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  #7021  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
a little?
But can you honestly say that it's unwarranted?

It felt like downtown was starting to make serious inroads but the last few years have pulled the rug right out from under it.

I've been to some other Western Canadian downtowns over the past couple of years and I've noticed differences due to the pandemic and other issues, but none of them have been whacked as hard as Winnipeg. Downtown retail basically doesn't exist anymore. At one point I thought it was a short-term temporary downturn, but I am wondering if that is the case.

Obviously I want the situation to improve, but the current state of affairs is dire.
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  #7022  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 9:13 PM
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I'm just teasing.
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  #7023  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 9:22 PM
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The loss creates opertunity thoughif people choose to uptake
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  #7024  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 9:40 PM
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The same can be said for all the beer halls on Main Street. Most of them were closed down - the problem has not only move, it has grown. Go figure. Unfortunate this is where the conversation has gone on a construction thread. My apologies - my concern is that if we want to see great projects downtown, this must be solved.
BTW...just listening to Robert Falcon Ouellette on the radio. He sounds like he has his eyes wide open. Whoever talks about these problems honestly, and is committed to address them, gets my vote for Mayor and council.
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  #7025  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
I'm not sure you realize this, but CV's mandate is to be a development agency, not to issue or take away commercial licenses from private businesses. If 98% of the business owners want the Woodbine shut down they should lobby the Provincial government....or maybe the BIZ can do that for them.

On a personal level, suggesting that we take away the liquor license for one bar but not the many others in the area because one serves poor people and the others don't is not an idea I support. We didn't get rid of poverty or substance abuse when we bought the St. Regis. We just moved it. Closing the vendor wil not solve the poverty or alcohol issues in the area.
I would suggest CV was instrumental in buying the Bell Hotel and its liquor license . It was a participant in a successful reuse of the building and its programming. I believe they participated in a similar project on Selkirk Avenue? The St Regis did not work out for CV but would have if the condition of its liquor licence was enforced or just the beverage room was closed down. There was nothing wrong with upgrading the building and continue utilizing it as accommodation for northern Manitobans in the City for medical reasons. (I know that was not on your watch but the demolition of a heritage building was.)

I would say a solution at the Woodbine is definitely within CV’s mandate.

As the board of directors and the Chair have wished to travel in another direction on this, I will say again, perhaps it’s time to move on and give another group of concerned community minded Winnipeger’s a chance at bettering the downtown in a different way. Thank you for your effort I do know it was heartfelt. As I said, six plus years is really long enough for a volunteer board to make an impact.

The building owners and I hope some of the businesses will still be around long after the self congratulatory speeches are over. Someone has to be left to pay the taxes, salaries and pensions.

This is not an issue of serving poor people but rather over serving. Again these issues are not encountered to the same degree at other establishments in the area. It’s about illegal and irresponsible bartending and a vendor that needs to be shut down.

Is there a CV program to replace smashed windows and broken locks? We are sitting at almost 20k for 2021 / 2022. And no it’s not covered by insurance.
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  #7026  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 11:29 PM
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^I don't think the alcohol is the primary factor here. It may contribute no doubt but really this all started when meth became commonplace. Now it's meth and opioids. People lose their minds on this shit, and, of course, sometimes die. People were living in Windows Park last summer as a result of this behaviour! It's ridiculous.

When the city stopped enforcing the act against begging at stoplights it just seemed to give license to so many people to do whatever the hell they wanted. The result, well, as we all know, is not pretty.

It started with the squeegee guys, remember? Don't see them at all now.
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  #7027  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
It felt like downtown was starting to make serious inroads but the last few years have pulled the rug right out from under it.

I've been to some other Western Canadian downtowns over the past couple of years and I've noticed differences due to the pandemic and other issues, but none of them have been whacked as hard as Winnipeg. Downtown retail basically doesn't exist anymore. At one point I thought it was a short-term temporary downturn, but I am wondering if that is the case.
I feel as though, for a whole bunch of complex reasons such as unaffordability in major cities, remote work, geographical isolation, cultural perceptions, etc. (reasons beyond Winnipeg being full of unenlightened pickup truck driving bumpkins who are obsessed with suburbia - see also the Stats Can thread this past week), Winnipeg wasn't able to ride the wave of urbanism that seems to have gone across the country over the last 6-7 years. I'm not sure which Western Canadian downtowns you're referring to, but it strikes me that 6-7 years ago Winnipeg offered a competitive urban experience to Halifax, Hamilton, Kitchener, Waterloo, London, and Edmonton but over the last 6-7 years, those cities have taken significant steps forward in their urban form while Winnipeg has basically puttered along building the odd inner city residential building every other year. Even though we had consistent downtown growth from 2016-2021 (not sure if that'll hold), we haven't really kept pace. I'm not sure its fair to say the downtown was better 6-7 years ago as there was fewer people living downtown - I know residents aren't everything, but I always consider it a good indication of downtown health. Further, I typically believe that every subsequent downtown resident is a little easier to attract than the previous one.

