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  #421  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2021, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
If Chicago to Toronto had 18 round trips a day you could argue that 3 or 4 of them could be some sort of skip stop express. We're nowhere near that level of service and frankly being that it's not high speed rail, nowhere near that kind of demand.
Chicago to Toronto is 511 highway miles, a web site suggests around 12.5 hours to drive averaging around 41 mph. An Amtrak train is not going to make that trip much faster.
If Amtrak was willing to schedule a train every hour between departing from the originating station at 6 am and arriving at the terminating station by 10 pm, they would run trains at 6 am, 7 am, 8 am, and 9 am. That's four trains in one direction, or eight train for both directions.
If Amtrak could double the average speed of the train, they could double the number of trains. This is why speed matters.....
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  #422  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2021, 12:55 AM
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So numerate and so obvious. It's been awhile.
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  #423  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2021, 2:11 PM
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Read that the timeline to restore Amtrak service to the Lehigh Valley is within 3 years. I am thinking that is super optimistic. I believe entirely new stations would need to be built. I don't think there is even a proposed location for a station, at least for Allentown.
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  #424  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2021, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KDD View Post
Read that the timeline to restore Amtrak service to the Lehigh Valley is within 3 years. I am thinking that is super optimistic. I believe entirely new stations would need to be built. I don't think there is even a proposed location for a station, at least for Allentown.
Well, you really do not actually need a station or a platform to run trains. All that is really needed is a public road, a dirt/gravel path to the track, and a sign.

I remember getting off my train car for a smoke break/fresh air station right onto the track ballast. Officially, they conductor would alight passengers and board passengers on more level ground than ballast, but those seeking fresh or polluted air were on the ballast.
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  #425  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2021, 11:59 AM
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Amtrak starts work on Baltimore Penn Station overhaul
The Baltimore Penn Station redevelopment project aims to accommodate increasing commuter growth.



25 Oct 2021
Railway Technology


This project is being executed under Amtrak’s $150m investment that aims to enhance commuter experience and expand passenger rail. (Image courtesy of Railway Technology)

"Amtrak and Penn Station Partners have broken ground on the Baltimore Penn Station redevelopment and platform enlargement project on the Northeast Corridor in Maryland, US.

The project is being executed under Amtrak’s $150m investment, which aims to expand passenger rail.

The previous major overhaul of the 1911-built Penn Station was concluded in 1984 as part of the Northeast Corridor Improvement Project..."

https://www.railway-technology.com/n...tion-overhaul/
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  #426  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2021, 12:07 PM
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Scaled-down plans announced for renovating Penn Station


By David Porter
Associated Press

"NEW YORK (AP) — A new plan to redo New York’s aging and much-maligned Penn Station will be less expansive than earlier visions but will still transform North America’s busiest rail hub from a commuting hellscape into a transformative experience for travelers, Gov. Kathy Hochul said Wednesday as she announced the project.

“This day has been a long time coming,” the Democrat said. “We have the opportunity here to reimagine the whole future of Penn Station and the entire neighborhood.”

The current 53-year-old Penn Station sits underneath the Madison Square Garden arena and is reviled by commuters for its low, dingy corridors, lack of windows, and overall unsightliness..."

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle...e7cb072bcfcf2a
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  #427  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2021, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Chicago to Toronto is 511 highway miles, a web site suggests around 12.5 hours to drive averaging around 41 mph. An Amtrak train is not going to make that trip much faster.
If Amtrak was willing to schedule a train every hour between departing from the originating station at 6 am and arriving at the terminating station by 10 pm, they would run trains at 6 am, 7 am, 8 am, and 9 am. That's four trains in one direction, or eight train for both directions.
If Amtrak could double the average speed of the train, they could double the number of trains. This is why speed matters.....
Am I mistaken or is VIA planning to implement corridor improvements here?

I know it's an on-again-off-again thing with past Ontario governments to do so...but I don't remember if there is some concrete program, currently, to begin making improvements?
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  #428  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2021, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
Am I mistaken or is VIA planning to implement corridor improvements here?

I know it's an on-again-off-again thing with past Ontario governments to do so...but I don't remember if there is some concrete program, currently, to begin making improvements?
There are currently no plans (to my knowledge) for Corridor improvements on Toronto - Windsor. The current plan is to improve service towards Quebec City, with no concrete plans for SW Ontario.

However, Metrolinx/GO began service to London in October, and many say that the route they use, which is a low-use freight railroad, could be purchased and upgraded.

Capacity-wise, the constraints are nearer Toronto, where CN and GO shares a three-track railroad through Brampton and there are no plans for widening; and (I would assume) at the international border.
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  #429  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2021, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DirectionNorth View Post
There are currently no plans (to my knowledge) for Corridor improvements on Toronto - Windsor. The current plan is to improve service towards Quebec City, with no concrete plans for SW Ontario.

