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  #201  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2021, 8:47 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Not entirely comparable. Housing starts are strictly new residential units; whereas building permits would include renovations, additions, replacement dwellings, and non-residential construction. On the other hand, a single multi-unit building would likely entail only a single building permit, so permits aren't otherwise a great indicator of the number of housing units being added.

Also, I'm getting 38,587 housing starts (all types) for Toronto CMA in 2020, per the link above?
Good Catch!

I see what happened, when you first click 'annual' and it says '2020' below, you get the lower number I quoted.

But you can see, if you look, that its actually for 2021 (presumably YTD).

When I found that I was able to shift to 2020, and I got your numbers!
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  #202  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2021, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Not entirely comparable. Housing starts are strictly new residential units; whereas building permits would include renovations, additions, replacement dwellings, and non-residential construction. On the other hand, a single multi-unit building would likely entail only a single building permit, so permits aren't otherwise a great indicator of the number of housing units being added.

Also, I'm getting 38,587 housing starts (all types) for Toronto CMA in 2020, per the link above?
The building permit data per the links is for "New Private Housing Structures Authorized by Building Permits for New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA (MSA)"

So it appears to exclude renovations, additions, and non-residential construction.

I can see how multi-unit buildings might just need 1 permit, but doesn't that mean NYC's count is understated, not overstated?

---

Here's more detailed breakout of New Privately Owned Housing Units Authorized: https://www.census.gov/construction/bps/msaannual.html.
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  #203  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2021, 9:05 PM
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For New York City, this report shows permits issued; and completions, but not Starts.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories...42ff156345a719

According to the report there were 20,000 units completed in 2020
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  #204  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2021, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Segun View Post
The amount of low rise building in NYC is astounding and probably falls under the radar. I'm pretty sure nobody is touching the Big Apple when you factor in low rises, but who knows.
The same is true for Toronto tons of midrises under construction all over the city
Check out it's construction page: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...80485&page=178
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  #205  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2021, 10:47 PM
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The us competed 375,000 multifamily units in 2020, the most in thirty years ; 55% of the units were buildings with more than 50 units . Assuming these averaged 100 units/building , that’s 2000 buildings . Are there comparable numbers for Canada ?

It’s harder to prove , but looking at for example Dallas , I believe that most of the build is concentrated in urban or new urbanism locations .

Completions by metro area :

https://reintelligent.com/apartment-...f-completions/

Interesting dc was #1 in terms of completions by submarket with 4000 units completed in navy yard / southwest in one year !. Astounding, that’s a game changer for the area. Downtown Chicago , Kansas City , and Houston — River oaks also did well
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Last edited by dc_denizen; Oct 7, 2021 at 11:02 PM.
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  #206  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2021, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
The us competed 375,000 multifamily units in 2020, the most in thirty years ; 55% of the units were buildings with more than 50 units . Assuming these averaged 100 units/building , that’s 2000 buildings . Are there comparable numbers for Canada ?
Canada-Wide Housing Starts, by quarter, by type:

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...101%2C20211001

Looking at the 4 quarters of 2020:

Number of apartment units started: 122,951

Row Houses and Semis are separate classifications.
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  #207  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2021, 1:45 AM
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New York -- of course!
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  #208  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2021, 6:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
Not sure if this has been touched on yet in this thread, but these numbers are total buildings under construction. Emporis isn't just skyscrapers. The database also includes pretty much any type of human built structure, so these numbers could be anything from skyscrapers to antennas to sculptures to amphitheaters and you can't see what types the u/c structures are without an Emporis account.

Last edited by DetroitSky; Oct 8, 2021 at 6:28 AM.
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  #209  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2021, 7:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
Austin has 27 buildings 12 floors and taller under construction at the moment, and there are another 7 doing site prep right now that will start construction soon. 16 of those are residential or have a residential component. We're going to eclipse 250 high rises under construction and completed by early next year. This data does not come from Emporis. It's from building elevations from the site plans that we've gathered here on the forum through the city, and these are only projects under construction.

https://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?cityID=93&statusID=2
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Oct 13, 2021 at 8:53 PM.
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  #210  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2021, 8:38 AM
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I'm pretty sure there are more than 12 buildings in the Seaport / Southie alone over 12 stories currently u/c in Boston.

There's definitely more than 12 buildings at 12+ floors u/c in Cambridge. There might be in Somerville already too, but once all the Davis Square stuff starts, add it to the list.

That Boston number is way off. I'll see if I can find the real number at ArchBoston.
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  #211  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2021, 4:14 PM
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I count Seattle at 30 underway. Bellevue another 13.

Site prep is hard to gauge. Seattle allows earlier demo than it used to...made easier to avoid homeless fires etc. And a lot of projects are clearing sites and waiting for Covid or whatever. A few projects started then stopped and exist as holes in the ground. Several have been active in permitting like they might start soon.

