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  #11401  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 10:36 PM
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It would be interesting to see a market analysis of the construction costs versus the sale price of the land created.

I doubt it's self-financing, but I'm sure it would offset some of it.
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  #11402  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 10:49 PM
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Ivory University House - Commercial Demolition

https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Cit...howInspection=

Address: 1928 E South Campus

Commercial Demolition has been filed for the "demolition of existing LDS Chapel to make way for Ivory University House."
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  #11403  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 10:59 PM
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Thanks everyone for the kind words! This project has been highly rewarding to work on, and I'm glad our hard work is getting out to the public at large.

We are using a cost estimate of $300-500 million, mainly because those are costs of the two 'precedent projects' we reference in the proposal. Reno NV completed their 2-mile long trench+station rehabilitation for $300 million in 2005. The 'Train Box' for the Rio Grande project is only 1 mile long (so about half as many utility impacts) but would be about twice as wide, which makes it more expensive to cover with a street above it.

Note, this is not a tunnel. This is a single integrated box structure. Picture a multi-story parking structure with trains in the basement and cars on the surface level. Building as a single structure makes things so much cheaper than a conventional tunnel. A good comparison would be the parking garage beside the Wells Fargo building, which if you unwind it, would also be about a mile long. The point is that this 'train box' wouldn't be the biggest structure in downtown - we already have car infrastructure larger than what we are proposing.

The other project is, of course, Denver's Union Station, which cost around $500 million in 2014. That project realigned 0.5 miles of light rail track, demolished the existing transit center, rehabilitated the historic depot building, constructed an entirely new rail terminal with 8 tracks (our plan has only 6, but because ours is a through-station, we would have a higher capacity than Denver) and then built a huge underground bus station (which coincidently has the same square feet as our underground train platforms).

So at this point we see our plan as being larger than Reno's, but smaller than Denver's, so we feel it is appropriate to give the range of $300-500 million.

I like this comparison, because it also highlights what our neighboring cities have done. Reno and Denver are our largest neighbors on the east-west rail route, and they were forward-thinking enough to address the rail issues in their downtowns. We can do the same.

If we get busy on this project, there is the potential to have something done and ready by the next Utah Olympics, especially if they happen in 2034.

There was the question of future High Speed Rail capability. However likely it is that HSR ever comes to SLC, I think it would be wise to build the east-west commuter line (between Tooele and Park City) as HSR-compatible. It would stop at the same platforms at the Rio Grande as the 'Lake-to-Mountain' commuter trains, and might share a few other stops as well (such as the SLC airport connector stop, or Kimball's Junction near Park City). Getting any rail between SLC and Park City is actually a larger stretch than completing the Rio Grande Plan, IMO, and getting HSR money from the government to 'future-proof' this corridor actually makes rail to Park City more probable, I believe.

Anyway, its exiting times for the Rio Grande Plan! Hopefullly we'll hear more from the Mayor and the City council in the near future (they are having a formal meeting on this document soon, along with other transit leaders in the area). No matter how that meeting goes, we need to do all we can to get the plan out into the larger public conversation. Make it an issue, something that the politicians need to talk about. Without the support of the general public, nothing can happen. Perhaps nothing will happen even if the public does support it, but certainly nothing will happen if they don't. This is to say that I am not done with this plan, and I apologize in advance for how obnoxious I am going to be about pushing it 'out there.'
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  #11404  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 11:25 PM
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Hatman, Perhaps you've already done this and I missed it. Do you have the e-mails of those specific movers and shakers that you would like us to send a supportive note to? I'm sure you've become very aware of certain individuals who are in powerful decision-making positions politically and or financially. Perhaps some which we would not have even known about.
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  #11405  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
^^^

There was this quoted in the BuildingSaltLake report...https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/the...tys-attention/
Just for reference, the Cottonwood Canyon transportation proposals are $500m or more for each, including just "enhanced bus service". So a $300-500m estimate is about in line with other initiatives. Mountainview Corridor was about $225m, requested Frontrunner expansion is $350m.
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  #11406  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 4:01 AM
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Looks like the Convexity project has some movement.

