California High Speed Rail Thread

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by green_man

California bullet train planners take critical next step to plan Fresno, Valley stations

The Fresno Bee
Tim Sheehan
April 28, 2022



Preliminary planning and designs for four future high-speed train stations in Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley are expected to start later this year under a process approved Wednesday by the California High-Speed Rail Authority.

The agency’s board of directors, meeting in Sacramento, agreed to seek proposals from engineering firms to take on the first layers of work on stations in Merced, Fresno, Hanford and Bakersfield.

Read more at: https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...#storylink=cpy

Straight out of Sim City 4/Cities Skylines!

[Pedestrian]

California approves bullet train link from Central Valley to Bay Area
Lauren Hernández, Ricardo Cano, Dustin Gardiner
April 28, 2022
Updated: April 29, 2022 6:13 p.m.

Plans for a bullet-train line that could zip commuters between the Central Valley and Silicon Valley — linking the low-income region and its affordable housing with higher-paying tech jobs on the coast — took a major step forward this week as rail officials signed off on the 90-mile extension.

The High Speed Rail Authority Board unanimously approved plans and environmental clearance for the segment between San Jose and Merced on Thursday. Now, the agency estimates the line will open for service in 2031, though the project has faced repeated delays and cost overruns.

Construction has been under way in the Central Valley for about seven years, but the rail board’s vote is novel in the sense that it’s the first time plans to extend train tracks to a coastal region have been approved.

The train system could take riders between Fresno and San Jose in about an hour, a roughly three-hour drive by car today. Dan Richard, a former chairman of the Rail Authority Board who resigned in 2019, said the extension will help California address a jobs-housing mismatch between the disparate regions.

“Really, this state is divided between the coastal and the inland areas,” he said. “A key element of high-speed rail, apart from being a fast choo-choo train, is the ability to meld the entire state together and to balance our more under-developed areas with the more prosperous ones.”

From the outset, supporters of the project pitched the bullet train as a way to connect the state’s low-income interior with its prosperous coast. State and regional leaders said the Merced-San Jose extension moving forward will help California realize that vision . . . .

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...d-17135587.php

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by TWAK

Will Cal Train be going the same speed as the HSR trains?

No. That's why there are bypasses on the line.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Very nice design!

It looks ghastly and out of place imo. It would be nice if they could blend the designs into the characters of the communities which will have stations. When I think of the San Joaquin Valley, I think agricultural, canning, warm and dry weather. Other railroad stations in California have Mission Revival, Queen Anne and Renaissance Revival styles. The design shown here might trap heat like a green house for potential passengers or day users of onsite public amenities.

We would hope that HSR rail stations can be more than just passenger terminals. It would be nice to create transport hubs that draw in people with amenities such as newsstands, books, casual sit down dining establishments maybe small farmers markets. Anyway, hopefully the final designs are more thoughtfully planned that what is pictured in order to blend with the character of the communities.

Anyway, just my two cents.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by urban_encounter

It looks ghastly and out of place imo. It would be nice if they could blend the designs into the characters of the communities which will have stations. When I think of the San Joaquin Valley, I think agricultural, canning, warm and dry weather. Other railroad stations in California have Mission Revival, Queen Anne and Renaissance Revival styles. The design shown here might trap heat like a green house for potential passengers or day users of onsite public amenities.

We would hope that HSR rail stations can be more than just passenger terminals. It would be nice to create transport hubs that draw in people with amenities such as newsstands, books, casual sit down dining establishments maybe small farmers markets. Anyway, hopefully the final designs are more thoughtfully planned that what is pictured in order to blend with the character of the communities.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Actually, if it's like a greenhouse, that would be in line with Fresno's agricultural roots. In fact, they even have a building at the Fresno Fairgrounds called The Greenhouse. The font of the word "FRESNO" on top of the station matches the font that's used on the main grandstands at the Fairgrounds as well. Some of the other renderings also show part of the structure that resembles corrugated drain piping, which also pays homage to the agricultural roots. And if you look at some of the other images, it looks like there are some areas that look like newsstands or fast casual walk up food and retail stands, and wide enough open plazas to support farmers markets.



https://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/l...260831312.html

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

No. That's why there are bypasses on the line.

Both types of trains will travel at the same top speed in between San Francisco and San Jose, however HSR will only have one intermediate stop at SFO.

It appears that CAHSR will travel on dedicated electrified tracks between San Jose and Gilroy while Caltrain will continue to use the existing conventional tracks. I imagine that the diesel Caltrain trains will terminate at San Jose.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Both types of trains will travel at the same top speed in between San Francisco and San Jose, however HSR will only have one intermediate stop at SFO.

It appears that CAHSR will travel on dedicated electrified tracks between San Jose and Gilroy while Caltrain will continue to use the existing conventional tracks. I imagine that the diesel Caltrain trains will terminate at San Jose.

Yes, diesel service from Gilroy will terminate at Diridon. IIRC, UP was adamant that electrification not extend past Tamien (though for no particularly good reason I know of).

[Busy Bee]

If you watched the board meeting it's made crystal clear that a central part of the deal for Alt 4 is full electrification for Caltrain all the way to Gilroy.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

If you watched the board meeting it's made crystal clear that a central part of the deal for Alt 4 is full electrification for Caltrain all the way to Gilroy.

Well, they'd be stupid to build dedicated HSR tracks and not electrify the adjacent Caltrain tracks.

Hopefully the full electrification to Gilroy will open up higher speeds and the ability for a Caltrain service extension to Santa Cruz and/or Salinas using dual-modes.

[Busy Bee]

It's part of the deal, and honestly I'm okay with it. Here's the big picture: The plans have already changed from the quad-tracked fully grade separated elevated or trenched Peninsula raceway envisioned 15 years ago. The claim is the pushback to those plans is why the Authority settled on the blended system approach. I have my own theories about this, but what's done is done. I do think there was a chance the Authority pitched the highly ambitious Peninsula (and Gilroy-SJ approach) because they knew they'd likely not get it anyway and were fine with the "compromise" that runs HSR over Caltrain tracks with surgically planned overtakes and bypasses even though it would result in slower top speeds and complicated cooperation with Caltrain because they knew it would save a big chunk of change and any future grade separation through Peninsula communities would be done on the municipalities dime, at least mostly.

Once the SJ-SF raceway was DOA and "ceded", what real difference does it make if the blended system is extended even further to Gilroy along the existing row, thus trimming hundreds of millions in huge freeway crossing viaducts and bridges that we all saw in the early animations. They are now sticking along the Caltrain corridor the entire way, with most of the elaborate serpentine Diridon viaduct approaches eliminated except for the SJ led planning for an elevated Diridon station, which again the Authority can count as a savings since the station program will mostly be a municipal/Caltrain led project. Win-win in the Authorities eyes, and it will likely not make much more but a few minutes difference, a difference they are obviously trying to make up by altering plans like allowing higher speed station entry at Diridon and full 220 mph max design speed entry into the Pacheco tunnel portals. This has been the Authorities plan, accept the practicality of less ideal interoperation on the Peninsula in the meantime, live with the grade crossings and let their future removal be locally funded municipal projects and maximize the speeds between the mountain crossings.

But there is one more personal theory I have harbored for some time that explains CHSRA's willingness to except the inherent non-ideal operation dynamic on the Peninsula. And that thing is the second transbay tube. I highly suggest that the Authority has aspirations beyond just getting HSR trains to an Oakland terminal after a stop at Transbay, which is somewhat dubious in it's benefits, at least on paper outside of just [Salesforce] Transbay Terminal capacity constraints. I suspect that they actually want an eventual, either as part of Phase II or maybe something we might call Phase III, which we can safely say is decades away, trans-Diablo tunnel crossing from the some mid-East Bay point like Castro Valley or Hayward, daylighting in Pleasanton and then through a new shared Altamont Pass HSR/Regional Rail tunnel to Tracy and from Tracy a wye connection to the Phase II tracks between Stockton and Modesto. This would allow half the LA-SF trains to take the Madera-Oakland-SF route thus alleviating the operational pressures on the South Bay corridor. HSR trains bound for Phase II Sacramento could also depart SF without having the travel an additional ~120 miles over the dogleg and through the Chowchilla wye to Sacramento. The Diablo tunnel would cut the route miles in half. LA-Oakland/SF trains would also likely have a faster run time by bypassing SJ and the South Bay blended running, but by how much I haven't calculated.