Last edited by mhays; Oct 8, 2021 at 5:59 PM.
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  #212  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 3:38 AM
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I'm seeing 32 u/c in Boston, 10 u/c in Cambridge, and 3 in Somerville.

This is from our own Diagrams plus some ArchBoston input.
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  #213  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 3:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Did they forget to track NYC??

Anyways, the other problem with counting cranes is that it doesn't take into account construction time. A 50 storey building may take several years to complete while a 12 storey one may take less than a year.

Many cities might not be getting tracked as well, speaking for Kitchener-Waterloo where I used to live, the SSP database is missing several buildings.

Waterloo is missing

Recently completed (and not listed in any form)
255 Sunview, 258B Sunview, 258A Sunview, 246 Lester, 256 Lester, 131 University W

U/C
239A & 239B Albert, Elora House, 460A & 460B Columbia W

Proposed
Westmount Place (down to just 1 residential tower), 316 King N, 508 Beechwood, 635 Erb St W, 12 Westhill, Kraus Flooring redevelopment (preliminary proposal of 8 high rises)

So it currently has 10 highrises U/C. Development is shifting to sister city Kitchener. SSP's database has it at 8 highrises U/C and 16 proposed which is good for a small city but at a glance, at least a few projects are missing.
So Waterloo has 10, Kitchener 13 U/C. Kitchener also has 31 highrises proposed. Cambridge should have a few more. Not bad for a metro area of 600,000. Dozens of midrises in addition to those too.

Last edited by memph; Oct 10, 2021 at 7:28 PM.
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  #214  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 3:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DetroitSky View Post
Not sure if this has been touched on yet in this thread, but these numbers are total buildings under construction. Emporis isn't just skyscrapers. The database also includes pretty much any type of human built structure, so these numbers could be anything from skyscrapers to antennas to sculptures to amphitheaters and you can't see what types the u/c structures are without an Emporis account.
Yeah the Detroit number is likely with renovations included I'm guessing (Park Avenue Building, Michigan Central, Albert Kahn building, etc.).

Still impressive though.
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Last edited by The North One; Oct 12, 2021 at 6:04 PM.
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  #215  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 4:55 AM
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83 for Houston seems like a lot. Educated guess to me would be like 15-20 buildings over 12 stories or more going up. 12 stories is taller than what our infill apartments tend to be here. Downtown has like 3 towers going up, there's 2-3 more in Midtown and Museum district, then 2 talls in the Medical Center + 5 or 6 in TMC3, then 2 or 3 towers in Uptown and 2 in Memorial City. Maybe there's some lesser known projects that are over 12 stories I'm forgotting, like mid-priced chain hotels or suburban hospital bed towers, but probably no more than 5-10.

Is there a way to see a list of what these buildings are? Also where they are? Wild guess: maybe industrial or maritime structures of some kind that somebody took the time to record in their database. Refinery towers, offshore equipment in drydock, shipyard cranes, or something weird like that. Maybe when this report was compiled a telecom company was deploying 5G with dozens of not really noticeable pole towers over 120' and for some reason those counted as U/C? Basically anything that's not a normal building, because if we had 83 high rise office or condo towers going up it would be obvious enough on this forum.

Last edited by llamaorama; Oct 10, 2021 at 5:09 AM.
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  #216  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 5:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Yeah the Detroit number is likely with renovations included I'm guessing (Park Avenue Building, Michigan Central, Albert Khan building, etc.).

Still impressive though.
On Emporis buildings under renovation are considered completed. They’re shown as “existing [under renovation]”. Those numbers are buildings under construction, but they’re not all skyscrapers/highrises.

The Detroit total under construction is currently 24. That includes 17 low rises between 4-10 floors, 4 highrises, 1 skyscraper, 1 bridge and 1 parking garage. The buildings shown under construction for every other city has a similar composition. As I stated up thread, Emporis includes pretty much every kind of manmade structure, not just skyscrapers.
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  #217  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 5:21 PM
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Communist Party of China is probably building the most in North America.

62 currently listed in the SSP database as completed in 2020 in Toronto with 18 having 35 floors or more. A whooooole lot of ugly mullion caps and back painted spandrel glass.
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  #218  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 7:49 PM
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The change in Toronto skyline over the last decade has been phenomenal and the pace is not slowly down anytime soon either.

here is the Yonge axis from the lake to Yorkville



Plenty of more under construction projects in the rest of the city as well
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...80485&page=178
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  #219  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 8:03 PM
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  #220  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 8:16 PM
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For the U.S., why aren't people just using the Census data? Seems pretty straightforward.

Pretty much every year, at least in recent history, Dallas-Forth Worth or Houston are building the most SFH, and NYC is building the most multifamily.

The Census has monthly MSA data, through August 2021, and going back many years.

https://www.census.gov/construction/bps/msamonthly.html
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