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  #101  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:48 AM
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chris08876 chris08876 is offline
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^^^^

That's unfortunate for California. And look, I get it, the equity... but in the long run... not good for the future masses of newcomers or folks that want to make it and maybe don't have the luxury of inheriting intergenerational wealth. Hell, how about immigrants, poor ones.

More housing is needed and it needs to be forced. Less regulation, aggressive zoning, mitigating community input and letting industry and housing flourish.

But that's if folks care about the middle and lower classes, like they like to tell themselves that they care but not really. If they continue to support California building policies and regulations and zoning, they really don't care about the poor or providing an environment for future immigrants to flourish (without great suffering).

I find it asinine that a place like Texas or Florida can pump out the housing, but a place like Cali, with all its wealth and powerhouse industries/economy, can't do the same.

It's all self inflicted wounds. Zoning, policies and a state afraid to really crack down on the local BS is at the root of the issues. Further, if the band aid of a social net is a reason for lax housing or growth pushes, that's bad for everyone. Only hurts the whole ecosystem if you catch my drift.
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  #102  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 7:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
^^^^

That's unfortunate for California. And look, I get it, the equity... but in the long run... not good for the future masses of newcomers or folks that want to make it and maybe don't have the luxury of inheriting intergenerational wealth. Hell, how about immigrants, poor ones.
I ain't gonna get a dam thing, but I don't live in the narrative part of CA.
(CA forumers can confirm)

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More housing is needed and it needs to be forced. Less regulation, aggressive zoning, mitigating community input and letting industry and housing flourish.
Regulations can force housing

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But that's if folks care about the middle and lower classes, like they like to tell themselves that they care but not really. If they continue to support California building policies and regulations and zoning, they really don't care about the poor or providing an environment for future immigrants to flourish (without great suffering).
I don't really support it, I have just adapted to what they want.

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I find it asinine that a place like Texas or Florida can pump out the housing, but a place like Cali, with all its wealth and powerhouse industries/economy, can't do the same.
CA could, but a thread is needed for that.
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It's all self inflicted wounds. Zoning, policies and a state afraid to really crack down on the local BS is at the root of the issues. Further, if the band aid of a social net is a reason for lax housing or growth pushes, that's bad for everyone. Only hurts the whole ecosystem if you catch my drift.
The whole local vs state thing is very testy, but there's a few other layers that make it difficult.
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  #103  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 12:20 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Just to be clear on Canada, this is situation here....

America in 2008? Amateurs. Canada looked at that and said, "Hold my maple syrup...."

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  #104  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 3:00 PM
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chris08876 chris08876 is offline
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Mass public housing is needed. Real housing and not just speculative investment units. Same thing with the U.S. in states or local regional spheres that suffer from inadequate supply-demand dynamics.
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  #105  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 3:06 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Originally Posted by TWAK View Post

My parent's place was 80k on a 12% interest rate....
It's kinda nuts how high interest rates were, and how fucking cheap housing was, back in the day.

My parents bought the house I grew up in, in Wilmette, one of Chicagoland's highly desirable northshore suburbs, for $27K at a 9% rate back in 1976!

$27K in 1976 would only be ~$150K in today's dollars.

$150K would only be the down payment on a low-end house in Wilmette these days.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 27, 2023 at 3:51 PM.
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  #106  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 4:39 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
It's kinda nuts how high interest rates were, and how fucking cheap housing was, back in the day.

My parents bought the house I grew up in, in Wilmette, one of Chicagoland's highly desirable northshore suburbs, for $27K at a 9% rate back in 1976!

$27K in 1976 would only be ~$150K in today's dollars.

$150K would only be the down payment on a low-end house in Wilmette these days.
Boomers gonna boom.

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, son.
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  #107  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TWAK View Post

My parent's place was 80k on a 12% interest rate....
REAGAN!
I think my parents paid around the same and my stepfather made pretty good money as an accountant for oil and gas in their highflying days which wasn't anywhere near 80k in 1985.
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  #108  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 6:42 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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"when selling a house to get top dollar we've had to remove any traces of Black, African art, literature, photos, even family photos. Otherwise the home appraiser will undercut the value by a shocking percentage, even in White neighborhoods.
First of all, an appraisal for purposes of a refinance is a completely different thing than a buyer's bank appraising the home (have any of you actually bought/sold any homes?). I am also skeptical of this story because when I refinanced my first home there was no physical appraisal.

Second, a staged home sells for a much higher price and much faster than a home that is not staged.

What does staging mean? It means erasing nearly all signs of individuality. This means no pets, no religion, no family photos. Furniture and artwork that the seller doesn't own are brought in.

HGTV, etc., is full of flipping shows, where low-class homes have their pasts erased.

It is well known that the seller's family shouldn't physically be there when potential buyers tour the home.