I'm very concerned right now and I'm worried about people moving downtown and quickly being fed-up with the lack of amenities, lack of people, and general atmosphere of the place (feeling unsafe and downtown not being clean). If people don't occupy the new buildings being built, people start moving out of existing buildings, and the population starts shrinking then I'll really be concerned and perhaps say we're too far gone. Hopefully it never comes to that and I think its still too early to tell if that's the direction we're heading in. If we can keep pushing our residential population higher, and the downtown office population comes back over the coming years (even if it never exceeds pre-covid levels and businesses maintain a WFH staff, but the current space is occupied as companies expand/grow) then I'm hopeful we'll be okay.
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  #7028  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
I would suggest CV was instrumental in buying the Bell Hotel and its liquor license . It was a participant in a successful reuse of the building and its programming. I believe they participated in a similar project on Selkirk Avenue? The St Regis did not work out for CV but would have if the condition of its liquor licence was enforced or just the beverage room was closed down. There was nothing wrong with upgrading the building and continue utilizing it as accommodation for northern Manitobans in the City for medical reasons. (I know that was not on your watch but the demolition of a heritage building was.)

I would say a solution at the Woodbine is definitely within CV’s mandate.

As the board of directors and the Chair have wished to travel in another direction on this, I will say again, perhaps it’s time to move on and give another group of concerned community minded Winnipeger’s a chance at bettering the downtown in a different way. Thank you for your effort I do know it was heartfelt. As I said, six plus years is really long enough for a volunteer board to make an impact.

The building owners and I hope some of the businesses will still be around long after the self congratulatory speeches are over. Someone has to be left to pay the taxes, salaries and pensions.

This is not an issue of serving poor people but rather over serving. Again these issues are not encountered to the same degree at other establishments in the area. It’s about illegal and irresponsible bartending and a vendor that needs to be shut down.

Is there a CV program to replace smashed windows and broken locks? We are sitting at almost 20k for 2021 / 2022. And no it’s not covered by insurance.
While I agree about The Woodbine, another huge problem is that downtown has a few blocks away the new Main St Project and Siloam Mission with very visible scores of people that while in need of help, we place these establishments on major streets.
Another huge issue...nobody discusses is...the once elegant Marlborough Hotel.It needs attention as well as Woodbine.

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/winnipeg...ting-1.5885174

This is the heart of downtown & what is happening is the root cause of persons feeling safe on Portage Avenue evening & later at night..
There needs to be an intervention there a.s.a.p.
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  #7029  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 1:48 AM
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The medical arts conversation The Arts Residence has announced they are 100% leased.
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WINNIPEG | Projects and Development

In The Future Every Building Will Be World-Famous For Fifteen Minutes.
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  #7030  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 2:08 AM
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Great news! And Smith Street is 50 of 250 and it’s not even done yet.
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  #7031  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 2:49 AM
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Oof these posts about dealing with poverty are missing the point.

Anyways.

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  #7032  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 12:56 PM
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If I seem a little down on the city lately, this is why... it felt like Winnipeg made some painstakingly slow progress over two decades from about 1997-2017, but so much of it has come undone over the last 5. And I am not that optimistic that we will regain that lost ground anytime soon... the current trendline for downtown Winnipeg is not great. So many shops and restaurants have closed down over the past couple years, and I'm not sure anyone will be in a rush to open new ones up in those spaces. It feels like any hope of seeing a truly improved and rejuvenated downtown sometime before I retire in the next 15 or 20 years is fading fast, and that is kind of a depressing thought. I never would have imagined that 2015-2017 or so was basically the high water mark for downtown Winnipeg in my adult life.

The situation is pretty dire but there has been surprisingly little public acknowledgment of that fact in the media, among civic leaders, etc., and even fewer ideas and solutions for dealing with it.
This happens every time the Conservatives take office. They gut social services, poverty and its associated problems skyrocket, and we see the result in downtown Winnipeg. Then the NDP gets elected and cleans things up. Then suburban Winnipeg becomes complacent and greedy, wants tax cuts, accuses the NDP of being wasteful, and the Tories are re-elected.

This is what needs to be publically acknowledged in the media and among civic leaders
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  #7033  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 1:35 PM
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^Hit the nail on the head here, but I think the problem from the NDP really started to fester when Doer was replaced. If Kinew proves to be a capable leader then that will make me much more optimistic for the future. There’s a lot of things you can say about Kinew but he definitely appears to be competent and understands the issues Winnipeg, especially the Downtown and North End face.
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  #7034  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 1:45 PM
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That's great news about Medical Arts and the Smith Street Lofts - absolutely reasons to be hopeful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway View Post
This happens every time the Conservatives take office. They gut social services, poverty and its associated problems skyrocket, and we see the result in downtown Winnipeg. Then the NDP gets elected and cleans things up. Then suburban Winnipeg becomes complacent and greedy, wants tax cuts, accuses the NDP of being wasteful, and the Tories are re-elected.
This is a great point, I didn't even realize when I made my last post that Pallister took charge in 2016.
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  #7035  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 1:52 PM
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The ALIGN building on Pembina looks nice. It will compliment the ARC very nicely, the two will make a great pair. ARC stands out on the skyline around there.

