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  #9141  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DenvertoLA View Post
Delivering a new wilderness area for the hunting/fishing community would have helped him.
Not sure I agree with this. Designated wilderness is awfully hard to hunt. Carrying out hundreds of pounds of animal over long distances without the help of anything motorized ain't easy. Most hunters would prefer it be public, roadless is maybe fine too, but open to ATVs. At least, I don't think walking wilderness wins a lot of hunter votes.

Now, the REI crowd, most of whom have never shot a rifle, that's different... but they're probably not voting for Gardner either way.
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  #9142  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
Not sure I agree with this. Designated wilderness is awfully hard to hunt. Carrying out hundreds of pounds of animal over long distances without the help of anything motorized ain't easy. Most hunters would prefer it be public, roadless is maybe fine too, but open to ATVs. At least, I don't think walking wilderness wins a lot of hunter votes.

Not that I would want to field dress an elk and then hump out multiple loads of meat, but it would certainly up the macho factor... throw on 75-100 lbs of meat along with your kit and step out and you beard would instantly be 45% fuller.
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  #9143  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 3:51 PM
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Welp, it sounds like Zia Sunnyside - the large development over by the 41st & Fox station decided to convert from for-sale condos to rental apartments.

I got the info via e-mail, not the article below.


https://denverite.com/2017/11/24/sun...os-confluence/
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  #9144  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 6:10 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
Welp, it sounds like Zia Sunnyside - the large development over by the 41st & Fox station decided to convert from for-sale condos to rental apartments.

I got the info via e-mail, not the article below.


https://denverite.com/2017/11/24/sun...os-confluence/
Not surprising. I've heard Lakehouse is really struggling and Edge LoHi is only doing ok, granted both are trying to sell through a pandemic. Strangely enough, the SFH market in Denver metro is still red hot. Condos are just tough, you're talking $600/sf+ for a tiny amount of space. How many people are really interested in that AND can afford it? Condos used to be an entry level option on the continuum of housing, now they are just a nice thing to have for the wealthy but serve no real purpose within the housing spectrum in today's market - perhaps condos would serve a purpose by opening up suburban inventory if the boomers would sell their suburban mansions and only live in the condos, but most the old timers seem to be keeping both (for now). I guess they have too many classic cars to store in their 4 car garages stacked on top of the pile of material garbage they've been accumulating for 60 years.
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  #9145  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 6:34 PM
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The condo prices are astronomical. A 2 bed 3 bath unit in Lake House is going for $1.8 million. Not to mention probably a $600+ monthly HOA for all of the amenities. Their lowest priced unit is $525K for a 1 bed 1 bath. This part of Sloan's Lake isn't exactly Cherry Creek (yet) either, with a much sketchier surrounding area and way less neighborhood amenities.

My 2 bed 1 bath unit in Uptown would sell for roughly $410K right now, and I'm 4 blocks from downtown. I just don't see a big market for $500K+ single bedroom condos for anyone that actually lives in it full time.

I've heard that Zocalo's 17th and Newton tower is also pretty much stalled for good.
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  #9146  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyboy733 View Post
Actually rainfall on the Front Range is down about 40% from normal.

Not sure what your point is about Phoenix, other than that region is borderline uninhabitable.
Appreciate your knowledge about the Colorado River.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Monsoon
Quote:
The North American monsoon, variously known as the Southwest monsoon, the Mexican monsoon, the New Mexican monsoon, or the Arizona monsoon,[1] is a pattern of pronounced increase in thunderstorms and rainfall over large areas of the southwestern United States and northwestern Mexico, typically occurring between July and mid September.
Denver/Colorado can benefit from these same sources of rain at this time of year.

So far as being "borderline uninhabitable" I actually wish more people felt like you.

Amid high demand, some Valley homebuilders consider lotteries for buyers
Aug 6, 2020 By Angela Gonzales – Senior Reporter, Phoenix Business Journal

Part of this is that "affordability" is never uninhabitable. Ofc, many love the desert landscape. It's grown on me but not an original fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvertoLA View Post
taking the bait on wilderness

it is quite pathetic that Colorado only has around 3.5 million acres of designated wilderness when it touts such an outdoor/ recreation/ hunting/ fishing/ etc. life style.

With such an influx of people to the state, it best expand on what lands still qualify for that title while they still do. (If Colorado wants to maintain that reputation.
Maybe somebody else knows this but I'd guess that a significant percentage of suitable land is already either Federally or State owned?

One of my favorites is the Durango to Pagosa Springs area. It's the private camping/resort areas that allow for enjoyment.

There was this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac.../#6574c8e925d5
Quote:
New York hedge fund billionaire Louis Bacon announced his intentions Friday to donate 90,000 acres of land in Colorado toward the creation of the Sangre de Cristo Conservation Area. The donation is the "largest single conservation easement" given to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, according to U.S. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, and will help to preserve a southern portion of the state that includes mountain grasslands, alpine forests and some of the state's highest peaks.
Just as important as anything is GOCO:

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Last edited by TakeFive; Aug 13, 2020 at 10:16 PM.
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  #9147  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 10:07 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
The condo prices are astronomical. A 2 bed 3 bath unit in Lake House is going for $1.8 million. Not to mention probably a $600+ monthly HOA for all of the amenities. Their lowest priced unit is $525K for a 1 bed 1 bath. This part of Sloan's Lake isn't exactly Cherry Creek (yet) either, with a much sketchier surrounding area and way less neighborhood amenities.

My 2 bed 1 bath unit in Uptown would sell for roughly $410K right now, and I'm 4 blocks from downtown. I just don't see a big market for $500K+ single bedroom condos for anyone that actually lives in it full time.

I've heard that Zocalo's 17th and Newton tower is also pretty much stalled for good.
Agreed. I think the market for lower-price condos is probably fine. But yeah, if you are going to spend that much on a condo, you can get a SFH at that point.
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  #9148  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by laniroj View Post
Not surprising. I've heard Lakehouse is really struggling and Edge LoHi is only doing ok, granted both are trying to sell through a pandemic. Strangely enough, the SFH market in Denver metro is still red hot. Condos are just tough, you're talking $600/sf+ for a tiny amount of space. How many people are really interested in that AND can afford it? Condos used to be an entry level option on the continuum of housing, now they are just a nice thing to have for the wealthy but serve no real purpose within the housing spectrum in today's market - perhaps condos would serve a purpose by opening up suburban inventory if the boomers would sell their suburban mansions and only live in the condos, but most the old timers seem to be keeping both (for now). I guess they have too many classic cars to store in their 4 car garages stacked on top of the pile of material garbage they've been accumulating for 60 years.
You make some good points and I now chuckle at your "Boomer" rants.

I previously posted that SFH's are hot all over the country and demand is coming from both millennials and Gen X buyers. Gen X are also buying $million and up homes down here as 2nd homes and eventual retirement homes. These buyers are coming mostly from the upper mid-west and NE.

You are likely correct about a hesitancy to buy as it relates to cost value of limited space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
I've heard that Zocalo's 17th and Newton tower is also pretty much stalled for good.
Weren't these supposed to be affordable units?
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  #9149  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 11:11 PM
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Yep, 50% affordable.
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  #9150  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2020, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyboy733 View Post
I found RiNo Art Park has unceremoniously opened! At 35th & Arkins, it includes the adaptive reuse of an industrial shell (distance center right) with lots of cool features.

[IMG]IMG_20200730_102911512_HDR[/IMG]
River North Park opening celebrated in RiNo
Aug 13, 2020 by: Keely Sugden/KVDR
Quote:
DENVER (KDVR) – A new green space, the 3.5-acre River North Park, opened on Thursday in an area formerly home to warehouses, rail and manufacturing businesses.

The park, located along the South Platte River in River North on Arkins Court, is part of the Game Plan for a Healthy City to provide community gathering places.
But that's not all...
Quote:
Thursday was also the groundbreaking for phase one of the River North Promenade, featuring flexible festival space, anticipated to be completed in 2021.
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  #9151  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2020, 3:57 AM
Robert.hampton Robert.hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
The condo prices are astronomical. A 2 bed 3 bath unit in Lake House is going for $1.8 million. Not to mention probably a $600+ monthly HOA for all of the amenities.
Looks like your HOA is going to hit close to $600 with their entry level units -- which is nuts because that's like an extra 30% on your mortgage. Up around 1.8 mill the HOAs jump to over 1k per month....which I guess is a comparative steal. Luxury condos I think is a tough sledding, but luxury condos with these kind of fees are really reserved for a small audience. And that audience probably doesnt want to be a block from colfax.
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  #9152  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2020, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by laniroj View Post
Not surprising. I've heard Lakehouse is really struggling and Edge LoHi is only doing ok, granted both are trying to sell through a pandemic. Strangely enough, the SFH market in Denver metro is still red hot. Condos are just tough, you're talking $600/sf+ for a tiny amount of space. How many people are really interested in that AND can afford it?
There seems to be a disconnect between the SFH and condo market. SFH's are still selling fast, especially at lower price points. These are outdated 1000-2000 sf homes that may not even be in good neighborhoods. If you could sell condos for a similar price but instead of 1500 sf they are 1000 sf but are new and in better locations they would likely go fast. The problem has been land is so expensive in desirable locations in Denver it pushes costs up for new product so it has to be luxury to even pencil.
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  #9153  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2020, 3:49 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
There seems to be a disconnect between the SFH and condo market. SFH's are still selling fast, especially at lower price points. These are outdated 1000-2000 sf homes that may not even be in good neighborhoods. If you could sell condos for a similar price but instead of 1500 sf they are 1000 sf but are new and in better locations they would likely go fast. The problem has been land is so expensive in desirable locations in Denver it pushes costs up for new product so it has to be luxury to even pencil.
Don't forget construction costs and the ever growing impact fee burdens. Land is a component but in many areas outside of CCD, impact fees can be two or three times the cost (per unit) of land. Ultimately, construction costs will need to come down if we want condo inventory and cities will need to offer incentives to developers for condo construction by waiving impact fees. The opportunity is really suburban condos which can still be built at an affordable level. The bigger problem is there is no zoning for that kind of density/product in the suburbs and nobody wants to take the rezone risk anymore because it's such a cluster everywhere, all the time, because...who knows.
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  #9154  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2020, 4:47 PM
DenvertoLA DenvertoLA is offline
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Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
Not sure I agree with this. Designated wilderness is awfully hard to hunt. Carrying out hundreds of pounds of animal over long distances without the help of anything motorized ain't easy. Most hunters would prefer it be public, roadless is maybe fine too, but open to ATVs. At least, I don't think walking wilderness wins a lot of hunter votes.

Now, the REI crowd, most of whom have never shot a rifle, that's different... but they're probably not voting for Gardner either way.
that's very specific to big game hunting. small game, pheasant it shouldn't make a difference, in fact having no roads could create opportunities to access to these creatures because they won't be frightened by cars and such.
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  #9155  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2020, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DenvertoLA View Post
that's very specific to big game hunting. small game, pheasant it shouldn't make a difference, in fact having no roads could create opportunities to access to these creatures because they won't be frightened by cars and such.
A lot of pheasants in Colorado's wilderness areas?
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  #9156  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2020, 8:50 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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I don't see this getting very far, and even if it did get on the ballot, I suspect it will go down in flames just like the camping ban ballot initiative during our last mayoral election.....

https://denverite.com/2020/08/14/cou...a-peace-force/
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  #9157  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2020, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
I don't see this getting very far, and even if it did get on the ballot, I suspect it will go down in flames just like the camping ban ballot initiative during our last mayoral election.....

https://denverite.com/2020/08/14/cou...a-peace-force/
Is Curtis Park in the lady's district?

