NEW YORK | Penn Station / MSG Renovation

[ardecila]

A traffic headache could be in the making, too, if MSG moves a block west and two blocks to the south. The report suggests that more sports fans and concert-goers will likely take cabs or drive to games instead of taking the subway because it’s two blocks from the subway station. There are six subway lines—the A, C, E, 1, 2 and 3 trains—directly under the current complex.

I'm sorry, I call BS. The distance from MSG to the Morgan Annex is 1200', less than a quarter mile.

Where will all those extra drivers park? I assume any parking around the stadium is already filled up during events by those who just refuse to take transit. Land values are really too high to build more parking, so anybody who decided to drive to the new MSG instead of taking transit would quickly find that the 1200' walk to Penn Station is small compared to the walk from their parking garage. On top of that, you've got bridge/tunnel tolls, gas cost, and congestion.

Plus, transit to the game will always have one big edge over driving - freedom to drink without fear of drunk driving.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by jayden

I have to say the earlier article's description regarding today's Penn Station is so very accurate. It's by far the worst experience coming into the city from the burbs; I can only imagine the nightmare of regional travelers using Amtrak.

My question is, how will all this renovation, demolition, and construction take place without making the area 10x worse for several years than it already is currently?

I come through Penn Station daily, and it is at times dangerously overcrowded, particularly on the lower level where there are limited exits. But for the most part, just as it was when the original Penn was torn down, and both MSG and 2 Penn Plaza built, the station didn't shut down. Just think of it in terms of the rebuilding of the PATH terminal. Most of the work would be above the actual station itself.

Originally Posted by ardecila

Plus, transit to the game will always have one big edge over driving - freedom to drink without fear of drunk driving.

Transit was one of the reasons MSG didn't want to move to the Farley annex, even though it's just the next block.

As far as Farley/Moynihan goes, you can see the entrances now, and it looks to be on target for a fall opening. But the big picture will be when they begin phase 2.


http://www.designboom.com/architectu...rk-01-08-2016/


[This particular image I like because it opens up this concourse to daylight (upper concourse).




Because of the layout, the ceilings on the lower concourse would still be low in some areas. They need to create a direct exit on the west end (the new Farley concourse is further west).





http://inhabitat.com/nyc/governor-cu...-penn-station/

[NYguy]

Looking back...


http://mashable.com/2015/07/20/origi.../#o0b_b8_ZEkqw


































http://www.shorpy.com/node/20588?size=_original







http://ny.curbed.com/2015/12/30/1085...icritic-argues

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I'm sorry, I call BS. The distance from MSG to the Morgan Annex is 1200', less than a quarter mile.

Where will all those extra drivers park? I assume any parking around the stadium is already filled up during events by those who just refuse to take transit. Land values are really too high to build more parking, so anybody who decided to drive to the new MSG instead of taking transit would quickly find that the 1200' walk to Penn Station is small compared to the walk from their parking garage. On top of that, you've got bridge/tunnel tolls, gas cost, and congestion.

Plus, transit to the game will always have one big edge over driving - freedom to drink without fear of drunk driving.

People will take cars, but they won't drive there. There isn't enough parking currently, and no one wants more, or the vehicular traffic associated with it.

[NYguy]

http://therealdeal.com/2016/05/03/vo...n-station-bid/

Vornado partners with Related, Skanska on Moynihan bid




May 03, 2016
By Rey Mashayekhi

Vornado Realty Trust is teaming with the Related Companies and Swedish construction giant Skanska on a bid to redevelop the James A. Farley Post Office Building, Vornado chair and CEO Steven Roth said Tuesday.

Speaking on the real estate investment trust’s first-quarter earnings call, Roth said Vornado submitted two “comprehensive proposals” to the state last month for the long-promised transformations of both Penn Station and the adjacent Farley Building.

While Vornado partnered with Related and Skanksa on the Farley building proposal — also known as the Moynihan Station project — the company submitted its plan for Penn Station “on our own,” Roth added.

Vornado is the largest commercial landlord in the area surrounding North America’s busiest train station. The REIT owns roughly 9 million square feet of space in the Penn Plaza area surrounding Penn Station, with Roth referring to the neighborhood as “Vornado’s big kahuna.”

The team of Vornado, Related and Skanska are already involved in the first phase of the Farley Building’s redevelopment, entailing underground work that is already underway. Vornado and Related were previously selected by the state in 2005 to helm a Penn Station redevelopment. Though setbacks knocked that project off course, revitalizing the train station and its surrounding area is a key part of Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s agenda.