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One time I even had my White friend pretend to be my husband's spouse for an open house"
I'm calling BS. Refer to my previous comment. What sort of seller (except, perhaps a FSBO, which is a big reason why FSBO is a bad idea) is physically at the house during an open house?

I have walked through many properties as a potential buyer and I've never seen an owner on the premises.

One time I recall a pet rabbit in a cage, which didn't bother me (yes, we were all thinking that the rabbit was allowed to run loose but we didn't smell anything), but I've also never seen any pets*.

*edit - I recall walking into a rented apartment unit with a realtor and a cat raced out. I attempted to get the cat but he ran across the street and jumped a fence. I recall that the tenant had his place decorated with antique swords.

And for those of you who have actually bought a house, you know that the deal can fall through if your bank's appraiser does not agree that the home is worth as much as the agreed-to price.

As an example, I bought my first house from a relative. He bought it for $100,000 and agreed to sell it to me for $150,000, after having put roughly $50,000 in work into it (new roof, new kitchen, new concrete patio/steps, rewired, insulated, etc.). I applied for the mortgage and got it ($25k down + $125k loan) but then the bank appraised the house at $125k. He then agreed to sell me the house for $125,000 but then I had to pay him $25,000 over four years, which I did. The deal kind of sucked for both of us - him because he didn't get paid quickly for the improved value and me because I could have bought another house with the hard money I ended up paying him.
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  #109  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 8:20 PM
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jmecklenborg,
I don't care if you call BS. You think corporate ownership of massive amounts of housing supply across the country is a good thing.

You also own your own house and investment properties when many in North America have been priced right out of the market and dream of home ownership.

Now, in part due to housing supply decreasing from mass corporate ownership whether it be Zillow types or Wall Street-level financiers, housing prices are rising faster than otherwise would, and rents have gone through the roof leading to an entire generation of folks that can't ever afford a house unless they move to the absolute cheapest and usually least desirable parts of the country.

You clearly didn't even care to look at any links from publications across the country stating discriminatory home appraisal practices are occurring to educated, upper middle class Black people. Even happened to Black Professors at a prestigious and well respected institution such as Johns Hopkins university, no less!

It's not happening because I've never experienced it as a White male is quite the argument.

My friend and her husband have lived in numerous States across the country, currently in the Bay area of California. And that's about as much detail as I'll get into about their personal lives.

But hey, I don't care if you don't believe me because rampant housing discrimination happens to Black people of all education and income levels across the United States, where you seem to be one of the many Americans that doesn't like to believe it exists.

(You're also the dude that claimed in another thread that LA would no longer be the center of TV and film production and we see no evidence of your past claims )

I've personally been at my parents house (my childhood home I grew up in) during an open house when they were selling their home (2007) in Ontario, Canada and were out of town looking at housing in the area they moved to in the US.

Why? Because they asked me to be there, which I'm sure that's what my friend asked her White friend to do.

Last edited by Wigs; Jan 27, 2023 at 8:39 PM.
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  #110  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 8:26 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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When we were house-hunting, I'd say I met about 1/3 of the home sellers or so, out of thirty-ish homes. Maybe half the open houses had the home sellers present. And some home visits had home sellers present. Inspection also had home sellers present, or at least some familial representative. Maybe there are regional differences.

I don't think I ever viewed an apartment where I couldn't guess the background of the occupants, or at least the background they were attempting to communicate. Don't even need family photos. You could get the wok hei smell with East Asian sellers, you could see a mezzuzah or shabat candlesticks with Jewish sellers, etc. South Asian sellers almost always have a unique color scheme, with lots of reds. Yeah, I'm stereotyping.
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  #111  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 9:37 PM
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Portland real estate activity is kind of flat but our rental vacancy rate is the lowest in the country. Thats weird. I don't know who all these extra renters are. There is tons of apartment construction and the city lost population. Are people downsizing?
families left for the suburbs and were replaced by singles/DINKs. this is basically why CA needs housing despite losing hundreds of thousands of people annually domestically (and the international immigration/natural increase isn't enough to make up the difference like it used to be)

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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
It's kinda nuts how high interest rates were, and how fucking cheap housing was, back in the day.

My parents bought the house I grew up in, in Wilmette, one of Chicagoland's highly desirable northshore suburbs, for $27K at a 9% rate back in 1976!

$27K in 1976 would only be ~$150K in today's dollars.

$150K would only be the down payment on a low-end house in Wilmette these days.
Wow that's crazy. I feel bad for kids growing up today if their parents don't own property.
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  #112  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2023, 10:40 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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The owner being present during a showing or open house is completely foreign to me and I've looked at well over 100 properties in the past 5 years. I guess different customs in different markets? That is definitely not how it works in Chicago.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 12:08 AM
mhays mhays is offline
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Here's a little fodder: A 30-year mortgage at 10% will cost twice as much per month as the same mortgage at 2.0%. At 17% it'll cost three times as much (during a chunk of the early 80s).

