California High Speed Rail Thread

[Obadno]

Southwest HSR loops Between LA, San Diego, Vegas, Phoenix and Tucson would be awesome but I dont see it happening bro's

Well not for several decades that is.

There are already things like Flixbus https://www.flixbus.com/bus-routes and JetsuiteX https://www.jetsuitex.com/destinations are both staring out in the emerging great southwest regional connections.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

Very true from Palm Springs to Phoenix, but when will CHSR build its lines from LA to SD?

There is no specific date in the current political climate. If Clinton had defeated Trump (well, actually she did), there would be way more federal money headed to rail nationwide instead of cutbacks and the usual harassment. Trump is likely headed back to his perch in Trump Tower in 2020 so we should see a return of TIGER grants, robust intercity rail funding, etc.

This graphic is a bit out-of-date but it illustrates the options that are to be studied:
http://www.hsr.ca.gov/Programs/State..._sandiego.html

Obviously, the eastern option favors SD>Phoenix whereas the western option favors SD to NoCal. However, you also see the southern route near LA Union that would be necessary for trains that originate in SD to continue north to NoCal.

My hunch is that switching trains at LA Union for service from NoCal to San Diego won't be a big deal, and therefore save billions in the cost necessary to build a thru connection, but that's why these things are studied.

Additionally, land values within the LA basin is amongst the highest in the nation.

Most of the rail ROW's in the LA basin are 100 feet wide, which is insanely wide by national standards. That width will easily accommodate 4 parallel tracks - 2 for freight and 2 for electrified intercity passenger rail and electrified commuter rail.

Judging from Google Earth it looks like there is a 100-foot ROW available pretty much everywhere from Ontario Airport eastward to San Bernadino and over the hills to Palm Springs. The big obstruction is this rail yard, which will have to be bridged or tunneled under:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pa...4d-116.5452921

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

There is no specific date in the current political climate. If Clinton had defeated Trump (well, actually she did), there would be way more federal money headed to rail nationwide instead of cutbacks and the usual harassment. Trump is likely headed back to his perch in Trump Tower in 2020 so we should see a return of TIGER grants, robust intercity rail funding, etc.

This graphic is a bit out-of-date but it illustrates the options that are to be studied:
http://www.hsr.ca.gov/Programs/State..._sandiego.html

Obviously, the eastern option favors SD>Phoenix whereas the western option favors SD to NoCal. However, you also see the southern route near LA Union that would be necessary for trains that originate in SD to continue north to NoCal.

My hunch is that switching trains at LA Union for service from NoCal to San Diego won't be a big deal, and therefore save billions in the cost necessary to build a thru connection, but that's why these things are studied.








Most of the rail ROW's in the LA basin are 100 feet wide, which is insanely wide by national standards. That width will easily accommodate 4 parallel tracks - 2 for freight and 2 for electrified intercity passenger rail and electrified commuter rail.

Judging from Google Earth it looks like there is a 100-foot ROW available pretty much everywhere from Ontario Airport eastward to San Bernadino and over the hills to Palm Springs. The big obstruction is this rail yard, which will have to be bridged or tunneled under:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pa...4d-116.5452921

I dont think getting transportation funding out of the Trump admin is actually as difficult as the left wing is sqwaking. Compared to a normal Republican he has expressed many times his support for a massive infrastructure bill.

Policy wise he is roughly a democrat from 20 years ago.

As usual its congress that is the biggest obstacle and mostly useless vestigial organ of the government.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I dont think getting transportation funding out of the Trump admin is actually as difficult as the left wing is sqwaking. Compared to a normal Republican he has expressed many times his support for a massive infrastructure bill. As usual its congress that is the biggest obstacle and mostly useless vestigial organ of the government.

The last Republican President to sign a pro-transit, pro-rail bill was Nixon's UMTA in 1970. It funded a bunch of stuff we see around the country today (MARTA, Baltimore Subway, Miami Metrorail, Buffalo's Subway) plus it was a backdoor bailout of NYC and Chicago since they were able to avoid state/county/city bailouts of the MTA and the L for deferred maintenance.

Since then, nothing explicit has passed under a Republican. Reagan signed off on the Big Dig, but that wasn't rail, obviously. I have actually read the entire 1982 Transportation Bill and there were a few handouts for bike trails and rail back then when earmarks were still a thing.

But after Newt Gingrich, and certainly during the reign of Mitch McConnel, there have zero earmarks, excepting the Olmstead Lock & Dam $3 billion that was slipped into one of the government shut-down bills by you-guessed-it, Mitch McConnell. And where is the Olmstead Lock & Dam? In Kentucky - er - between Kentucky and Illinois.

I'll repeat that there really needs to be an interstate coalition to get rail built between California, Nevada, and Arizona. That will require the state of Diane Feinstein, etc., collaborating with the states of Barry Goldwater and Harry Reid. In the past, these sorts of efforts happened all of the time. Unfortunately, the Republican party since Gringrich went nuts and sensible coalitions haven't occurred in 20~ years.

