CHICAGO | City Casino

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Of course it could, with the right creativity, flexibility, cost, and firm. Will it though? It's hard to think of any Casino, originally built as such, that is really a striking piece of tasteful design. My minds not coming up with an example if anyone can fill me in. I just have relatively low confidence that a casino operator will be intent on making the integration of public space and fitting respectful design for the site the highest priority. I could be wrong of course but I wouldn't like the odds.

Well it's kind of unprecedented to build a casino on a compact site like this in the US. Most casinos are on huge greenfield or brownfield sites, not downtown, and they're appealing to a very middle-brow or low-brow audience so no need to spend money on good design.

Vegas has some casinos that I would describe as tasteful and well-designed (new Sahara aka SLS, Cosmopolitan, etc) but they're certainly not compact.

As marothisu mentioned, Macau is very much a real city and there are tons of vertical-format casinos on tight sites. Good design is not widespread but there are some nice examples like Altira or StarWorld... but also the whole thing about Asian cities is that most buildings are butt-ugly but the ensemble ends up being great urbanism due to sheer density.

[gandalf612]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

You think I'm pining for it to remain a surface parking lot. Seriously? A blind man could see that any future building would have unique upper-level integrated pedestrian access to help tie in the Wrigley Building, Northbridge, Realtor’s building, and Michigan Avenue together with its presence. Either a building there could effectively turn its back on that connectivity and its surroundings (like its Nordstrom neighbor to the north does) or it could make it a priority by taking opportunistic advantage by making it one of Chicago's most interesting dynamic public spaces in the city. A promise that John Buck made when he developed Northbridge back in the 90's promising to give Chicago its equivalent of Rockafeller Center, promise not delivered. If it is a largely windowless hulk of a casino monstrosity my bet it would be more the former, even if built in a tower form.

I'm taking issue with you saying anything would be taking away from the site when currently the site is a surface parking lot with none of the things you cited. You mean that you want a building that connects with it's surroundings? Cool. That's not what you said.

[marothisu]

Greg Hinz reported that MGM apparently dropped out citing high taxes. Can anybody verify that? He also reported that Malaysian operator Genting might be putting their name into the mix now. I believe they operate the one in NYC near JFK and I've been to their one near Kuala Lumpur before (which is at the top of a mountain and has amazing views in the gondola to get up there).

Something about The 78 and Neil Bluhm's firm too and a possibility of building something there..

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Greg Hinz reported that MGM apparently dropped out citing high taxes. Can anybody verify that? He also reported that Malaysian operator Genting might be putting their name into the mix now. I believe they operate the one in NYC near JFK and I've been to their one near Kuala Lumpur before (which is at the top of a mountain and has amazing views in the gondola to get up there).

Something about The 78 and Neil Bluhm's firm too and a possibility of building something there..

“MGM expects to reach certain pre-COVID business levels later this year and is mulling opportunities in other states, including Texas, Florida, and Georgia. But “Chicago is just complicated,” MGM Resorts International CEO Bill Hornbuckle said on the call. That’s despite MGM having no presence in Illinois.

“The history there in Chicago, the tax and the notion of an integrated resort, at scale, don’t necessarily marry up," said Hornbuckle. "While I think they’ve had some improvement, we’re not overly keen or focused at this point in time there.”

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/gove...sino-giant-mgm

“ KUALA LUMPUR (April 23): Genting Group, which will open Resorts World Las Vegas on June 24, are among companies keen on a Chicago casino resort project, according to a report.

An article in the Las Vegas Review-Journal said no decision was made so far regarding the location of the casino resort set to open in 2025.

However, prospective sites include locations along the Lake Michigan waterfront, near the Soldier Field and near McCormick Place, the largest convention centre in North America.”

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/artic...ect-—-report

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Greg Hinz reported that MGM apparently dropped out citing high taxes. Can anybody verify that? He also reported that Malaysian operator Genting might be putting their name into the mix now. I believe they operate the one in NYC near JFK and I've been to their one near Kuala Lumpur before (which is at the top of a mountain and has amazing views in the gondola to get up there).

Something about The 78 and Neil Bluhm's firm too and a possibility of building something there..

Genting would be great. I worked a bit on the Resorts World in Vegas which is very high design (as casinos go). Their proposed Miami resort is very urban also. I would love someone to come in with Asian and UK experience so they don't immediately default to the American operating model.

[Sky88]

It seems that the Chicago Thompson Center site will be out of the race for the site of the new casino.

