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  #10121  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2021, 6:47 PM
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Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
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Originally Posted by DenverInfill View Post
On the other hand, the Thompson Hotel... that's a good looking building!
This is true. Thompson Hotel is a rather handsome building. Let’s hope - now that Denver has apparently become a top-tier market - we can anticipate a new precedent. I really wish residential real estate would have remained affordable for a blue-collar schmuck like me. But it hasn’t. At this point “the city” has become a playground for well-off techies and the few remaining average folks like me will eventually have to find another place to live. But let’s hope that it at least means the precedent for architectural quality changes, and this city we love becomes more beautiful and fills in with fewer X Denver’s and more Thompson Hotel’s.

I will always love this city - even after I’m priced out. And I will always be offended by X Denver.
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  #10122  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2021, 7:08 PM
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Okay, I’m done ranting about X Denver now, lol
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  #10123  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2021, 5:04 PM
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The new AMLI 8th & Broadway project made the Biz Journal this morning. 16 stories and 380 units on the half block between 8th and 9th.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...-broadway.html
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  #10124  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 3:36 AM
gopokes21 gopokes21 is offline
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Sam is right that X Denver is offensively ugly. If you look at their other projects, it appears that ugly towers are their business model. I hope the permitting process is giving them as much or more grief than all the developers trying to do something nice.

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Can we please have a primary challenger to Polis? What a fucking clown.
Polis has a weird way of saying the worst thing possible while still holding his cards close to his chest, so I'm not sure what (if anything) to make of his latest spat with RTD.

We should probably help Boulder leave RTD ASAP so that they can stop blaming Denver for alllllllll of their many problems. (sarcasm, but for real, bye)
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  #10125  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gopokes21 View Post
Sam is right that X Denver is offensively ugly. If you look at their other projects, it appears that ugly towers are their business model. I hope the permitting process is giving them as much or more grief than all the developers trying to do something nice.



Polis has a weird way of saying the worst thing possible while still holding his cards close to his chest, so I'm not sure what (if anything) to make of his latest spat with RTD.

We should probably help Boulder leave RTD ASAP so that they can stop blaming Denver for alllllllll of their many problems. (sarcasm, but for real, bye)
Did I misread the fine print on this blog that you had to be anti-Boulder, conservative to contribute? Every time I check this blog which is more and more rare it's some anti-Boulder bullsh*t. Boulder deserves the same level of transit service as other areas of the metro-area, but I know most of you won't agree. Feel free to remove me from this blog. Sick of it.
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  #10126  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 3:54 PM
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Did I misread the fine print on this blog that you had to be anti-Boulder, conservative to contribute? Every time I check this blog which is more and more rare it's some anti-Boulder bullsh*t. Boulder deserves the same level of transit service as other areas of the metro-area, but I know most of you won't agree. Feel free to remove me from this blog. Sick of it.
Oh boy......

Que Bunt's head exploding in 3.....2......1...........

Boulder GETS the same level of transit service as other areas of the metro, if not better. Every. single. time I ask a Boulderite how often they would use the train if it were built tomorrow, I have always received a sudden 'deer in the headlights' look because it dawns on them they wouldn't use it. People who live in Boulder don't commute to Denver often (rarely), and for those who commute into Boulder, the train wouldn't serve the areas they need to go (college/downtown/etc). The FF is FAR FAR more convenient for most people commuting than the train ever would be. I suspect with the stops, the time to final destination wouldn't be much different than the FF, even with heavy traffic on 36. Plus, with the different routes, you can hit college, Pearl Street, Boulder Junction Depot, and even the office parks on the east side of town (FF6). Also.... the FF2 is express and runs EVERY 10 MINUTES....

Get over it.
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  #10127  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 4:17 PM
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Boulder has better transit service than any other place of comparable population in Colorado.

The problem with the train is it goes to the wrong places. It misses the actual places people use transit to reach: Downtown and CU.

Boulder does not need a every expensive train that doesn't serve useful stops and very few people to ride, just to have the status symbol of getting a train instead of a bus. That wouldn't be getting its fair share. That would be prioritizing Boulder's status over its actual transit service, which, um, no.

If Boulder wanted to change its zoning to allow 50,000 or so more people to live by 30th Street station, then there might be a case for the train being worth it. But Boulder would rather push that growth out to the plains.
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  #10128  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 5:40 PM
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But Boulder deserves things. And what someone deserves trumps any logical, facts based argument. I, for example, deserve a 100K raise. Why is it that every time I visit this "blog", nobody is in support of this? Please remove me from your mailing list.
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  #10129  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 6:30 PM
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As somebody who grew up in Boulder, wishes that community well, and as a major train enthusiast, AND a liberal, I just cannot get over the way that the city (and apparently Gov. Polis) has dug in its heals over this political issue and most Boulderites seem unwilling to have an actual, rational discussion of the merits of the project. A recent CPR article mentioned a $700 million price tag for just 800 estimated riders per day. I don't care where you come from or who you represent - this just doesn't pass any kind of smell test.

Members of this forum have been pointing out the flaws in the B Line since, I don't know, like 2004 when I first signed up. I have long imagined that the best (only?) way to save the project would be to someday integrate it in to something like a Front Range Passenger Rail project - and completely re-think the technology and maybe even the route.

Now here we are, and the fact that some aren't willing to even have that conversation - that Polis insists that the line be built EXACTLY as proposed nearly 20 years ago, complete with all its known flaws - honestly feels like political indignance nearly as egregious as opposing health science in the face of a global pandemic. Does Boulder actually want their long fantasy of a train to be a failure? Meanwhile, nearly every other partner (RTD, Amtrak, CDOT, DRCOG) finally seems willing to perhaps have a conversation and see if something else can be done instead. This is no longer about serving the Boulder public with service that would actually improve their lives. It feels like it has become a hot potato of political score-settling that grinds all further progress on transit in the region to a halt. This is extremely disappointing and it helps neither Boulder, Denver, nor Colorado.
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  #10130  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 9:02 PM
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I wonder if a handful of trains per day as part of a Front Range Amtrak line would satisfy Boulder. And I wonder if that would be practical given the track constraints. I don't really remember the details of the track constraints.

And intercity station is more prestigious when you think about it. It means you're your own city, not just the farthest-away suburb of the main city. If it's all about prestige anyway--and it is as far as Boulder's concerned--they should be happier with that.
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Last edited by Cirrus; Apr 13, 2021 at 10:41 PM.
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  #10131  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 9:08 PM
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I'm more interested in the Amtrak line. If Amtrak can do a Boulder Junction to Denver Union Station straight shot in 30-35 minutes, that could be appealing. But a B line that would take as long as the Flatiron Flyer and service less desirable stops makes little sense other than avoiding the optics of aborting a commitment that RTD made in 2004. Frankly, the full B line is likely not the only part of FasTracks that might never come to fruition. I thought RTD studied the L line extension and found that it was more or less not practicably possible.
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  #10132  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post
I'm more interested in the Amtrak line. If Amtrak can do a Boulder Junction to Denver Union Station straight shot in 30-35 minutes, that could be appealing. But a B line that would take as long as the Flatiron Flyer and service less desirable stops makes little sense other than avoiding the optics of aborting a commitment that RTD made in 2004. Frankly, the full B line is likely not the only part of FasTracks that might never come to fruition. I thought RTD studied the L line extension and found that it was more or less not practicably possible.
I think the issue that limited the L Line was due to the Downtown Loop being at capacity and needing to be expanded with the addition of a pocket track. Instead, they crammed the route in by sacrifcing timing on one D and one F train per hour which also had other operational benefits. As the capital project still hasn't been done the L Line is still limited to what it currently is. This lack of pocket track also limits the D, F, and H lines as well and has contributed to the drop in on-time performance. RTD has squeezed everything it has from the Downtown Loop without planning on how to improve this link in the future.

RTD: Sacrificing successful routes in need of expansion for suburban buses and Boulderite egos. Oh, and being woke enough to let the homeless take over the Union Station bus terminal.
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  #10133  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 4:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
I wonder if a handful of trains per day as part of a Front Range Amtrak line would satisfy Boulder.
Since you linked to it, why not listen to it; it's how I start my day.
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  #10134  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 5:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Launch 12 View Post
Did I misread the fine print on this blog that you had to be anti-Boulder, conservative to contribute? Every time I check this blog which is more and more rare it's some anti-Boulder bullsh*t. Boulder deserves the same level of transit service as other areas of the metro-area, but I know most of you won't agree. Feel free to remove me from this blog. Sick of it.
It's somewhat fair to point out that most of the bloggers here are very City of Denver myopic. Even close by Aurora as been the object of scorn since it's a place where people can affordably live.

Just curious?
Are you by chance familiar with Boulder County's Transportation Masterplan (there's a whole lot to it). Boulder/County has invested a lot of time and effort into this and it is very comprehensive and well done. There's been specific analysis with respect to BRT routes - that would actually serve people from where they are to where they want to go.

Here's a link that piggybacks on Cirrus' Amtrak strategy.

GOOD NEWS
Lost the link but the recently passed Stimulus Bill included a Big Chunk of money for transit agencies. This money is intended to support operational costs of transit agencies through 2022. The previous Stimulus passed in December was what covered transit costs for 2021.
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  #10135  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 2:19 PM
mr1138 mr1138 is offline
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I wonder if a handful of trains per day as part of a Front Range Amtrak line would satisfy Boulder. And I wonder if that would be practical given the track constraints. I don't really remember the details of the track constraints.
If I remember correctly from conversations on this forum (admittedly it has been YEARS now since this has been discussed), the track constraints on the B-line basically come down to the fact that the entire line is a single-tracked freight corridor. The plan was always to share this track with freight trains, complete with delays to let freight trains through. All of Denver's EMU lines have been constructed as a separate track parallel to the freight trains (I believe this is even a regulatory requirement, but I'm not 100% sure about that part).

Adding new tracks would turn this into a completely different project. It would need to involve whole new elevated structures in locations such as this very old embankment in Westminster, not to mention right-of-way acquisition along the whole line that was never planned for. I also seem to remember that the track also goes under some roadway bridges that do not have enough clearance to accommodate the EMU electric wires and that replacing these bridges wasn't ever a part of the plan.

Of course, this was all decided back in the early-2000s when the project was still estimated to be only around $117 million. Now that this has ballooned almost tenfold (and the existing infrastructure has aged almost 20 years), it seems it would be worth questioning ALL of these factors again.

I'm not entirely sure how these track constraints would affect Amtrak. I suppose technologically it would be possible to run a traditional Amtrak train (certainly nothing new like Acela) on this line with minimal modifications since Amtrak just runs on old-fashioned freight tracks almost everywhere it goes.
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  #10136  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 3:35 PM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is online now
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The difficulty for rail and RTD specifically seems that they will go to great lengths to develop their rail corridors in the most cost effective manner without committing to providing a product that actually makes the rail attractive to riders that might otherwise drive. If you plan a train to slowly drag along an old freight track with the potential need to delay a trip to allow for passing freight, don't be surprised if there's a complete vacuum of demand for that service.

The A line is a great corridor but unless the cost of driving and parking in commercial districts (CBD, DTC, etc...) substantially increases, the cost benefit of riding light rail or commuter rail does not make sense to much of the population. I love rail and I've used it extensively in Italy and China but we are so willing to settle for rail lines that are frankly obsolete compared to even modern African standards
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  #10137  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post
The A line is a great corridor but unless the cost of driving and parking in commercial districts (CBD, DTC, etc...) substantially increases, the cost benefit of riding light rail or commuter rail does not make sense to much of the population.
Agreed. The G line is actually pretty great too, despite some obvious cutbacks in places and ongoing signal-timing issues. A 21 min ride from Olde Town Arvada to Union Station is competitive with driving and parking at peak hour and the ride is nearly always smooth and on time. Unfortunately, for now, Olde Town is the only station along the line with anything really happening nearby.

And you're absolutely right - the number of people in the metro area who have an origin AND destination close enough to transit to make it work is pretty small. Same is true in Boulder - a train might be nice for all those new residents and workers near 30th and Pearl (and to give due credit, the area is infilling quite nicely), but this location is still a good 20 minutes away from most people and existing destinations in Boulder. In this way I actually feel worse for Louisville than Boulder - the train would actually serve their little downtown.

Now that my morning fog is wearing off, I also seem to recall that a LOT has changed between RTD and BNSF since 2004. I vaguely remember something about changes to the shared track arrangement due to liability issues, but I don't remember where it all landed in terms of keeping the single track. Needless to say, it's a mess.
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  #10138  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
the track constraints on the B-line basically come down to the fact that the entire line is a single-tracked freight corridor.
So that's completely unworkable for an every-15-minutes train, but might not be a deal-breaker for an every-two-hours one.
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  #10139  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 4:34 PM
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Apartment developer buys pharmaceutical plant site in Denver’ Baker neighborhood for $26M

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A drugmaker ending its operations in Denver has sold the site of its Baker facility to a developer planning apartments.

Minnesota-based Upsher-Smith Laboratories’ property at 301 S. Cherokee St. was purchased last week by an entity affiliated with Austin, Texas-based Cypress Real Estate Advisors, according to public records.
https://www.denverpost.com/2021/04/1...t-site-denver/
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  #10140  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
...I have long imagined that the best (only?) way to save the project would be to someday integrate it in to something like a Front Range Passenger Rail project - and completely re-think the technology and maybe even the route.

Now here we are, and the fact that some aren't willing to even have that conversation - that Polis insists that the line be built EXACTLY as proposed nearly 20 years ago, complete with all its known flaws - honestly feels like political indignance nearly as egregious as opposing health science in the face of a global pandemic....
There's another way to get a train to Boulder. Let Boulder pay for it themselves and subsidize it! Ain't nothing wrong with people voting to pay for something, no matter how useless it may be - we vote for nonsensical spending all the time!

As I have suggested in the past, ANY infrastructure spending coming from the state or federal government should have yuuge strings attached and reward communities/states which effectively force changes to local zoning laws. All federal spending should have these strings IMO. Trump proposed a working group that came to this conclusion with Ben Carson leading and the media reaction was quite different, as you may imagine. Nonetheless, this opinion piece from NYT perfectly summarizes the connection between transit and development, for anyone wanting to parlay this back into a development forum.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/12/o...re-zoning.html
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