https://twitter.com/dtsaltlakecity/s...246195721?s=21

I’m

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  #11407  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 4:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
Hatman, Perhaps you've already done this and I missed it. Do you have the e-mails of those specific movers and shakers that you would like us to send a supportive note to? I'm sure you've become very aware of certain individuals who are in powerful decision-making positions politically and or financially. Perhaps some which we would not have even known about.
When we get to that stage, I will let everyone know. Many things need to be done before this informal proposal becomes a formal plan that a single leader or council needs to approve. Nobody I've talked to is quite sure what the next step forward should be. We're trying to meet with as many potential decision makers as we can, while at the same time building public awareness and support. Hopefully we will one day find a 'champion' for the project with real political authority who can drive this project forward - but until then, I suppose the best people to write to would be members of the state government.
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  #11408  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 6:13 AM
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Love it, but the pessimist in me gives it about a .005% chance of happening
Honestly I would peg the chances as actually pretty significantly higher than that. Given the success similar projects have had in Reno and Denver - as Hatman said, two of our nearest major city neighbors - as well as the high ceiling on economic benefits and relatively reasonable cost, I think this actually has a decent chance of being implemented. Now, is it going to do everything that the plan proposes? Probably not, but even getting 75% of this would be a huge huge victory.

If we get the Olympics, I think that puts it from "possible" to "probable" territory, to be honest.

Hatman, I am so excited that your proposal is starting to gain traction. As a lifelong resident of the city, long-time transit user, prospective city planner, and current west downtown resident, the thought of this happening makes me unbelievably excited. Watching this on the forum grow from the seeds of an idea complete with your self-made maps to a fully-fledged proposal that ~important people~ are aware of has been a wonder. I will do my part to spread the word about this proposal!
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  #11409  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 6:20 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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One question I have about restoration of the Rio Grande Depot - I know that the depot was damaged fairly significantly by the earthquake. Would that be proposed to increase the costs of renovating the depot, or were the planned renovations extensive enough that it doesn't significantly affect the cost?
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  #11410  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 1:18 PM
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Atlas had posted these last November and I thought they would be worth posting one more time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
EDIT: I just found some incredible recent drone pictures of downtown SLC from a chap on Facebook named Scott Taylor. He also took the photos I shared a few days ago. Take a look at these:














.
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  #11411  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
The other project is, of course, Denver's Union Station, which cost around $500 million in 2014. That project realigned 0.5 miles of light rail track, demolished the existing transit center, rehabilitated the historic depot building, constructed an entirely new rail terminal with 8 tracks (our plan has only 6, but because ours is a through-station, we would have a higher capacity than Denver) and then built a huge underground bus station (which coincidently has the same square feet as our underground train platforms).
The Denver Union Station is fantastic and seeing it in-person nowadays, with the impressive urban neighborhood that has grown up around the station (before and after shots), is enough to convince anyone that the Rio Grande Plan is a good idea for SLC. The biggest drawback the Denver station has, like you allude to, is that it's not a through-station. As a result, the whole Denver transit system still feels disjointed to me.

The Rio Grande Plan truly puts the RGD and SLC at the center of northern Utah's transit system. Everyone going north and south will pass through the RGD and it will be possible to go all over the region from downtown SLC. Coupled with a few more TRAX extensions and streetcar lines, SLC will have a remarkable rail transit system for a city of its size by any standard.

Also, I wonder if the RDA's plan for Station Center still includes a permanent public market on the northwest corner of 500 W and 300 S (right behind the RGD). The building on that corner in the most recent renderings looks a lot like the plans from a few years ago.

2017:


2021:


Can you imagine how awesome it would be to have a big public market right behind the revived Rio Grande Central Station?
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Last edited by Atlas; Sep 28, 2021 at 6:05 PM.
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  #11412  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 5:57 PM
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Astra Tower Construction update

A lot of activity at the Astra site today. The fencing has been extended to the street and the bicycle racks are being removed. A backhoe was busy digging out the buried concrete on the site.