Illinois officially puts Chicago’s imperiled Thompson Center up for sale

By Matt Hickman • May 4, 2021 • Architecture, Midwest, News, Preservation

The years-in-the-making move to offload the 3-acre James R. Thompson Center at 100 West Randolph Street in downtown Chicago is finally moving ahead. Yesterday, news broke that the State of Illinois, the property’s owner, has officially put the glass-encased, 17-story governmental office building on the market. Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker and the Illinois Department of Central Management Services (CMS) announced the issuance of a request for proposals for the sale of the property, signaling that the redevelopment—and potential future demolition—of the site is officially underway.

Last month, Alderman Brendan Reilly introduced a rezoning ordinance that would allow for a new building as large as 2 million square feet to replace the Thompson Center, an attractive-to-developers move that opens up the possibility of a new Chicago super-tall skyscraper of 100 stories or more being erected at the site down the road. The ordinance is awaiting a vote from the full Chicago City Council.

http://www.archpaper.com/2021/05/ill...er-up-for-sale

[ardecila]

That doesn't follow; I don't think the state has put any conditions on the sale that would preclude a casino. The fact that it's up for sale is a good thing for any would-be casino developers.

[Sky88]

Originally Posted by ardecila

That doesn't follow; I don't think the state has put any conditions on the sale that would preclude a casino. The fact that it's up for sale is a good thing for any would-be casino developers.

I think the idea is to build a 100-story office tower and not a casino.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Sky88

I think the idea is to build a 100-story office tower and not a casino.

Spoiler Alert: There will not be a 100-story office tower built at this location. Or anywhere else in Chicago.

And that's.........actually okay.

[TR Devlin]

Originally Posted by Sky88

I think the idea is to build a 100-story office tower and not a casino.

In the best of times, a 100-story office tower would be a long shot.

In today's market it's delusional. See attached article:

Downtown Chicago office vacancy could exceed 20%
Devastated market could get worse as new projects come online amid leasing woes, CBRE finds

[west-town-brad]

Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, but how about:

Casino and new Bears Dome built on United Center parking lots, creating a new 365-day entertainment district and overall service jobs bonanza between concerts, Bears games, Bulls games, Blackhawk games and the Casino.

Toss in a new CTA train stop for a cherry on top.

Maybe we finally get a Super Bowl.

Solider Field to be converted to MLS use as others have mentioned.

[Barrelfish]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, but how about:

Casino and new Bears Dome built on United Center parking lots, creating a new 365-day entertainment district and overall service jobs bonanza between concerts, Bears games, Bulls games, Blackhawk games and the Casino.

Toss in a new CTA train stop for a cherry on top.

Maybe we finally get a Super Bowl.

Solider Field to be converted to MLS use as others have mentioned.

I like the idea of UC + Casino + L stop + developing the parking lots into an entertainment district. Obviously Wrigleyville is the model, but other cities do it as well. In Nashville, the Predators stadium is right off of Broadway. And in Memphis, the Grizzlies stadium is right off of Beale. So it's very easy to go to a bar before or after a game.

However, I don't think moving the Bears there would help this goal that much (even if they do need a new stadium somewhere). There just aren't that many days a year where an NFL stadium draws people in. ~10 Bears games per year, plus maybe a handful of concerts. So call it 15-20 days a year when it is bringing people to the area.

By contrast, the UC has 40+ Bulls games and 40+ Blackhawks games a year, plus a good number of concerts, the circus, etc. So call it 100+ nights a year.

You also have to consider that gigantic buildings like stadiums really hurt walkability and the more you have the trickier it becomes. Imagine getting out of a game at the United Center in February and having to walk around an 80000 seat NFL stadium to get to a cool bar on the other side. You'd probably just head home instead.

You would have to lay out the district carefully to avoid this. In the worst case, you end up with Philadelphia: 3 giant stadiums, in a sea of parking lots

[ardecila]

Yes, football stadiums are the least urban-friendly of all the major sports, simply because of their size, the low number of events and the demand from fans to tailgate.

I think Soldier Field strikes a really good compromise by being surrounded by "Chicago's front yard" rather than surrounded by neighborhoods. It's easier and more aesthetic to blend massive parking infrastructure into a huge park than into a city neighborhood. It has transit access at Roosevelt or Metra Electric, but it's far enough to require a decent walk. Since neither tailgaters nor transit users are really happy with the situation, I'd say they have reached a proper compromise.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by Barrelfish

I like the idea of UC + Casino + L stop + developing the parking lots into an entertainment district. Obviously Wrigleyville is the model, but other cities do it as well. In Nashville, the Predators stadium is right off of Broadway. And in Memphis, the Grizzlies stadium is right off of Beale. So it's very easy to go to a bar before or after a game.

However, I don't think moving the Bears there would help this goal that much (even if they do need a new stadium somewhere). There just aren't that many days a year where an NFL stadium draws people in. ~10 Bears games per year, plus maybe a handful of concerts. So call it 15-20 days a year when it is bringing people to the area.

