NEW YORK | PA Bus Terminal (3 Towers) | FT | FLOORS

[Busy Bee]

Oh that's delicious

[NYguy]

You can see the changes here. More exposed ramp, and no residential.









But the renderings of the station are marvelous.

[colemonkee]

Oh wow. That design is phenomenal.

[NYguy]

^ And that's just a little tease.


Meanwhile, I've had a chance to sift through some of the documents. I know I will probably regret posting this, but let me just say that both the massing and the heights given and shown for the two office towers are for the DEIS study purposes only. We are at best a decade away from either of the towers being built. A long way out from even seeing a developer selected.

But what we do know is the size of the towers, so you can draw some conclusions from that. You have a 3 MSF zoned tower and a 2 MSF zoned tower, with typical mechanical space making the sizes considerably larger. Add to that the fact that the towers will be elevated over the bus terminal, and you get even more of an idea.

Anyway, some reading and graphics to go along with the new plan...



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[BK1985]

I know its far off but I hope whoever develops the office towers retain Foster so it can be a seamless vision

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by BK1985

I know its far off but I hope whoever develops the office towers retain Foster so it can be a seamless vision

I was thinking the same thing. That atrium is glorius. Normally I wouldn’t be for closing a street - in this case 41st Street - for a project. But in this case, a worthy development.

[colemonkee]

I mean, this has to be the best bus terminal in the country after this. Rarely, if ever, do you associate the words "bus terminal" with grand spaces like this.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

I mean, this has to be the best bus terminal in the country after this. Rarely, if ever, do you associate the words "bus terminal" with grand spaces like this.

It already seems in the class of a Grand Central, or a (original) Penn Station. That's significant, and it should be. We're talking about a terminal that should serve into the next century. We're alive at a time when the airports (JFK, LaGuardia, Newark) and major rail terminals (Penn Station, Grand Central) have been and are seeing major building upgrades that one day down the line will be accepted as standard for New York, the same way we accept the Empire State and Chrysler Buildings. But like those skyscrapers, things have to come into being, and it isn't always easy. We're getting to see all of this take place now, in addition to future skyscrapers (175 Park, and many others) that will come to define New York.



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https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-n...advocates-fear

[BanBrokenChatBots]

Considering the PA bus terminal is the armpit of the City this deserves nothing but applause + get two near supertall towers out of this.

[observation deck]

I would be honored to participate in this project

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by BanBrokenChatBots

Considering the PA bus terminal is the armpit of the City this deserves nothing but applause + get two near supertall towers out of this.

lol,

Sounds like the smaller tower would be near supertall but the higher one well above. I hope they aren't boxes but probably will be.

[mrnyc]

well the entrance and 41st are quite grand, but i'm really wondering what the outside of it will look like, like around the blocks, especially considering that its so large and that its what we wiil have to see.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

lol,

Sounds like the smaller tower would be near supertall but the higher one well above. I hope they aren't boxes but probably will be.

As I said, I knew I would regret posting those height figures, which aren't real figures but posted for the purposes of this study.

But I'll say it again. Forget about those numbers and designs. Neither is real. What you have is a 3msf zoned tower and a 2 msf tower zoned tower, which translates to likely a 3.5 msf + tower and a 2.5 msf + tower, beginning above a 160 ft terminal structure.


But first, speaking of the changes in the planning, the two tower alignment is not unusual, but it does cut into the views of the potential office towers. Having them both offset would have created more views. Of course, looking at Hudson Yards, that doesn't seem to be a problem in terms of getting towers leased.











But what you have here is a massing for the purposes of the environmental review. This is actually much closer to what the Port Authority was originally considering for the new terminal (and where plans were for a tower on top of the current terminal).

It's not as if this is a design that's being proposed, but necessary for the study to move forward.







But still, the two towers aligned, as oppesed to offset like the original WTC, would be no different than 30 and 10 Hudson Yards, and 1 and 2 Manhattan West.











As we know, Manhattan West was designed at a different time in New York City office space development. The original plan called for a 1,216 ft 2.4 msf tower, and a 1.6 msf 935 ft tower.

Site 729A
Northwest corner of Ninth Avenue and West 31st Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No
Height Limits: None
Max. ZFA (SF): 2,443,400

Site 729B
Southeast corner of Ninth Avenue and West 33rd Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No
Height Limits: None
Max. ZFA (SF): 1,533,851

We went from seeing the larger tower increased in size from a lowrise addition, to seeing both towers with comparable sizes of 2 msf. Both towers were gobbled up because new office space is still relatively hard to find in Manhattan, even with a few developers who somehow can't or won't get their projects off the ground.







The new, shiny bus terminal will no doubt be a star in Midtown, especially after the long history of the old terminal. Foundations at least for the new towers would be built in phase two, or the building of the new terminal. We are probably years away from knowing who the developers will be, let alone what a design would look like. But as was said earlier, hopefully the team of Foster and Partners will be around to design towers to finish the vision.

[NYguy]

https://commercialobserver.com/2024/...-retail-space/

Port Authority Bus Terminal Redevelopment to Add Office and Retail Space
$10B Project Could Start This Year, Although Funding Is Uncertain





BY MARK HALLUM
FEBRUARY 1, 2024

Two office towers and an unknown amount of retail space will come with the redevelopment of Port Authority Bus Terminal.