[the undertaker]

Metro Board Approves Link US Union Station Run-Through Tracks

https://la.streetsblog.org/2019/06/2...hrough-tracks/

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The last Republican President to sign a pro-transit, pro-rail bill was Nixon's UMTA in 1970. It funded a bunch of stuff we see around the country today (MARTA, Baltimore Subway, Miami Metrorail, Buffalo's Subway) plus it was a backdoor bailout of NYC and Chicago since they were able to avoid state/county/city bailouts of the MTA and the L for deferred maintenance.

Since then, nothing explicit has passed under a Republican. Reagan signed off on the Big Dig, but that wasn't rail, obviously. I have actually read the entire 1982 Transportation Bill and there were a few handouts for bike trails and rail back then when earmarks were still a thing.

But after Newt Gingrich, and certainly during the reign of Mitch McConnel, there have zero earmarks, excepting the Olmstead Lock & Dam $3 billion that was slipped into one of the government shut-down bills by you-guessed-it, Mitch McConnell. And where is the Olmstead Lock & Dam? In Kentucky - er - between Kentucky and Illinois.

I'll repeat that there really needs to be an interstate coalition to get rail built between California, Nevada, and Arizona. That will require the state of Diane Feinstein, etc., collaborating with the states of Barry Goldwater and Harry Reid. In the past, these sorts of efforts happened all of the time. Unfortunately, the Republican party since Gringrich went nuts and sensible coalitions haven't occurred in 20~ years.

100%

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I have actually read the entire 1982 Transportation Bill

Kudos to you for doing that.

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I'll repeat that there really needs to be an interstate coalition to get rail built between California, Nevada, and Arizona.

I couldn't agree more.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The last Republican President to sign a pro-transit, pro-rail bill was Nixon's UMTA in 1970. It funded a bunch of stuff we see around the country today (MARTA, Baltimore Subway, Miami Metrorail, Buffalo's Subway) plus it was a backdoor bailout of NYC and Chicago since they were able to avoid state/county/city bailouts of the MTA and the L for deferred maintenance.

Since then, nothing explicit has passed under a Republican. Reagan signed off on the Big Dig, but that wasn't rail, obviously. I have actually read the entire 1982 Transportation Bill and there were a few handouts for bike trails and rail back then when earmarks were still a thing.

But after Newt Gingrich, and certainly during the reign of Mitch McConnel, there have zero earmarks, excepting the Olmstead Lock & Dam $3 billion that was slipped into one of the government shut-down bills by you-guessed-it, Mitch McConnell. And where is the Olmstead Lock & Dam? In Kentucky - er - between Kentucky and Illinois.

I'll repeat that there really needs to be an interstate coalition to get rail built between California, Nevada, and Arizona. That will require the state of Diane Feinstein, etc., collaborating with the states of Barry Goldwater and Harry Reid. In the past, these sorts of efforts happened all of the time. Unfortunately, the Republican party since Gringrich went nuts and sensible coalitions haven't occurred in 20~ years.

Do you really think Arizona of 1960 is anything like Arizona today?

Why are you comparing the Current admin that has EXPRESSLY STATED it wants a massive infrastructure bill to Bush's?

The only reason there is not currently an infrastructure bill being debated in congress is because the Congressional democrats dont want to work with Trump for political reasons. Trump has specifically asked Pelosi to work on infrastructure multiple times.

Now you are correct the other idiots in congress, senate republicans, will be a bitch to deal with but you have a house and a president that would work on infrastructure even if McConnell would be reluctant.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Do you really think Arizona of 1960 is anything like Arizona today?

Why are you comparing the Current admin that has EXPRESSLY STATED it wants a massive infrastructure bill to Bush's?

The only reason there is not currently an infrastructure bill being debated in congress is because the Congressional democrats dont want to work with Trump for political reasons. Trump has specifically asked Pelosi to work on infrastructure multiple times.

Now you are correct the other idiots in congress, senate republicans, will be a bitch to deal with but you have a house and a president that would work on infrastructure even if McConnell would be reluctant.

JajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaJajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaJajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja!

"The Trump Administration wants to cut funding for new transit projects by 39 percent and slash funding for Amtrak by 23 percent — even as it raises highway spending — the preliminary 2020 budget reveals."

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/...ransit-amtrak/

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Do you really think Arizona of 1960 is anything like Arizona today?

Why are you comparing the Current admin that has EXPRESSLY STATED it wants a massive infrastructure bill to Bush's?

The only reason there is not currently an infrastructure bill being debated in congress is because the Congressional democrats dont want to work with Trump for political reasons. Trump has specifically asked Pelosi to work on infrastructure multiple times.

Now you are correct the other idiots in congress, senate republicans, will be a bitch to deal with but you have a house and a president that would work on infrastructure even if McConnell would be reluctant.

the willful ignorance displayed by trumpanzees is freaking unbelievable

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Do you really think Arizona of 1960 is anything like Arizona today?

Why are you comparing the Current admin that has EXPRESSLY STATED it wants a massive infrastructure bill to Bush's?