That's a decent chunk of the high prices that were common before the recent rate increases, and a big reason for the low prices long ago. Even though most people got the high twos, not two flat.
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  #114  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 4:51 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Here's a little fodder: A 30-year mortgage at 10% will cost twice as much per month as the same mortgage at 2.0%. At 17% it'll cost three times as much (during a chunk of the early 80s).

That's a decent chunk of the high prices that were common before the recent rate increases, and a big reason for the low prices long ago. Even though most people got the high twos, not two flat.
Exactly. People were likely paying similar amounts of their income for homes that were worth less in the 1980s.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 6:10 PM
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Exactly. People were likely paying similar amounts of their income for homes that were worth less in the 1980s.
In my parents case, they bought a $27,000 house in 1976 with 20% down and a 9.0% interest rate on a 30 year, that made for a monthly mortgage payment of $174/month. That translates to $853/month in today's dollars

These days, you ain't coming close to buying a house in Wilmette with a $853/month payment on a 20% down 30 year loan, even at the stupid low rates a couple years ago. You couldn't even buy a vacant plot of land there for that cost.
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  #116  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
In my parents case, they bought a $27,000 house in 1976 with 20% down and a 9.0% interest rate on a 30 year, that made for a monthly mortgage payment of $174/month. That translates to $853/month in today's dollars

These days, you ain't coming close to buying a house in Wilmette with a $853/month payment on a 20% down 30 year loan, even at the stupid low rates a couple years ago. You couldn't even buy a vacant plot of land there for that cost.
To rent a 1 bedroom in the most populated parts of Canada (southern Ontario) is like $1600-2000CAD/month or $1200-$1500 USD!
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  #117  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 7:44 PM
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chris08876 chris08876 is offline
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What's a good salary or income range per year in CAD to say live "comfortably" in the Toronto region?

How about Vancouver?

What's a good range for say home ownership there (single family) and yet be able to live comfortable?

Was looking at Vancouver prices and its asinine, even after the CAD to USD conversion? Its like a whole city of C-Suits and Doctors to be able to afford anything there. I must be missing something.
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  #118  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
In my parents case, they bought a $27,000 house in 1976 with 20% down and a 9.0% interest rate on a 30 year, that made for a monthly mortgage payment of $174/month. That translates to $853/month in today's dollars

These days, you ain't coming close to buying a house in Wilmette with a $853/month payment on a 20% down 30 year loan, even at the stupid low rates a couple years ago. You couldn't even buy a vacant plot of land there for that cost.
Hold onto your butts!
Mine is $970 or so, but it comes out to $1400 with insurance and property taxes (I think it's better to pay those with the mortgage). How is this possible in California?
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  #119  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 9:21 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
In my parents case, they bought a $27,000 house in 1976 with 20% down and a 9.0% interest rate on a 30 year, that made for a monthly mortgage payment of $174/month. That translates to $853/month in today's dollars

These days, you ain't coming close to buying a house in Wilmette with a $853/month payment on a 20% down 30 year loan, even at the stupid low rates a couple years ago. You couldn't even buy a vacant plot of land there for that cost.
The median house price in America in 1976 was $44,200 and the median household income was roughly $15,000. That would make the mortgage payment on a 9% fixed 30 year about $356/month or 29% of the pre-tax income of a family at the median. The median house price in 2022 was $467,700 at the end of 2022 and the median income was $90,000. That would make the mortgage payment on a 2% fixed 30 year about $1,729, or about 23% of the income of the median family. At 5% it would be about $2,511/month or 33% of the median income.
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  #120  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2023, 11:59 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Exactly. People were likely paying similar amounts of their income for homes that were worth less in the 1980s.
Can people just stop saying this sh*t? This is not difficult to actually prove.

By every conceivable measure, real incomes have decreased and the prices of real estate have skyrocketed relative to incomes over the past couple of generations.

My parents bought their house for $36K in 1975. It was so affordable to them they paid it off in 5 years.

My grandparents bought their last house a few years prior to that for about $25k. When my grandfather died, I found his W2s and at the time they bought their house he was making $17K per year. My grandmother was a nurse and also working, so I assume the house cost about a year of income for them.

When my grandmother died her estate (including the house) was worth about a million dollars. My grandfather had an 8th grade education. My grandmother became a registered nurse through a technical program because college wasn't yet required.

Their quality of life was obscenely better than it is for most middle class families today. They put my father through college (Villanova) for $500 a year. Obviously they paid out of pocket and there were no such things as student loans. They had reams of disposable income basically their entire lives.
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