Those two pieces of the plan were among the revelations at a Thursday press conference by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey during which agency leaders outlined a $10 billion financing plan and renderings for the rebuild of the 73-year-old facility that it hopes to start this year.

It’s too early to tell how much office or retail space will be available to potential tenants, but Rick Cotton, the executive director of the Port Authority, told reporters that the agency is looking to markets far enough in the future to dodge the distress currently seen in the office market.

“The first buildings that are gonna get built are the station and storage building and the ramps. That’s the next four, four and a half years in front of us,” Cotton said. “The exact design in terms of the retail space, beverage space, and certainly the office buildings, are 10 years away.”

The main terminal will span 2.1 million square feet. Much of the retail space will face outward. and the permanent closure of West 41st Street between Eighth and Ninth avenues will provide more retail within an indoor atrium. A temporary terminal and new ramps are scheduled for completion in 2028 while demolition of the current building is underway.

The new main terminal will be completed in 2032, and crews could break ground before the end of 2024, according to the Port Authority.

The Port Authority plans to spend $10 billion on the rebuild with $1 billion coming from a Federal Transit Administration loan, which has not been granted at this time. An unknown amount of the funding will come from payment in lieu of taxes from whomever is chosen as a partner in the development of the office towers.

[NYguy]

A little more reading and thoughts on the development of the new bus terminal and towers.


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The bus terminal itself will rise to 160 ft+. That's 16 stories in some cases. It will be a massive structure.

The skyscrapers above will be set back from the street.


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Street level retail will go a long way to activating the streets along this massive building, great considering the various residential developments being built around it.

A look at the breakdown of the various levels inside the terminal.


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I would prefer it if the deck over lot 10 were extended over to 10th Avenue to get the full block park.


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A look at a couple of conceptual renderings, not the Foster renderings we have seen.


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One thing about this terminal, as I mentioned earlier, it will be 160 ft+, more than twice the height of the current terminal.

To put that into perspective, it will be higher than the first setback of the McGraw Hill Building, wrapping around from 8th Avenue to 11th Avenue.


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[Busy Bee]

Didn't get an answer in the other thread but what exactly is the thinking behind making the "Dyer Deck-Overs" green space versus tapping the air rights for more development? Is this a Port Authority insistence? A "safety/terrorism" thing? The structure for an earth cap park is nearly the same as it would be for a building(s). A midblock "park" across two blocks bookended by relic structures is clunky urban planning to say the least. Anyone know the history if this plan and whether or not it may change?

As far as whether or not the deck could extend all the way to Tenth, I wonder if there are strict regulations regarding access to air for the portals. Though the north tunnel portal is being rendered showing an enclosure, or at least the ramp structure with a facade skin. I assume that structure would probably be porous like the other bus level structures to facilitate air movement and exhaust. But if the eastern portals are being left open to sky for air exhaust and intake requirements one would think the same would apply to the older north tunnel portal at Eleventh. All that being said the previous study plan graphics showed a tower sitting on top of the north tunnel portal... so what gives?


PS --- Speaking of the other thread in gen dev, I think some consideration should be taken about merging the threads until the planned towers become actual proposals. Like Penn Revamp/Empire District, all this information is being duplicated between two threads and conversion is being missed. My .02

[MAC123]

The early 2030s are gonna be like 2020 again. So many large structures expected to be completed around then

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Didn't get an answer in the other thread but what exactly is the thinking behind making the "Dyer Deck-Overs" green space versus tapping the air rights for more development? Is this a Port Authority insistence? A "safety/terrorism" thing? The structure for an earth cap park is nearly the same as it would be for a building(s). A midblock "park" across two blocks bookended by relic structures is clunky urban planning to say the least. Anyone know the history if this plan and whether or not it may change?

As far as whether or not the deck could extend all the way to Tenth, I wonder if there are strict regulations regarding access to air for the portals. Though the north tunnel portal is being rendered showing an enclosure, or at least the ramp structure with a facade skin. I assume that structure would probably be porous like the other bus level structures to facilitate air movement and exhaust. But if the eastern portals are being left open to sky for air exhaust and intake requirements one would think the same would apply to the older north tunnel portal at Eleventh. All that being said the previous study plan graphics showed a tower sitting on top of the north tunnel portal... so what gives?


PS --- Speaking of the other thread in gen dev, I think some consideration should be taken about merging the threads until the planned towers become actual proposals. Like Penn Revamp/Empire District, all this information is being duplicated between two threads and conversion is being missed. My .02

Firstly, the towers in current forms are proposals. The terminal itself is a mega development, with many moving parts.

As far as the decking over goes, the Port Authority has it’s own particular sets of rules and guidelines about what it can and what it will not do. There is also what was agreed to in the many community meetings over the years. Frankly I think they should build over all of the tunnel right of ways. It’s very difficult walking around that area.

The Port Authority owns a wide swath of land on the west side. I know they have been refocused to deal primarily with transit and shipping issues. But stitching up the west side would be great. And a big tradeoff for building this massive structure through the community.

[NYguy]

Big improvement.


https://www.world-architects.com/ima...c.c4b964ca.jpg





















PortAuthorityNYNJ

[jbermingham123]

The art deco influence is incredible.

This thing looks like a hudson... or, perhaps, an old fashioned bus: