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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2022, 3:05 AM
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MIAMI | Metromover Extension to Miami Beach

Announced today. This will replace previous plans for a monorail that would have linked to Miami Beach as a separate mode of transit (requiring 3 separate modes of transit to get to the Beach). This would eliminate the Monorail and just extend the existing Metromover system to South Beach.

Construction set to begin in 2025.

Press Release
https://www.miamidade.gov/global/rel...67391297572218

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Miami Dade announces One-Seat Solution for Beach Corridor/Baylink

Seamless extension of Metromover provides the most efficient and cost-effective option to residents

Today, Miami-Dade County announced plans to pursue a one-seat ride solution for the Miami Beach transit corridor or Baylink – an alternative to the previous monorail plan. The community-preferred, one-seat option – an expansion of Metromover to connect Miami to Miami Beach – will make Miami-Dade transit more efficient and accessible while saving taxpayers millions of dollars.
The one-seat solution remains the preferred option by residents and advocates, offering greater familiarity and convenience for riders and fully integrating with the existing County transit system.

“My administration is committed to providing our residents with innovative transit solutions that better connect residents to jobs and opportunity, while delivering maximum value to taxpayers,” said Mayor Daniella Levine Cava. “I have always supported a one-seat ride for Baylink, and I’m proud that we are now moving forward with a seamless extension of the Metromover to provide the best experience to residents and visitors at a significantly lower cost.”

In October 2020, the Miami-Dade Board of County Commissioners approved an interim agreement with MBM Partners, LLC (MBM) granting the right to negotiate a comprehensive 30-year project agreement to develop and maintain a monorail system connecting Miami to Miami Beach. Due to significant increases in proposed costs over the course of the negotiating period, the interim phase ended without an agreement, allowing the County to pursue a more cost-effective, convenient, one-seat alternative.

“When monorail was first proposed, the previous administration presented it as a solution that could save hundreds of millions of dollars over Metromover. In the recent negotiations, however, the price ballooned to $1.3 billion,” said District 5 Commissioner Eileen Higgins. “We now believe we can get what the residents want – a one-seat ride between Downtown and the Beach by extending our existing Metromover – at a lower cost. That’s why we’ve decided expanding the Metromover is the best option.”

An analysis conducted by the Department of Transportation and Public Works (DTPW) indicated that an extension of the County’s existing Metromover system to Miami Beach would provide the greatest rider experience and create the highest overall value. Extending the Metromover system offers users a one-seat ride from any Metromover station to Miami Beach and back, connecting Baylink to Metrorail and eliminating the need for riders to transfer while maintaining comparable travel times.
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2022, 3:06 AM
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maybe merge with this thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...hlight=baylink

This metromover extension will replace the Baylink plans from the above thread.
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2022, 1:50 PM
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Good, this make way more sense than a different mode of transportation than what we have existing.
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Old Posted Nov 3, 2022, 2:38 PM
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I am looking forward for that! Can’t wait to get on it! I am very surprised! No need to worry about paying parking meters at the beach anymore.
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2022, 8:17 PM
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Why not just extend a line of Metrorail to Miami Beach and have a streetcar/light rail line servicing the barrier islands from South Beach to the North? Metromover might be cheaper, but does it have the capacity to bring tons of people between Downtown and South Beach across the intercoastal?
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Old Posted Nov 3, 2022, 8:48 PM
Mr13thstreetwiz Mr13thstreetwiz is offline
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I thought Miami looks similar to Vancouver with the multi-skylines and both near water and maybe they could make Metromover like Skytrain and Metrorail like the Canada Line. Miami with over 2x Vancouver's population should have a transit system that can be nearly as good.
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Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Why not just extend a line of Metrorail to Miami Beach and have a streetcar/light rail line servicing the barrier islands from South Beach to the North? Metromover might be cheaper, but does it have the capacity to bring tons of people between Downtown and South Beach across the intercoastal?
A Metrorail extension to Miami Beach would have been the best option. However at the cost of $100 Million per mile and a bridge approaching South Beach the costs would quickly escalate far above $1 Billion for a 5 Mile extension.
As for capacity the current Metrobus system transports about 14,000 passengers a day between South Beach & downtown Miami.
Metromover already carries about 18,000 daily passengers in it's 4.4 Mile system so this shouldn't be too difficult capacity wise.

I want to applaud this announcement but we approved this Extension to the Beach in November 2002 when we approved the half cent Sales Tax for Transit. We've been waiting 20 YEARS for something that should have been done a long time ago and I honestly thought I would probably be dead before this would ever happen.
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Old Posted Nov 11, 2022, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
I want to applaud this announcement but we approved this Extension to the Beach in November 2002 when we approved the half cent Sales Tax for Transit. We've been waiting 20 YEARS for something that should have been done a long time ago and I honestly thought I would probably be dead before this would ever happen.
Time flies! I remember that 2002 sales tax approval. I'll believe this one when I see them actually get construction underway.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2022, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakelander View Post
Time flies! I remember that 2002 sales tax approval. I'll believe this one when I see them actually get construction underway.
I agree with you. They will start construction in between 2024 or 2025. That's for sure! Schedule to be completed in 2028 or 2029.

Still no news about Metrorail extension to Miami-Dade/Broward County line.
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Old Posted Nov 16, 2022, 6:41 PM
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Miami-Dade County votes to accelerate Metrorail's northern extension to Hard Rock Stadium:
https://www.thenextmiami.com/county-...ction-by-2024/
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2022, 11:31 PM
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So they are going to build this 8 Mile extension of MetroRail all the way to the Broward County line with only one station terminating across from the Hard Rock stadium? I see that they are going to build this without any Federal monies but I wonder if the stations that were originally planned will ever get built if they don't secure funds after this extension is built.
Hopefully many South Broward commuters will use this line to get to Miami.
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 1:07 AM
wanderer34 wanderer34 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Why not just extend a line of Metrorail to Miami Beach and have a streetcar/light rail line servicing the barrier islands from South Beach to the North? Metromover might be cheaper, but does it have the capacity to bring tons of people between Downtown and South Beach across the intercoastal?
The biggest pet peeve about this project is always the capacity as well as the length of the project (5-6 miles from DT Miami to South Beach). If capacity is to be greatly considered, the Metrorail would've been much better, and if the residents didn't want the Metrorail passing through Miami Beach, it would've made much more sense to construct a light rail system from Gov't Center to South Beach or the previously proposed monorail. The Metromover extension still doesn't make any sense to me due to it's capacity compared to the the prior modes of transport.

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Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
A Metrorail extension to Miami Beach would have been the best option. However at the cost of $100 Million per mile and a bridge approaching South Beach the costs would quickly escalate far above $1 Billion for a 5 Mile extension.
As for capacity the current Metrobus system transports about 14,000 passengers a day between South Beach & downtown Miami.
Metromover already carries about 18,000 daily passengers in it's 4.4 Mile system so this shouldn't be too difficult capacity wise.
I'm not sure where the ROW is going to be located, but it would've been much cheaper to place the elevated ROW along Dodge Island (Port of Miami) and place a station at the Port of Miami, and allow two bridges, one between DT Miami and Dodge Island, and another higher one connecting Dodge Island and South Pointe at South Beach. The higher one would allow cruise ships to pass underneath the bridge.

Once again, I'm not sure where exactly the ROW has been proposed, but it would've been better to have used Dodge Island to place the ROW as opposed to constructing a 5-mile bridge to South Bridge, which would've been a much better plan IMO. I'm looking at the long term viability as opposed to just trying to supply Miami Beach with whatever mode of transport is available and I'm hoping Miami-Dade Transit can reconsider either heavy rail via Dodge Island or light rail or the monorail because of higher capacity plus the fact tha Miami Beach is a city of about 90K, which makes a lot of sense to consider those modes of transit over the Metromover.

