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  #4641  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2009, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Abner View Post
You forgot to quote this fun tidbit from the article:

"In early February, Daley said he has a wish list of projects he wants funded. Unlike other leaders, however, Daley said he wouldn't tell the public because of concerns "the newspapers, the media is going to be ripping it apart," he said."

Does he even pretend to be held accountable democratically anymore?
Shizer!

Fuhrer Daley does not answer to anyone!

Seriously though, I kind of laughed at that...God forbid he have to EXPLAIN his use of taxpayer money.
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  #4642  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2009, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Abner View Post
You forgot to quote this fun tidbit from the article:

"In early February, Daley said he has a wish list of projects he wants funded. Unlike other leaders, however, Daley said he wouldn't tell the public because of concerns "the newspapers, the media is going to be ripping it apart," he said."

Does he even pretend to be held accountable democratically anymore?
If he goes public with it, then it becomes subject to the standard racially-charged City Council childish feces-flinging - or at least that's how I interpret his remarks. This is a snub of the Council moreso than of you or I or Joe Taxpayer, since we never really had a say anyway even if the list were public. As a lesser evil, I'd take Daley's politically-motivated project selection over that of the aldermen any day.
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  #4643  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2009, 6:27 PM
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Blah blah blah. What exactly is Daley afraid of from the City Council? Perhaps it'll cost him the vote of one alderman on some frivolous proposal as he successfully strong-arms the other 49? He's the mayor, he was elected, and elected officials don't make lame excuses for keeping secrets from their constituents. If he's afraid of the media contesting his choices, he should get out of the mayor business.
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  #4644  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2009, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
If he goes public with it, then it becomes subject to the standard racially-charged City Council childish feces-flinging - or at least that's how I interpret his remarks. This is a snub of the Council moreso than of you or I or Joe Taxpayer, since we never really had a say anyway even if the list were public. As a lesser evil, I'd take Daley's politically-motivated project selection over that of the aldermen any day.
You honestly think this is a better idea that having any community involvement? LaHood could easily reject Daley’s plan as is, and in all likelihood it has a higher chance at failure the less public vetting occurs on it.

These are SHOVEL READY projects. The Alderman shouldn’t be left out in the cold on this. We have elected officials for a reason.
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  #4645  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2009, 9:06 PM
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If he's afraid of the media contesting his choices, he should get out of the mayor business.
I don't think he's afraid of the media contesting his choices. That's just what he said, not necessarily what he means. The media in this town tend to join in the cheerleading/promotion of his initiatives when it is made clear that they should (e.g. Olympics).

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You honestly think this is a better idea that having any community involvement? LaHood could easily reject Daley’s plan as is, and in all likelihood it has a higher chance at failure the less public vetting occurs on it.

These are SHOVEL READY projects. The Alderman shouldn’t be left out in the cold on this. We have elected officials for a reason.
Community involvement would seem to be more important before projects are identified and designed. The stimulus is money going out the door to start construction on projects that are already at 100% design.

Either way, I'm pretty sure we aren't getting the whole story behind what's cooking in City Hall, Springfield, and DOT, and I see no reason to take Daley's weird remarks at face value. I could speculate 100 different scenarios regarding who is pulling whose strings, but really we don't know. I'd be surprised if certain Aldermen didn't know exactly which projects in their ward will be happening, with others being deliberately kept in the dark. And again, for as much as I could gripe about Daley, the notion of our Aldermen making important decisions is even more terrifying.
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  #4646  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2009, 11:01 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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You honestly think this is a better idea that having any community involvement?
Yes, it is better. The "community" doesn't know what's best for it when it comes to some things. For example, do you think anyone would support it if Daley wanted 500 million for a new EL line up Ashland? People would freak out because they don't want the noise, yet having an El line that would be great for the communities. Daley has done nothing but improve Chicago, Democracy is overrated, get over it...
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  #4647  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 12:42 AM
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Did anyone see the Peoples Republic of Capitalism w/ Ted Koppel on Discovery Channel? It has an American architect working in China pretty much saying that if China had a true democratic government, the huge scaled development and rampant construction that has grown the Chinese economy by leaps and bounds probably would never happen. Sound familiar? He's describing 'don't tread on me' - 'Not In My Back Yard' America.
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  #4648  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 12:55 AM
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Okay, this is getting to be a little much for the Chicago Transit thread. Surely there is somewhere else to rally against democracy.

Last edited by Abner; Mar 5, 2009 at 1:12 AM.
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  #4649  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
Yes, it is better. The "community" doesn't know what's best for it when it comes to some things. For example, do you think anyone would support it if Daley wanted 500 million for a new EL line up Ashland? People would freak out because they don't want the noise, yet having an El line that would be great for the communities. Daley has done nothing but improve Chicago, Democracy is overrated, get over it...
Ok Stalin... Easy to say democracy is overrated when you live in one.
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  #4650  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 6:39 AM
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Ok Stalin... Easy to say democracy is overrated when you live in one.
So you admit your criticisms about Daley and Chicago being undemocratic are complete BS then?

And how is thinking Democracy is overrated in anyway similar to Stalin's views? I'm pretty sure democracy never even crossed his mind. Remember, thinking its overrated implies you still think its good, but not as great as everyone says it is...

Anyhow, Yay for transit! I think we need some new El lines what do you guys think?
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  #4651  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 1:29 PM
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So you admit your criticisms about Daley and Chicago being undemocratic are complete BS then?

And how is thinking Democracy is overrated in anyway similar to Stalin's views? I'm pretty sure democracy never even crossed his mind. Remember, thinking its overrated implies you still think its good, but not as great as everyone says it is...

Anyhow, Yay for transit! I think we need some new El lines what do you guys think?
Uhhh...No. Daley may not run the CITY government in democratic fashion, but our federal government is doing just fine in that regard.

To say Daley has done nothing but improve Chicago is shortsighted. Some things have improved. Corruption has not. Daley just recently lost the city a $150m in free BRT funds. Stellar job there, DICK!

We can't even comment on transit funding from the stimulus because dipstick Daley hasn't submitted the paperwork...again. He's probably busy, off flying around on some non-profit's private jet.

You might call Daley's tactics fine, but Chicago's economy is overall is in WORSE shape than the rest of the nation, and that's a reflection of it's leadership, not it's people.
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  #4652  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 3:32 PM
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You might call Daley's tactics fine, but Chicago's economy is overall is in WORSE shape than the rest of the nation, and that's a reflection of it's leadership, not it's people.
This is WAY off topic, but you'll have to back that with some figures. Look at unemployment rates for a statistic that doesn't support your view: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...loyment&st=cse

I know the economy overall is hurting the CTA. The budget forecasts from last month were downright alarming. But I think it is a stretch to say that Chicago's economy in particular that is hurting it. If anything, the strength of Chicago's economy is one of the things that has kept the CTA alive this long.
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  #4653  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 4:14 PM
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This is WAY off topic, but you'll have to back that with some figures. Look at unemployment rates for a statistic that doesn't support your view: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...loyment&st=cse

I know the economy overall is hurting the CTA. The budget forecasts from last month were downright alarming. But I think it is a stretch to say that Chicago's economy in particular that is hurting it. If anything, the strength of Chicago's economy is one of the things that has kept the CTA alive this long.
At the end of December, Chicago's unemployment rate was 7.6%. The nations was 7.2%. In addition, look at Chicago's unemployment rate to other large cities. LA and NY both have lower unemployment rates, by almost 3/4 of a percent.

http://www.ides.state.il.us/economy/cps.pdf

In January, we saw national unemployment jump to 7.6%. I think it's fair to say Chicago's employment situation worsened also, though we don't have that number yet.

I'm not saying chicago's economy is hurting the CTA so much as I'm saying it's tax base (real estate transfer taxes, for one) were of a poor design. That was Daley's and Blago's concession and it's bombed, and not only hurt the CTA but it also has been prohibitive to real estate transactions. It is essentially the city's "EF U" tax to home buyers and sellers.