I am a little surprised by the unceasing demand for new residential along Pembina. I assume it isn't all for students, but I'd imagine a good chunk of it must be. I wonder if the U of M isn't missing the boat by not building more of its own residences? They really just added that one big one a decade or so ago and not much else since, if anything. Wouldn't they stand to profit from more housing? In addition to improving the campus and making it more attractive in general to potential students.
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  #7036  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 1:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway View Post
This happens every time the Conservatives take office. They gut social services, poverty and its associated problems skyrocket, and we see the result in downtown Winnipeg. Then the NDP gets elected and cleans things up. Then suburban Winnipeg becomes complacent and greedy, wants tax cuts, accuses the NDP of being wasteful, and the Tories are re-elected.

This is what needs to be publically acknowledged in the media and among civic leaders
This isn't really a fair comment, the social issues you speak of are not unique to Winnipeg but are we documented in every city across Canada, the US and likely beyond. To think that this is the failing of one political party in a small province seems a little misguided.
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  #7037  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 3:23 PM
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The ALIGN building on Pembina looks nice. It will compliment the ARC very nicely, the two will make a great pair. ARC stands out on the skyline around there.

I am a little surprised by the unceasing demand for new residential along Pembina. I assume it isn't all for students, but I'd imagine a good chunk of it must be. I wonder if the U of M isn't missing the boat by not building more of its own residences? They really just added that one big one a decade or so ago and not much else since, if anything. Wouldn't they stand to profit from more housing? In addition to improving the campus and making it more attractive in general to potential students.
Well there’s the 10,000 unit golf course redevelopment that I’m sure they’re occupied with. Although I would really love to see them add housing across the street from the Arc. U of M also owns the massive greenfield on the southeast side of Waverley/Bison, and they have the research fields across the river from all those multi-family buildings on St Mary’s.

Of course some of that space should still be kept for agricultural research, but they really have a lot to room to work with in terms of adding housing to the area.
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  #7038  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 3:30 PM
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Well there’s the 10,000 unit golf course redevelopment that I’m sure they’re occupied with. Although I would really love to see them add housing across the street from the Arc. U of M also owns the massive greenfield on the southeast side of Waverley/Bison, and they have the research fields across the river from all those multi-family buildings on St Mary’s.

Of course some of that space should still be kept for agricultural research, but they really have a lot to room to work with in terms of adding housing to the area.
I'm not talking so much of building entirely new neighbourhoods as I am of putting residential buildings right on campus, kind of like with Pembina Hall. I think it would be great for campus to have a bit more of a human presence.

I'm not sure what the numbers are like, but I spent some time going to school at the U of Alberta in Edmonton and the campus always felt much livelier and more vibrant with a larger array of shops and businesses, and I'm sure that had a lot to do with the relatively large number of residence units on campus.
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  #7039  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 3:31 PM
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Oof these posts about dealing with poverty are missing the point.
It's wild. I used to come here because it seemed like a place for intelligent urbanists to share insights and have actual intelligent debate. But this issue comes up every week and it's always the same outdated boomer mentality of "let's just move the poors somewhere else where we don't have to look at them", moving the problems around instead of actually addressing the underlying issues. Total shame what this forum has become.
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  #7040  
Old Posted May 4, 2022, 4:45 PM
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It's wild. I used to come here because it seemed like a place for intelligent urbanists to share insights and have actual intelligent debate. But this issue comes up every week and it's always the same outdated boomer mentality of "let's just move the poors somewhere else where we don't have to look at them", moving the problems around instead of actually addressing the underlying issues. Total shame what this forum has become.
Agree.

Within the vulnerable sector, there is this idea of "system taps" which are the inputs into homelessness. They include things like eviction, release from incarceration, aging out of CFS, family breakdown, addictions, rural/urban migration, etc.

There is starting to be a realization that "up stream" interventions which address these system taps can start to reduce the number of people falling into homelessness.

If people want the problem "gone" as it were, the only logical lens to take is an upstream prevention approach. Once people are homeless, they require tons of resources to house and provide medical treatment for.

Addressing these system taps takes money and political will. Often times people don't think others should get the help, like, they're just being lazy or dysfunctional, like it's making things too easy or something. But if folks here really want downtown "cleaned up," perhaps they can ask themselves if they believe in the idea that we should be helping people before they fall into homelessness and addictions.
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