David Greenbaum, president of the company’s New York division, said Vornado believes it “can play an important role in the transformation of this area into the gateway that New York deserves,” and “welcome[s] Gov. Cuomo’s focus” on the Penn Station and Farley Building redevelopments.

[NYguy]

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...developer-says

'Thrill Ride' at Penn Station Could Be City's Eiffel Tower, Developer Says





By Maya Rajamani
June 15, 2016

icket sales for a “thrill ride” on top of Penn Station could finance a third of the transit hub’s planned $3 billion revamp — if a Brooklyn development firm gets its way.

“The Halo,” an amusement ride with 1,200-foot vertical drops, could be “New York’s high-tech version of the Eiffel Tower: a thrill ride taller than the Empire State Building, and an unforgettable icon on the skyline,” the project’s website says.

The ride could rise on the back of the Farley Post Office building, where Moynihan Station is being built, or on top of Madison Square Garden, the Daily News reported.

"We'd been trying to bring amusement rides into the city — we’d noticed it was a trend around the world,” said Brooklyn Capital Partners president Alexandros Washburn, who served as Chief Urban Designer of the city’s Department of City Planning from 2007 to 2014 and was the first president of the Penn Station Redevelopment Corporation.

[BStyles]

When we just built to build. The original Penn Station was equipped to handle increased passenger traffic for decades to come. Trying to work around MSG is time consuming.

[streetscaper]

Governor Cuomo unveils plans for Penn Station's massive revamp

Brace yourselves, New Yorkers: a new Penn Station is officially coming—for real this time. Today, Governor Andrew Cuomo unveiled plans for the forthcoming Pennsylvania Station-Farley Complex, along with announcing the developers and builders who will collaborate on the project. The plans call for a brand new, 255,000-square-foot train hall, which will accommodate both Amtrak and Long Island Rail Road passengers, that’s scheduled to be completed by the end of 2020. (Yes, you read that date right.)

...Unsurprisingly, the partnership is made up of some of the real estate business's biggest names: Related Companies, Vornado Realty, and Skanska. Those three companies will work together, using the designs proposed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, to bring the revamped Penn Station to life.






Three Major Takeaways:

1. The James A. Farley Post Office building has been "reimagined from the original plan," which had called for the building to hold only Amtrak. Now, it will measure 250,000 square feet (larger than Grand Central Terminal), and will be known as the Moynihan Train Hall. It will hold Amtrak and the LIRR, along with 700,000 square feet of retail and office space. The design is similar to the renderings, created by SOM, that were revealed in January, with a dramatic glass skylight (meant to reference McKim, Mead & White's old Penn Station) arching over the concourse.

2. The LIRR concourses that currently sit within Penn Station will be redeveloped, and headed up by the MTA. This will include "nearly tripling the width of the 33rd Street Corridor, which is among the busiest sections of Penn Station and stretches along the station’s lower level from Seventh to Eighth Avenue." An RFP will be issued for this work today, and a contractor may be chosen before the end of the year.

3. Both subway stations that service Penn Station—the A/C/E at Eighth Avenue and the 1/2/3 at Seventh Avenue—will be completely redone in keeping with the MTA’s plans, announced earlier this year, to upgrade 31 stations throughout the entire system.

LIRR Concourse Renderings:

[ardecila]

^ Ugh. This is lipstick on a pig. All the shiny signage and well-dressed stock figures can't make up for the fact that Penn Station is functionally obsolete and spatially far too cramped.

This is not going to compete with any major European train terminal for architecture or functionality. The architecture seems about equally boring to a major Japanese train terminal, but without the efficient train movements and passenger flows.

[NYer34]

Originally Posted by ardecila

^ Ugh. This is lipstick on a pig.
This is not going to compete with any major European train terminal for architecture or functionality.

Why? What are the specific crucial features in 'any' major European terminal that are missing here?

[NYguy]

Not surprised Vornado/Related got it again. Between the two of them, that entire swath of Manhattan all the way to the river could be their own individual city. Call it Vornated.



http://therealdeal.com/2016/09/27/co...nihan-station/

The announcement, however, did come with a few surprises: one that AMTRAK and LIRR will share space in the Farley Post Office, rather than just house a train hall for the former. The second was that the design-build team will not be tackling a redesign of Penn Station. That portion of the project will be handled by a separate request for proposals. The MTA is planning to rebuild the current LIRR concourse in Penn Station — what Cuomo on Tuesday referred to as catacombs — and two subway stations. The agency will release an RFP for that work on Tuesday.