Just a theory, and a worthy one in my own opinion.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Just a theory, and a worthy one in my own opinion.

The 110 vs. 220mph average speed between San Jose and Gilroy will cost express trains about 5~ minutes on their run from one end of the state to the other. However, it's still unclear to me after doing some searching, if the approved plan is to do two tracks with passing sidings or three dedicated electrified tracks between SJ and Gilroy.

The interesting issue at play is that many northbound HSR trains will terminate at San Jose yet many southbound Caltrain trains will also terminate at the same spot. As has been stated on this thread earlier, the Transbay Terminal only has the capacity to turn 4 HSR trains per hour. That capacity will increase exponentially should Transbay be transformed into a thru station via a second tube, but the capacity of the peninsula tracks will remain the same. That's why limiting the capacity of the Peninsula is a way to force the issue of building the second Transbay tube and a second HSR entrance to San Francisco via Altamont.

Also, people easily forget that the circa-2008 Altamont alignment was going to a)serve San Jose via a spur b)still be constricted on the Peninsula and so have all of the current issues without c)motivation to electrify Caltrain to San Jose and southward to Gilroy.

What is being built is a really reasonable compromise, but people don't want to hear that.

[ardecila]

Yeah I don't see any of that happening. The problem is that the various mainlines in California are not well-suited to efficient passenger service. They're all using alignments from 1880 and track design standards meant for mile-long freight trains.

So it's not easy to just plug your gleaming HSR system into a legacy line the way they do in Europe. Caltrain is a bit of an exception, because it's really straight, runs across flat terrain and is publicly owned.

What that means, though, is that extensions and spurs to the initial HSR system will likely require the construction of new lines from scratch, at tremendous cost. They're not gonna build a 2nd mountain crossing for HSR to get in the Bay Area.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by ardecila

So it's not easy to just plug your gleaming HSR system into a legacy line the way they do in Europe. Caltrain is a bit of an exception, because it's really straight, runs across flat terrain and is publicly owned.

Not sure where all of these high speed passenger railways that share intercity mainlines with freight are hiding out in Europe.

About the only new or u/c HSR construction that will share tracks with traditional freight are the base tunnels in Switzerland and Austria. The Alps represent a much more extreme physical barrier than anything on California's HSR route.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Both types of trains will travel at the same top speed in between San Francisco and San Jose, however HSR will only have one intermediate stop at SFO.

It appears that CAHSR will travel on dedicated electrified tracks between San Jose and Gilroy while Caltrain will continue to use the existing conventional tracks. I imagine that the diesel Caltrain trains will terminate at San Jose.

I read the other day they are talking about extending CalTrain into Monterey County so diesel Caltrains I suppose they could run between San Jose and Salinas. But it seems ridiculous not to electrify the entire CalTrain line and be done with diesel.

As for the line between San Jose and SF, if HSR makes only one stop it may well be passing CalTrains stopped at intermediate stations and have a considerably faster average speed between San Jose and downtown SF. I'm fairly sure I have read they also added a siding or two allowing additional "passings" but regardless, the point is that the plodding CalTrain commuter line will not hold up HSR trains.

At a few places they may reach the same top speed but I don't think that's of great importance.