By contrast, the UC has 40+ Bulls games and 40+ Blackhawks games a year, plus a good number of concerts, the circus, etc. So call it 100+ nights a year.

You also have to consider that gigantic buildings like stadiums really hurt walkability and the more you have the trickier it becomes. Imagine getting out of a game at the United Center in February and having to walk around an 80000 seat NFL stadium to get to a cool bar on the other side. You'd probably just head home instead.

You would have to lay out the district carefully to avoid this. In the worst case, you end up with Philadelphia: 3 giant stadiums, in a sea of parking lots

I guess I was looking at the fact that UC is already a sea of parking lots so if an NFL stadium is going to happen, do we want two areas of the city with seas of parking, or one?

Regardless, for solid examples of well integrated stadiums check out:

1. US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis
2. Ford Field in Detroit

[JK47]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

“MGM expects to reach certain pre-COVID business levels later this year and is mulling opportunities in other states, including Texas, Florida, and Georgia. But “Chicago is just complicated,” MGM Resorts International CEO Bill Hornbuckle said on the call. That’s despite MGM having no presence in Illinois.

“The history there in Chicago, the tax and the notion of an integrated resort, at scale, don’t necessarily marry up," said Hornbuckle. "While I think they’ve had some improvement, we’re not overly keen or focused at this point in time there.”[/url]

Probably too expensive to subvert the political structure like they've done elsewhere. MGM has a bad history with fire safety (they don't give a shit about rules, codes, or safety in general) and speaking as someone whose family was threatened by Kerkorian's "associates" I'm glad they're taking their bullshit to states with, checking the list, horrible safety records. That definitely tracks.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by JK47

Probably too expensive to subvert the political structure like they've done elsewhere. MGM has a bad history with fire safety (they don't give a shit about rules, codes, or safety in general) and speaking as someone whose family was threatened by Kerkorian's "associates" I'm glad they're taking their bullshit to states with, checking the list, horrible safety records. That definitely tracks.

Could a "sports district" located by the UC be designed to be easily converted to an alternative convention center for some of the 200+ days it's not hosting sports? And how hard would it be to place some of that parking under the playing field, minimizing the "seas of parking" factor? It seems like making the area more permeable to pedestrians would also alleviate the distance fans might have to walk to get to local bars.

[davytudope]

Originally Posted by emathias

Could a "sports district" located by the UC be designed to be easily converted to an alternative convention center for some of the 200+ days it's not hosting sports? And how hard would it be to place some of that parking under the playing field, minimizing the "seas of parking" factor? It seems like making the area more permeable to pedestrians would also alleviate the distance fans might have to walk to get to local bars.

The UC claims they host over 200 events each year

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

I guess I was looking at the fact that UC is already a sea of parking lots so if an NFL stadium is going to happen, do we want two areas of the city with seas of parking, or one?

Regardless, for solid examples of well integrated stadiums check out:

1. US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis
2. Ford Field in Detroit

Detroit is the best model to follow. Its parking footprints are compact. Plus its got Greektown Casino nearby and the area is walkable without the stadiums feeling too imposing.

As was mentioned earlier, I believe there's restrictions on the casinos placement within proximity of schools and churches. But the lots along the pink line appear to be removed from those buffer zones. The casino could build a hotel tower closest to the Eisenhower acting as a prominent billboard of sorts.

I like the idea of the bears stadium across from the UC. It would probably require almost all the lots to the North, removing Warren blvd to fit. But there's still space left over on the edges for parking decks. Again, just three to four 4-5 story parking decks will do. It hasn't been a problem for Detroit.

[The Lurker]

Greektown Casino is both a very good and very bad example. While it integrates beautifully with the neighborhood the hotel tower sits on a massive parking deck that spans 13 floors and 2 city blocks. Imagine a parking deck as big as the OPO.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by The Lurker

Greektown Casino is both a very good and very bad example. While it integrates beautifully with the neighborhood the hotel tower sits on a massive parking deck that spans 13 floors and 2 city blocks. Imagine a parking deck as big as the OPO.

Yeah, actually I had forgotten how enormous that garage is. Although I suppose the architecture could be improved. There's a garage right on the riverfront just down the street from Greektown that was made to mimic an old auto plant, it's really well designed with brick and limestone accents. Though I'd expect casinos to look more modern, the garage components end up being massive blank boxes. They could build the parking above the gaming floors in the structural plenum, much like is done in convention halls, but I think this strategy is less practiced as you always hear about water, corrosion and structural issues plaguing rooftop garages, affecting the space below. It's just easier and cheaper to build them pre-cast off to the side.