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Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
I want to applaud this announcement but we approved this Extension to the Beach in November 2002 when we approved the half cent Sales Tax for Transit. We've been waiting 20 YEARS for something that should have been done a long time ago and I honestly thought I would probably be dead before this would ever happen.
I still wish something with higher capacity would come. The Metromover just isn't higher capacity. I'd rather see the Metromover being extended either into Wynwood or the Miami Health Center than Miami Beach, which is too far for such a system. Once again, I'm hoping MDC considers heavy rail, light rail, or a monorail just for higher capacity alone not not just to save a few bucks. That's what the state and federal government is for, and isn't President Biden supposed to be a transit-friendly president? Why not lobby for more money just to build either heavy rail, light rail, or a monorail to Miami Beach?
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 4:28 AM
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That would need to be some bridge to get from Dodge Island to South Beach. There are already 235 foot tall cruise ships passing through government cut and in the future I am sure they will be even taller.
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Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 6:01 PM
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That would need to be some bridge to get from Dodge Island to South Beach. There are already 235 foot tall cruise ships passing through government cut and in the future I am sure they will be even taller.
About the max grade you can get with steel-wheel on steel-rail metro technology is 4%. If you need to clear 238' cruise ships then you probably need 275' to the bridge deck. To put that in context, it would be taller than the Bentley Bay towers at the foot of the causeway. That also means the sloped bridge approaches at 4% grade have to be 6900' long on either side of the main span, or 1.3 miles. On the Dodge Island side, that's no big deal... but imagine having 1.3 miles of steep ascent towering over South Beach. It would simply never happen.

You can go steeper with rubber tires like Montreal or Paris, but that doesn't change the height of the bridge, it would be more roller-coaster like. And it would not be compatible with the existing Metrorail system, so you'd need to have a transfer at Government Center.

Unless Miami wants to pay a billion dollars to add an underwater tunnel or move the cruise terminal, they can't send rail via Dodge Island - it has to go via the causeway. If you want to serve the cruise terminals, you can put a station on Watson Island (which has other tourist attractions) and run a shuttle bus system through the PortMiami tunnel. Or an overhead cableway system!
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Old Posted Nov 19, 2022, 6:14 PM
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So they are going to build this 8 Mile extension of MetroRail all the way to the Broward County line with only one station terminating across from the Hard Rock stadium? I see that they are going to build this without any Federal monies but I wonder if the stations that were originally planned will ever get built if they don't secure funds after this extension is built.
Hopefully many South Broward commuters will use this line to get to Miami.
This all seems very unrealistic, no? IIRC Miami-Dade has a bunch of sales tax money sitting in an account for rail service. But it does say they are seeking Federal money, and they can't expect to get Federal money quickly enough to start construction in 2024. The North Corridor isn't even on FTA's project list.

As for not building stations, that seems very foolish. It's a lot harder and more expensive to build a station next to an active (electrified) rail line, much easier and cheaper to build it all up front. CTA here in Chicago is paying $80M for a new elevated station at Damen, with about the same platform length. So 7 new stations would be ~$550M, give or take. More if they want to move the Opa-Locka Tri-Rail stop to allow a transfer there.
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  #16  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 3:16 AM
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That would need to be some bridge to get from Dodge Island to South Beach. There are already 235 foot tall cruise ships passing through government cut and in the future I am sure they will be even taller.
In order to cross Dodge Island, if corse you need a bridge. More than likely, you’ll need bascule bridges or swing bridges (especially between Dodge Island and Miami Beach), or a combination of the two, but using Dodge Island or even placing an elevated ROW along MacArthur Causeway as an alternative route is better than placing a 5-mile bridge along the water plus it’s more practical since there’s already some land to place the ROW anyways!

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This all seems very unrealistic, no? IIRC Miami-Dade has a bunch of sales tax money sitting in an account for rail service. But it does say they are seeking Federal money, and they can't expect to get Federal money quickly enough to start construction in 2024. The North Corridor isn't even on FTA's project list.

As for not building stations, that seems very foolish. It's a lot harder and more expensive to build a station next to an active (electrified) rail line, much easier and cheaper to build it all up front. CTA here in Chicago is paying $80M for a new elevated station at Damen, with about the same platform length. So 7 new stations would be ~$550M, give or take. More if they want to move the Opa-Locka Tri-Rail stop to allow a transfer there.
Right now, according to MDT, they’re going to expand all the way to Hard Rock Stadium first, then after the elevated ROW is completed, MDT is going to build each of the stations after the ROW and Hard Rock Stadium station is built out. It makes a lot of sense considering that the 2026 World Cup is going to be coming to North America and Miami is one of the host cities for the World Cup.