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/08/...omeless-camps/
Quote:
DENVER (CBS4) — On the north edge of Denver’s downtown, gunshots are becoming a regular song of the night. Even the daytime. Residents say violence and drug dealing are taking over encampments in an area where people experiencing homelessness have been seeking refuge for decades.

“Things have changed demonstrably in the last four months,” says Noah Geisel, who lives on Curtis St. near Park Avenue West. “A half dozen shootings in the past two weeks, brutal beat downs, multiple overdoses, and that’s just the serious stuff.”

Geisel said he watched a man brutally beaten on the street. Video was captured on a camera that keeps an eye on the street.

Neighbor Flor Saldias said she walks four blocks around the long way lately to reach her home. “They are under drug abuse all day long,” Saldias said. “So obviously something will go wrong in that environment.”
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-violent-crime
Quote:
DENVER -- Shootings, drug dealing, vandalism and intimidation.

Residents in the East Colfax neighborhood say they've had enough, and they want the city and its police department to do something about it. "It's got to the point where the kids are even scared. They can't take the trash out anymore," said Hidden Brook resident Brenda Wright.

Statistics show violent crime, like murder and aggravated assault, is on the upswing city-wide.
Sadly, David Sachs et al and Denverite carry the water for these miscreants as if they were the victims. What about ordinary people who have ordinary jobs just wanting to live their own life in peace.

Denver City Councilwoman Candi CdeBaca

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  #9158  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2020, 2:35 PM
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Welcome to Denver's Urban Jungle

What's really sad is that Denver seems to be losing the war?

https://www.downtowndenver.com/wp-co...iative_300.pdf
Quote:
  • The City and County of Denver spends $50 million annually on services for the homeless.
  • In addition to expenditures by the City, just the few organizations who’s budgets could be determined, metro area charitable organizations spend over an additional $90 million annually. For comparison, in 2017, CDOT spent $89.6 million statewide on roadway expansion projects.
  • The combination of City and charitable expenditures equates to approximately $26,000 per homeless individual. For comparison the current spending per-pupil in Denver Public Schools is $17,365.
According to a recent article in the Denver Post, the Department of Safety now consumes $588 million. This does include ~30 non-department individuals like social workers and interpreters. Representing 40% of the total budget this is not bad. How much of that budget would you guess goes for addiction related crimes?

Any individual addicted to meth, Heroin or Fentanyl-laced whatever is a personal tragedy. But for all the services that the city provides it appears that the primary winners are the Mexican Cartels. One thing I'm certain of is that letting the inmates run the asylum is NOT a solution.

Recently, the Colorado Coalition for the Homeless acquired the Quality Inn and Suites at 3737 N. Quebec St. with a 139 units to convert to serving the homeless. More of this type of approach would be good but where can you find these opportunities?

In summary

It makes no difference to me: urban living versus suburban sprawl. In the 1970's Denver experienced "white flight". Are they now setting themselves up for "homeless flight"? I do understand that homeless people exist in the suburbs but it seem to not be the same problem that exists downtown. So much for all those services, eh.
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  #9159  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2020, 6:02 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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There are several issues with dealing with homeless, and unfortunately, some of the hard solutions face serious challenges. There are some homeless that really need to be forced into treatment to get help. However, that requires:
1) Funding for good facilities, good people, and public buy-in.
2.) Giving the authority to forcibly remove people off the streets and force them into treatment.

(1) would probably require additional funding from the public, and investment into facilities.
(2) Would immediately be challenged by ACLU in the courts and struck down via the SCOTUS decision from the 70s.

So.... Until those things change, you won't see homeless go away anytime soon.
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  #9160  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2020, 1:15 PM
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