future of the building in question .

NYguy · #**346** Posted **Jun 26, 2022, 4:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC123

Yes. Everyone knows that. And the current tenant, and the company expected to the future tenant of the new tower, is making a major move, both in regards to Miami and NYC. Which was what was being commented on, it's not rocket science.
You can stop being over zealous about the slightest mention of another city, especially when it directly has to do with the future of the building in question .

I don’t give a shit about a move to Miami. It has no direct bearing on this tower, or anything else in New York for that matter. If you have something that explicitly says that, you can post it. Otherwise, you know what to do.

JMKeynes · #**347** Posted **Jul 27, 2022, 9:47 PM**

I hope that they give an update.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/vorn...-the-cards?amp

Vornado (VNO) to Report Q2 Earnings: What's in the Cards?

CONTRIBUTOR
Zacks Equity Research Zacks
PUBLISHED
JUL 27, 2022 9:51AM EDT

NYguy · #**348** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 7:49 PM**

KPMG goes to Hudson Yards…

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301611048.html

JMKeynes · #**349** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 8:36 PM**

Isn’t 345 Park going to be virtually empty? I doubt that it will be razed given its size, but a totally new facade like 666 5th got would be nice. Rudin should also replace its depressing concrete plaza with greenspace. Currently, 345 Park is absolutely hideous. It and 245 Park are the worst buildings on the street in my opinion.

Zapatan · #**350** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 9:10 PM**

That's disappointing but hopefully someone anchors this beauty at some point. I hope the design / height stay the same, too.

JMKeynes · #**351** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 9:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan

That's disappointing but hopefully someone anchors this beauty at some point. I hope the design / height stay the same, too.

I agree, but it looks like Citidel might provide substantial equity financing to build this essentially on spec. This would be THE TROPHY tower, and the demand would be very strong.

chris08876 · #**352** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 9:58 PM**

Eventually. There will be the need for new Class-A space and also tenants that seek to upgrade. A big thing going for the future towers of the pipeline are tenants seeking to upgrade space. Now assuming the landlord for "X" host tower doesn't renovate, newer towers or construction can always fill that niche.

On a side note, with Citadel abandoning ship in Chicago for Miami, I do wonder if that will trickle to NYC. I think given the investment in Miami-Dade, something will happen there but NYC is always as pointed out in the past, a safe bet.

JMKeynes · #**353** Posted **Aug 23, 2022, 10:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876

Eventually. There will be the need for new Class-A space and also tenants that seek to upgrade. A big thing going for the future towers of the pipeline are tenants seeking to upgrade space. Now assuming the landlord for "X" host tower doesn't renovate, newer towers or construction can always fill that niche.

On a side note, with Citadel abandoning ship in Chicago for Miami, I do wonder if that will trickle to NYC. I think given the investment in Miami-Dade, something will happen there but NYC is always as pointed out in the past, a safe bet.

I don’t think that Citadel’s plans in Miami affect their proposed investment in 350 Park, which will be a vastly more lucrative asset than anything that they can build in Fla.

rivernorthlurker · #**354** Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 4:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

... which will be a vastly more lucrative asset than anything that they can build in Fla.

Ken: "Hold my billions..."

NYguy · #**355** Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 12:47 PM**

Again. This is not about what’s going on in Miami. Unless it’s specifically stated, let the Miami discussion remain in Miami. This is why we don’t do multi-city discussions.

JMKeynes · #**356** Posted **Aug 24, 2022, 12:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

Again. This is not about what’s going on in Miami. Unless it’s specifically stated, let the Miami discussion remain in Miami. This is why we don’t do multi-city discussions.

That’s precisely what I stated. Perhaps even more than 175 Park, this could be the new marquis address, displacing the GM Building and 9 W 57th. I envision hedge funds paying $300/sf here.

JMKeynes · #**357** Posted **Aug 25, 2022, 1:56 PM**

Even assuming that Vornado and Rudin jointly develop this site, it will still have a relatively small footprint. Thus, I suspect that it will attract boutique-type tenants that don't require enormous floor plates.

Finally, I believe that 350 Park is virtually empty, other than the space that Citadel recently rented, which is presumably temporary until 425 Park has been completed.

NYGuy: The current 350 Park has only 575k sf. If Vornado redeveloped this on its own, how much sf could it build under the Midtown East Rezoning. Do you know how many sf Vornado and Rudin could build jointly?

This has the potential to be the most prestigious office building in the world.

NYguy · #**358** Posted **Aug 25, 2022, 8:10 PM**

^ I don’t have the lot size for that right in front of me, but the max FAR is 25. I do believe it’s mentioned how big the smaller tower could be earlier in this thread.

As far as total size and allowable FAR play off of each other, some comparisons below. (Note, the statewide max on residential is 12).

ONE VANDERBILT

1.653 m - 1.298 m (30 FAR)

CENTRAL PARK TOWER

1.617 m - 1.212 m (13.3 FAR)

STEINWAY TOWER

.581 m/entire building - .296 m /new addition. (12.8 FAR)

432 PARK AVENUE

.748 m (all buildings) - .595 m (14 FAR)

THE SPIRAL

2.609 m - 2.222 m (33 FAR)

50 HUDSON

2.868 m - 2.265 m (33FAR)

270 PARK

2.420 m - 1.863 m (23 FAR)

JMKeynes · #**359** Posted **Aug 25, 2022, 10:11 PM**

Thanks. I suspect that even if Vornado’s and Rudin’s parcels are combined, this tower would only be about 1.5m sf.

NYguy · #**360** Posted **Aug 25, 2022, 10:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Thanks. I suspect that even if Vornado’s and Rudin’s parcels are combined, this tower would only be about 1.5m sf.

From a couple of years ago…

Quote:

…The answer is it can go either way, Alex. We can build on our own. We don't need Rudin to build there. We can build a -- probably the best boutique building -- 1 million square foot boutique building on that site on our own, or we can combine with Rudin who is behind this and build close to a 2 million square foot building.

I’m sure they’re talking overall size. The larger tower would have an additional few hundred thousand sf added with mechanical, etc. on top of the zoned 1.68 msf.