ESD and Amtrak, meanwhile, will issue a separate RFP to redevelop the current Amtrak space in Penn Station. The new LIRR concourse at 33rd Street will be widened to three-times its current 25 feet, have higher ceilings and feature LED video screens on the ceiling that will project blue skies — a far cry from the hellish metaphor that the governor is fond of using when it comes to the station but not quite as illustrious as a previous design option that would have brought natural light down to the “catacombs.”

.....In response to a question at an Association for Better New York event on Tuesday, Cuomo indicated that there are no plans to relocate Madison Square Garden, though its operating permit at its current space expires in seven years. Cuomo said the state has the option down the road to buy part of the stadium to expand Penn Station, but MSG likes its current location.

.....“This isn’t a plan. I don’t announce plans with caveats. This is what is going to happen,” Cuomo said. “We’re so accustomed to projects that get announced but don’t materialize. You don’t think we can do it? Look at the Tappan Zee Bridge. We are doing it.”

http://rew-online.com/2016/09/27/cuo...ation-by-2020/

The Long Island Rail Road concourses at Penn Station will all be rebuilt and redone by the MTA. Meanwhile, the Empire State Development Corporation will work with Amtrak to redevelop the other portions of Penn Station. “Pennsylvania Station gets 650,000 passengers per day – more than all the airports combined,ˮ said Gov. Cuomo. “It is triple the capacity that the facility was designed for and it is not representative of New York. It is dirty, it is dingy, it is dark and … the equivalent of the LaGuardia Airport, which has now become a national laughing stock. It is decrepit and it’s affront to riders to use it.”

Cuomo said the new train hall will be “magnificentˮ adding, “It will become a destination in and of itself. This will all be high-end. This will be the best of the best. It will have every new accommodation used in any train hall or airport anywhere on the globe.ˮ

[mrnyc]

well regardless of when moynihan opens, the existing areas of penn do need rehabbed, so sure what the heck. it will look very weirdly out of date and will need redone yet again when the farley is finally converted though.

[streetscaper]

Okay so Ticketing and platform access for Amtrak and LIRR is moving to Moynihan

Will the Amtrak and LIRR sections of the current Penn station remain Amtrak and LIRR sections, respectively, after the overhaul?

So that there will be two ticketing areas and multiple platform access points for Amtrak and LIRR in both Moynihan and the current Penn Station, right?

[k1052]

The new hall looks fine. The remodeled LIRR concourse however is hideous.

[chris08876]

2020?

That would be nice if it actually happens. I hope it does. Given the bureaucratic nightmare that this project will be and has been since talks of upgrading Penn, it would be a change if this is finished by the end of 2020.

[De Minimis NY]

The Moynihan train hall looks fine and will be a nice extension of Penn Station, but the fact remains that any deal that leaves MSG in place (and thus Penn Station completely underground) is an insult to the people of NY.

[phoenixboi08]

Originally Posted by chris08876

2020?

That would be nice if it actually happens. I hope it does. Given the bureaucratic nightmare that this project will be and has been since talks of upgrading Penn, it would be a change if this is finished by the end of 2020.

Twitter: @2AvSagas

It's not that difficult...4 years a reasonable amount of time to construct the Moynihan Hall (the station [annex], itself, is Farley, now?), expand the existing LIRR concourse (underneath 8th Ave, right?), and reconstruct the ACE and 123 subway stations (something the MTA was already preparing to do; although, I'm unclear if these two stations were included in the original press release).

The point of today's announcement, is that they've already moved through the procurement process (i.e. they actually have private partners/designs) and have funding/financing lined up).

Those two things are typically what drags out the process.


Twitter: @2AvSagas

What remains to be seen is just what ESD (and Cuomo, tbh) see as next-steps, regarding platform improvements at the existing station, given that the governor doesn't appear supportive of moving MSG; also, rethinking some of the existing proposals for Penn South, as part of the Gateway Program.

[C.]

Fancy new train hall, but same old shit at platform level. Lipstick on a pig?

Would love to see what's being done in ways of capacity improvements.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by De Minimis NY

The Moynihan train hall looks fine and will be a nice extension of Penn Station, but the fact remains that any deal that leaves MSG in place (and thus Penn Station completely underground) is an insult to the people of NY.

Agree. A new Sports Arena should have been part of the Hudson Yards superproject.

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by CIA

Fancy new train hall, but same old shit at platform level. Lipstick on a pig?

Would love to see what's being done in ways of capacity improvements.

Do you guys even read the articles?


Moving Amtrak from Penn station has to help alleviate some congestion.
Widening the new LIRR concourse at 33rd Street to three-times its current 25 feet (which will also have higher ceilings) has to alleviate some congestion
Having LIRR platform access from Moynihan has to alleviate some congestion
Having some LIRR go to Grand Central with East Side Access has to alleviate some congestion