I’d prefer that MDT builds each station consecutively but due to the urgency of hosting the 2026 World Cup, as well as an alternative to going to and leaving events hosted by the Miami Dolphins, Miami Hurricanes, Miami Open, and the Miami Grand Prix, it makes a lot of sense why MDT would hasten the construction to Hard Rock and build up the infill stations after the ROW and Hard Rock station are completed.
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Old Posted Nov 20, 2022, 9:46 PM
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In order to cross Dodge Island, if corse you need a bridge. More than likely, you’ll need bascule bridges or swing bridges (especially between Dodge Island and Miami Beach), or a combination of the two, but using Dodge Island or even placing an elevated ROW along MacArthur Causeway as an alternative route is better than placing a 5-mile bridge along the water plus it’s more practical since there’s already some land to place the ROW anyways!
You can't really put an operable bridge on a metro system. Chicago has two, but the bridge openings are only a few times a year when sailboats move from winter boatyards to summer marinas, or the occasional oversized load. Commuter rail can have operable bridges, it's easier to fit a bridge opening into the schedule if the trains only run once per hour.

Quote:
Right now, according to MDT, they’re going to expand all the way to Hard Rock Stadium first, then after the elevated ROW is completed, MDT is going to build each of the stations after the ROW and Hard Rock Stadium station is built out. It makes a lot of sense considering that the 2026 World Cup is going to be coming to North America and Miami is one of the host cities for the World Cup.

I’d prefer that MDT builds each station consecutively but due to the urgency of hosting the 2026 World Cup, as well as an alternative to going to and leaving events hosted by the Miami Dolphins, Miami Hurricanes, Miami Open, and the Miami Grand Prix, it makes a lot of sense why MDT would hasten the construction to Hard Rock and build up the infill stations after the ROW and Hard Rock station are completed.
Wow... if this is the operating plan, that's quite interesting. Run trains for the World Cup only, then shut down the line again for 18-24 months while the rest of the stations are built. Still, even building the guideway is a huge project. It's not just the elevated structure, you also have to put in electrical traction power and signaling systems which are insanely complex. If they can build 8 miles of guideway before 2026 I'll be impressed... we've had a gantry in Chicago putting up a new rail structure and its gone exactly 1 mile in the past 12 months...
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 5:47 AM
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You can't really put an operable bridge on a metro system. Chicago has two, but the bridge openings are only a few times a year when sailboats move from winter boatyards to summer marinas, or the occasional oversized load. Commuter rail can have operable bridges, it's easier to fit a bridge opening into the schedule if the trains only run once per hour.
I figured with the bascule bridges in Chicago, there’s annual maintenance done on the just to keep the bridges in hood working order. It’s really best to plan ahead and if the powers that be at Miami Beach don’t want a heavy rail line in that city, there’s always light rail, which is the best alternative.

I don’t like the Metromover only because it’s low capacity, it’s a free ride for 5 miles, and I see this as a money pit if built since it makes no sense to build a low capacity, automated system for five miles and the annual maintenance being considered, will the Miami Dade taxpayers foot the entire bill?

Like I said, if MDT can’t build nor afford a heavy rail line in Miami Beach, the. MDT should consider light rail at least because I don’t like the nimbyism from Miami Beach residents when it comes to mass transit and everything else and considering that Miami Dade is now officially a Republican enclave, and the city of Miami Beach is a mostly Democrat city, one would think that the GOP are anti transit when it seems like with the North Metrorail expansion, the Tri Rail expansion, and the Brightline, it seems like FL Republicans are more pro-mass transit than FL Dems, even though Miami Dade has a mostly Democrat county council and the county mayor is a Democrat.