The only reason there is not currently an infrastructure bill being debated in congress is because the Congressional democrats dont want to work with Trump for political reasons. Trump has specifically asked Pelosi to work on infrastructure multiple times.

Now you are correct the other idiots in congress, senate republicans, will be a bitch to deal with but you have a house and a president that would work on infrastructure even if McConnell would be reluctant.

Please Tell Me You're Joking

Do you really think his own party is going to pass an ambitious infra bill? They aren't going to spend ONE dime! They don't have a dime anyways, they gave it all to rich folks who didn't need it and corporations making record profits and hardly paying any taxes in the first place. And even if they did they'd just figure out a way to give it to the Pentagon/MIC. Wake up kid, doo doo's coming out your mouth. President game show host is a loathsome confidence artist and conscienceless self-promoter without precedent. Some people knew it years ago and some people still don't, but with time all will. Well maybe not all, every fanatical cult has true believers that are fools to the grave.

[mousquet]

I'm pretty pissed at what's happening. I don't care whether human industry would be responsible for so-called climate change or not.
That's not even the point. The only point is it's always far better to be clean than filthy, and y'all know it.
It just feels better. You all feel better after taking a good shower.
So that you don't stink, pigs.

According to our news over here, the Trump administration has been much much busier at messing up US environmental regulations than at funding efficient infrastructures, which is quite some concern here in Western Europe.

Just beware of short-term money. It certainly doesn't mean serious innovation or survival in our experience... It only means stupid greed.
Senile fossil Mr Trump doesn't seem to be aware. I surely would call him the same if I had to face him for real. Unlike him, I'm nothing in the world, then I don't give a crap.

For instance, when Michigan's national parks are completely ruined by highways and pipelines, your country's done and your progeny has to move.

[Obadno]

Its like you people didnt even read my whole post

Lol whatever, the guy publicly advocates for infrastructure bills which is absolutely true. Raging about Trump because the GOP generally does not support infrastructure and Transit is just partisan idiocy.

Which is exactly why there will not be an infrastructure bill despite the current president obviously being willing to sign one because he wants one.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Its like you people didnt even read my whole post

Lol whatever, the guy publicly advocates for infrastructure bills which is absolutely true. Raging about Trump because the GOP generally does not support infrastructure and Transit is just partisan idiocy.

Which is exactly why there will not be an infrastructure bill despite the current president obviously being willing to sign one because he wants one.

He also publicly advocated for "draining the swamp" and "fighting for the little guy." I bet you believe that too.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by badrunner

He also publicly advocated for "draining the swamp" and "fighting for the little guy." I bet you believe that too.

This has nothing to do with what I believe. The current admin has been beating the infrastructure drum since the campaigns of 2016.

Of any recent republican president that would mean to me the current one is the best chance you are going to have to get an infrastructure bill passed outside of some unlikely future democrat super majority.

But you guys are more interested in having a Trump bitch fest so why bother? Partisan nonsense

[badrunner]

Infrastructure can be anything - highways, oil pipelines etc. The post you were responding to specifically stated:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The last Republican President to sign a pro-transit, pro-rail bill was Nixon's UMTA in 1970.

Which, incidentally, is what this thread is about...

I also like how you completely ignored this:

"The Trump Administration wants to cut funding for new transit projects by 39 percent and slash funding for Amtrak by 23 percent — even as it raises highway spending — the preliminary 2020 budget reveals."

So yeah, keep beating that infrastructure drum. It's all the democrats fault

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by Obadno

The current admin has been beating the infrastructure drum since the campaigns of 2016.

Along with all the other Democratic positions he co-opted and sold to the hoards of low information voters

[electricron]

Stop blaming Trump for California's Governors slowing down the CHSR project. The democratic governor of California slowed future construction funding by the state all by himself.
It is way over budget, way late, and poorly managed. And you still expect the rest of the country to fund it? Golly, just this past week they announced their preferred alternate build between SJ and Gilroy. We are still waiting the preferred alternate build between Bakersfield and Los Angeles, Los Angeles to San Diego, and Merced to Sacramento. Have they or have they not finalized the preferred alternate build for Gilroy to Merced, and Los Angeles to Anaheim yet?

You can't spend money building something you have not finalized where and what to build, even if you have it, which they do not.
Golly, it should not take 12+ years (three Presidential terms) to decide exactly where and what to build, and how much it will ultimately cost.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Its like you people didnt even read my whole post

Lol whatever, the guy publicly advocates for infrastructure bills which is absolutely true.

He has lied about everything his entire life, but you're believing him.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

Stop blaming Trump for California's Governors slowing down the CHSR project.

If Clinton or any other Democrat had been elected, federal money would be flowing freely to CAHSR. We'd be much further along than we are now, meaning the project couldn't have served as a wedge issue, and so Newsom (or whoever won the office after Brown) would be under no pressure to take their foot off the gas.

Obstructionists intentionally cause problems - especially budget problems - to create wedge issues that they themselves frame in such a way as to doom their target. It's been going on since Ancient Greece. It keeps working because a low percentage of the public recognizes the behavior, including plenty of internet forum know-it-alls.