A long-stalled commuter rail extension project from Gilroy to Salinas is making critical progress, and finally has an estimated arrival time.
David Schmalz
Oct 12, 2021 0

The idea for the Monterey County Rail Extension project – which would create a commuter train connection between Salinas and Gilroy – was hatched more than 20 years ago, and originally included a proposal to add stations in Castroville and Pajaro.

But as the prospect of obtaining federal funding for the project became too challenging, the Transportation Agency for Monterey County board pivoted in 2009, downsizing the project to remove the Castroville and Pajaro stations, and opting instead to pursue state funding.

That decision is starting to age well: On Sept. 22, the TAMC board approved transferring seven TAMC-owned properties to the city of Salinas at the Salinas Train Station, where TAMC has just completed constructing the first phase of the project.

At first glance, that first phase looks more like a parking project than a transportation one – where there were once buildings that obscured the view of the train station, there is now a large parking lot. But there is also a new road, an extension of Lincoln Avenue across West Market Street into the train station property, which for the first time allows buses and cars to enter and exit the train station with a signalized intersection on an often busy street. And between the parking lot and the station, there’s now a five-bay bus transfer facility.

Christina Watson, TAMC’s project manager for the rail extension, says this phase of the project was completed first because it doesn’t have any rail elements. For the two remaining phases, TAMC must coordinate with Union Pacific, which owns all the track between Salinas and Gilroy, as well as Caltrans, Caltrain and the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority.

TAMC must also acquire property from Union Pacific, and on Sept. 22 the board approved a request for proposals for a real estate consultant to steer TAMC through that process.

“There’s a lot of different elements to this project,” Watson says. “We’re excited to make as much progress as we have.”

TAMC Executive Director Todd Muck says that, if everything goes smoothly, commuter trains between Salinas and Gilroy could become a reality in three or four years . . . .

https://www.montereycountyweekly.com...1e09f4d3b.html

[TWAK]

^There are plans to electrify Capitol Corridor and even shift freight to the old Sacramento Northern Railway.

[202_Cyclist]

If CalTrain is extended to Salinas, commuter rail will extend more than 200 miles from Salinas to Auburn via CalTrain and the Capitol Corridor and 130 miles from Salinas to Stockton via CalTrain and ACE.

Tying these commuter rail systems in with high-speed rail will provide exceptional mobility for much of Northern California.


https://www.capitolcorridor.org/route-map/


https://acerail.com/wp-content/uploa...p-CC-Final.jpg

[TWAK]

^there's a proposal for Napa and Solano county as well.

Source (paywalled)

source

[202_Cyclist]

As your map shows, there is the SMART commuter rail. There is also a proposal to enhance commuter rail between Sacramento and Stockton and then farther down the Central Valley to Fresno.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I read the other day they are talking about extending CalTrain into Monterey County so diesel Caltrains I suppose they could run between San Jose and Salinas. But it seems ridiculous not to electrify the entire CalTrain line and be done with diesel.

Electrification is a serious expense, and it only pencils out financially if you're planning to run trains very frequently. Caltrain's current project will extend wires SF to Tamien, and a future round of HSR funds may extend wires to Gilroy so the HSR trainsets can operate on Caltrain.

Monterey/Santa Cruz Counties are likely to remain diesel territory for a long time since those tracks won't be used as part of the HSR project. The initial service plan to Salinas is just two trains a day in each direction on top of the Coast Starlight's 1 daily RT, and there is no service plan for Santa Cruz yet. I can't tell if those 2 trains would be Caltrain to SF or Capitol Corridor trains to Oakland or Sac (sources differ), but the end-to-end travel times will be more than twice what it takes to drive so I think the appeal will be limited at first.

[Busy Bee]

The UP territory south of Tamien will have a dedicated non-electrified track for UP freight with two Caltrain/HSR tracks fully electrified to Gilroy. It's an okay compromise, it isn't perfect but it will satisfy the notoriously bellyaching UPRR and facilitate the complete retirement of all Caltrain diesel ops...no ridiculous swapping locomotives business for the final mileage into Gilroy. Welcome to the 21st century.