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Wow... if this is the operating plan, that's quite interesting. Run trains for the World Cup only, then shut down the line again for 18-24 months while the rest of the stations are built. Still, even building the guideway is a huge project. It's not just the elevated structure, you also have to put in electrical traction power and signaling systems which are insanely complex. If they can build 8 miles of guideway before 2026 I'll be impressed... we've had a gantry in Chicago putting up a new rail structure and its gone exactly 1 mile in the past 12 months...
NO!!!! The original plan was set up back about a decade ago to expand all the way to Hard Rock Stadium and County Line (https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...ng-disappears/). The recent news of reconsidering expanding all the way to Hard Rock and County Line is only perfect timing considering that the World Cup is scheduled to begin in North America in 2026, and since Miami is one of the host cities for the 2026 World Cup (2026 is also the country’s semiquincentennial BTW), it’s only fitting to expand the line at this time.

Only question is how much state and federal funding is available for the North Metrorail extension? Hopefully it’s enough funding just to expand and build the Hard Rock station and I’m pretty sure since Hard Rock has the highest priority over other stations, Hard Rock station will the first station built along the new extension. I’m also sure that MDT will build the infill stations once they complete Hard Rock Station as I don’t see MDT shutting down the line for 18-24 months (not what I said) just to build infill stations.

I used to live in Philadelphia and used the take the Blue Line to Center City and I used to see certain stations closed and certain stations opened. For example, 56th and 46th St would be closed while 60th and 52nd Sts would be opened. I can see that scenario playing out in that in addition to Hard Rock already being built, the County Line (Unity Terminal) is most likely to be the next built since it’s a terminal, and maybe Miami Dade College, and maybe Ali Baba Ave while the line still provides service.

What I was trying to say is that it’s still possible to operate a transit line when stations are either closed as in the case of the Blue Line in Philadelphia or the station has yet to be built, as in the case of Miami. Anything is possible and the only thing stopping the North extension is possibly state and federal funding.
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 4:26 PM
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What is the point of running a metro line with only one station? I get why you want it running for World Cup fans, but if there's not an event going on at Hard Rock then who will even use the train? Maybe they just do service for special events only (Dolphins games, etc).

It makes a lot more sense to me to shut the line down so you can build the infill stations faster and cheaper... It's obviously possible to keep running the trains thru active station construction zones, it's just more complicated.

I don't have a lot of faith in Miami-Dade ever since they proposed running Metrorail trains at-grade down the middle of 27th Ave to save money...
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Old Posted Nov 22, 2022, 6:10 PM
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What is the point of running a metro line with only one station? I get why you want it running for World Cup fans, but if there's not an event going on at Hard Rock then who will even use the train? Maybe they just do service for special events only (Dolphins games, etc).
According to MDT, the reason why MDT wants to construct only one station at this extension is to speed up the construction of the line. Extending it to Hard Rock makes a lot of sense since it does provide mass transit service to Hard Rock from DT Miami and the long term goal of the extension isn’t to just serve soccer fans for the 2026 World Cup (that’st short term), but to serve fans coming to and returning from Hard Rock, as well as serving the residents living in NW Miami Dade for the long term. The infill stations will come, you need to be patient! The infill stations aren’t going to be built in a week!

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It makes a lot more sense to me to shut the line down so you can build the infill stations faster and cheaper... It's obviously possible to keep running the trains thru active station construction zones, it's just more complicated.
Sounds right, but I’m assuming that once the extension get’s built, then Hard Rock will be used as a temporary terminal until County Line/Unity Terminal gets completed, followed by the infill stations. As long as the tracks are built and fully intact and you have a destination, service will more than likely remain intact, even though you’ll have slowdowns and delays due to construction.

It happens all the time in NYC, Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia and I’m pretty sure Miami is no different when it comes to service and construction. I’m also assuming the view that you have is that of an emerging city which has yet to experience a bigger, more expansive mass transit system than a major city that’s already used to having such a system for decades. All I can say about that is things take time and once again, be patient!

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I don't have a lot of faith in Miami-Dade ever since they proposed running Metrorail trains at-grade down the middle of 27th Ave to save money...
Show me the link to that, as I don’t recall hearing MDT proposing an at-grade application of the North extension of Metrorail. My faith is that somehow, MDC is able to use their power to at least make the North extension a reality and place the Metromover extension to Miami Beach on hold if MDC can’t upgrade the Metromover to either heavy rail, light rail, or the monorail (all high capacity modes of transit, BTW) and use the funds initially set for the Metromover expansion towards the Metrorail extension instead!
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