Daley has mismanaged this town for too long. Nothing he’s ever placed his hands on has come in on budget. He’s pawned off income producing assets and is mayor of the highest taxed city in America. Bottom line, Chicago is a wonderful town in spite of Daley, not because of him.
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  #4654  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 4:31 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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^^^ This discussion should go to another thread.
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  #4655  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago View Post
Daley just recently lost the city a $150m in free BRT funds. Stellar job there, DICK!
The proposal was ready to go, but Daley didn't want to bring the congestion charge before the Council who would have shot it down, coming on the heels of the meter lease. As usual, the story is more complicated than "Daley lost the city money omglol!!11." I still don't get why you take everything you read in the papers at face value when everything out of every politician's mouth (perhaps in this town more than most) is some sort of charade or game.
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  #4656  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 5:55 PM
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The proposal was ready to go, but Daley didn't want to bring the congestion charge before the Council who would have shot it down, coming on the heels of the meter lease. As usual, the story is more complicated than "Daley lost the city money omglol!!11." I still don't get why you take everything you read in the papers at face value when everything out of every politician's mouth (perhaps in this town more than most) is some sort of charade or game.
You actually believe Daley’s excuse about the meter vote timing? Really? The vote should have occurred LONG BEFORE that proposal, which might I add was shotgunned through for a vote on purpose.

Then Daley had the balls to blame the previous administration for being inflexible…with a GRANT…after NYC missed out on this same money for missing a deadline. Sadly, people like you believe him, and that’s why he continues to get elected. The stockyards might be gone, but Chicago is still full of sheep.
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  #4657  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 6:55 PM
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You might call Daley's tactics fine, but Chicago's economy is overall is in WORSE shape than the rest of the nation, and that's a reflection of it's leadership, not it's people.
Chicago's actually in a lot better shape than the rest of the Midwest and most large American cities, I think.

Regarding the virtues of democracy, Winston Churchill said it best ("Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others"). But while they're necessary as a check on mayoral power, I wouldn't want city aldermen to have any real decision-making abilities. Most people whose political careers peak at that level (that is to say, most city aldermen) aren't qualified to be dogcatcher. This is true in any city - the NY city council is filled with people who are either incompetent, crooks, or both. Benevolent dictatorship isn't actually a bad form of governance for a city like Chicago or New York, provided the dictator is effective and benevolent, and I think Daley and Bloomberg are both pretty decent in this regard.
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  #4658  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 8:10 PM
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At the end of December, Chicago's unemployment rate was 7.6%. The nations was 7.2%. In addition, look at Chicago's unemployment rate to other large cities. LA and NY both have lower unemployment rates, by almost 3/4 of a percent.
...
I can't find directly comparable numbers for all three cities, but:

LA county's unemployment rate in January was 10.5% source

New York City's unemployment rate in January was 7.3% source

Chicago's metro area unemployment rate in December was 6.9% source (city of Chicago data for January available next week)
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  #4659  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 8:39 PM
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You actually believe Daley’s excuse about the meter vote timing? Really? The vote should have occurred LONG BEFORE that proposal, which might I add was shotgunned through for a vote on purpose.

Then Daley had the balls to blame the previous administration for being inflexible…with a GRANT…after NYC missed out on this same money for missing a deadline. Sadly, people like you believe him, and that’s why he continues to get elected. The stockyards might be gone, but Chicago is still full of sheep.
LOL. Ok.
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  #4660  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2009, 9:06 PM
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I can't find directly comparable numbers for all three cities, but:

LA county's unemployment rate in January was 10.5% source

New York City's unemployment rate in January was 7.3% source

Chicago's metro area unemployment rate in December was 6.9% source (city of Chicago data for January available next week)
I've already answered this in another question, but LA county is not encompassing LA's full metro, including parts of Orange county. That said, I was probably (our current unemployment rate is not available yet) wrong in the assesment of the UE, but that isn't a assessment of the full economy.
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