I talked to a Jacobsen Construction manager on the site and he told me that preliminary footings will be installed in October and Excavation will begin in November!!! He said there will be more and more activity at the site from now on. He said it was going to be a beautiful building when its completed (which we already know)
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  #11413  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meman View Post
A lot of activity at the Astra site today. The fencing has been extended to the street and the bicycle racks are being removed. A backhoe was busy digging out the buried concrete on the site.

I talked to a Jacobsen Construction manager on the site and he told me that preliminary footings will be installed in October and Excavation will begin in November!!! He said there will be more and more activity at the site from now on. He said it was going to be a beautiful building when its completed (which we already know)
I'm confident this will get done, but I think that schedule is ambitious. I think there will be delays while final financing is resolved. Nothing gets done if there are holes in the capital stack. Just my gut.
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  #11414  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meman View Post
A lot of activity at the Astra site today. The fencing has been extended to the street and the bicycle racks are being removed. A backhoe was busy digging out the buried concrete on the site.

I talked to a Jacobsen Construction manager on the site and he told me that preliminary footings will be installed in October and Excavation will begin in November!!! He said there will be more and more activity at the site from now on. He said it was going to be a beautiful building when its completed (which we already know)
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  #11415  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 8:12 PM
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Looks like we'll have plenty of mid and high-rise developments happening over the next five years to keep this thread very active. Even in the near future, we should have construction occurring on Astra, Convexity, and Moda Luxe all within the same photo shot of each other. That will make for some great construction posts... (Edit)













9 Tower on W. Temple is gearing up for construction in the near future. Also, a lot of mid-rise momentum coming online. The next few years are shaping up to be a very exciting time for Salt Lake City.

Last edited by delts145; Sep 30, 2021 at 2:08 PM.
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  #11416  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
Seems like the Devon Tower on W. Temple is gearing up for construction in the near future.
I wish we were getting Devon Tower on W. Temple.
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  #11417  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 9:14 PM
mattreedah mattreedah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
The Denver Union Station is fantastic and seeing it in-person nowadays, with the impressive urban neighborhood that has grown up around the station (before and after shots), is enough to convince anyone that the Rio Grande Plan is a good idea for SLC. The biggest drawback the Denver station has, like you allude to, is that it's not a through-station. As a result, the whole Denver transit system still feels disjointed to me.

The Rio Grande Plan truly puts the RGD and SLC at the center of northern Utah's transit system. Everyone going north and south will pass through the RGD and it will be possible to go all over the region from downtown SLC. Coupled with a few more TRAX extensions and streetcar lines, SLC will have a remarkable rail transit system for a city of its size by any standard.

Also, I wonder if the RDA's plan for Station Center still includes a permanent public market on the northwest corner of 500 W and 300 S (right behind the RGD). The building on that corner in the most recent renderings looks a lot like the plans from a few years ago.

Can you imagine how awesome it would be to have a big public market right behind the revived Rio Grande Central Station?
I would just make the current Hub on 600 w the Public Market.
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  #11418  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 10:42 PM
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North Temple construction photos taken this morning:






Airport Construction from this morning:

Airport TRAX Station:
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  #11419  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Makid View Post
I think this may be the opposite. Evergrande has stated they won't default on their payment, which has helped the markets to rebound.

The main issue is that they have purchased a lot of building materials for projects in China and around the world. If they have continued issues, they will need to sell the materials at cost or at a discount.

Because they are so big, the amount of materials that could come on the market may help many more projects pencil out where they may not have previously.

Overall, I think that this situation is showing the overextending that was done in and by China to compete more directly with the United States. Investments into and out of China will be higher risk but this will shift to more stable investments such as those within the United States and Western Europe.
Makid

Just for the sake of discussion, my apologies if this is not appropriate for this thread, I keep hearing more and more weakness in Chinese development/housing. I’ve heard this before but Evergrandes Recent troubles and reading up a little bit about their issues makes me think China might finally see a significant slow down in the construction sector. Then on top of that I hear Chinese leadership wants to ween the economy off its reliance on development to sustain its economy. I don’t follow it too close but I’m wondering if someone has a thought going forward. I’m more curious then anything
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  #11420  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 11:40 PM
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Is there really going to be a tower by the name of Devon going up on West Temple? Or is that a joke relating to the Devon Tower in OKC?
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