However, Metrolinx/GO began service to London in October, and many say that the route they use, which is a low-use freight railroad, could be purchased and upgraded.

Capacity-wise, the constraints are nearer Toronto, where CN and GO shares a three-track railroad through Brampton and there are no plans for widening; and (I would assume) at the international border.
In the last federal election (September 2021), there was a promise to start studying rail improvements in Southwestern Ontario as an extension of the High Frequency Rail project currently planned between Toronto and Quebec City. Mind you, even the latter, is still only in the study phase, but a procurement process is supposed to start soon. I will believe it when I see it.
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  #430  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 5:06 AM
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Hudson Line Service Improvements:


Also proposed is a new Albany-Colonie Rail Station between the existing Schenectady and Albany-Rensselaer Stations.


Empire State Passengers Association
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  #431  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 8:30 AM
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Hudson Line Service Improvements:
Don't you love jpegs and gifs with improvement proposals that ignore how much it will cost? The costs can be found in the link below.

https://www.esparail.org/resources/h...line-projects/

"Harmon to Poughkeepsie Signal System
Cost: $142 million (Funded in 2021)

Empire Connection Double Track: from CP Inwood (MP 9) across the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge to CP 12 on Metro-North’s Hudson Line.
Cost: $62.5 million (Estimate in 2005 dollars)

Tarrytown Pocket Track
Cost: $47.6 million (Estimate in 2005 dollars)

New Third Mainline Track MP 53 to MP 63
Cost: $70.3 million (Estimate in 2005 dollars)

New Third Mainline Track MP 72 to MP 75
Cost: $6.5 million (Estimate in 2005 dollars)

Poughkeepsie Mainline and Yard Improvements
Cost: $39.7 million (Estimate in 2005 dollars)

Three New Control Points at MP 82, MP 99, and MP 136.
Cost: $26.5 million (Estimate in 2005 dollars)

Hudson Station Improvements
Cost: $6.6 million (Estimate in 2005 dollars)

Livingston Avenue Bridge
Cost: +$500.0 million (Estimate based on the Raritan River Bridge replacement project for NJ Transit)

Increase FRA Track Class MP 75 to MP 114
Cost: ?"

Subtotal for Hudson Line = $839.2 (+) Millions

Note, the costs are listed directly before the map used in the post above and many of the estimates go back as far as 2005. Why so long? Because that is how long this EIS study has taken - yes well over 17 years.....

Worse yet, after spending all this money for all the improvement projects for the Hudson Line, it is only going to save the trains 20 minutes of travel time, from 2 hours and 25 minutes to 2 hours and 5 minutes.

Last edited by electricron; Jan 1, 2022 at 8:42 AM.
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  #432  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Subtotal for Hudson Line = $839.2 (+) Millions

Note, the costs are listed directly before the map used in the post above and many of the estimates go back as far as 2005. Why so long? Because that is how long this EIS study has taken - yes well over 17 years.....

Worse yet, after spending all this money for all the improvement projects for the Hudson Line, it is only going to save the trains 20 minutes of travel time, from 2 hours and 25 minutes to 2 hours and 5 minutes.
I think you are forgetting the other advantage of the improvements beyond the speed, but the frequency of service that will dramatically improve. Current infrastructure allows 13 trains per day on the line, while the improvements to the track will allow it to increase to 24 trains.
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  #433  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 7:31 PM
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Additionally, presumably these investments will also benefit Metro North's Hudson line and all of the passengers who use that for their daily commutes.
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  #434  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
Additionally, presumably these investments will also benefit Metro North's Hudson line and all of the passengers who use that for their daily commutes.
Precisely ... the deconflicting of Amtrak and Metro North Trains is a huge benefit of these changes.

It would also make sending Hudson Line Metro North Trains to Penn Station and adding two upper Manhattan Metro North stations along the Amtrak lines even more feasible.

The Red New Haven Line Stations are already approved and are being prepared for construction, the two Green Hudson Line stations are still to be given final apporoval but, with those Hudson Line improvements, building the two new stations would be quite do-able.
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  #435  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 11:47 PM
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The U.S. spent more than $2.3 trillion for two decades of war in Afghanistan (far more if we include the costs of healthcare and disability payments for veterans who fought in Afghanistan) yet people are complaining about $839M for improvements that will benefit two passenger rail operators.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ed/5669656001/

Last edited by 202_Cyclist; Jan 2, 2022 at 10:44 AM.
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  #436  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2022, 9:14 AM
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One estimate found the Pentagon spent $14 trillion during our two decades in Afghanistan. It is simply laughable to see someone complain about spending $839M to make important investments in passenger rail.
$14 Trillion over 20 years calculates at an average of $700 Billion per year. So you are suggestion the entire Pentagon budget was spend in Afghanistan the last 20 years?
$14 Trillion paid to military contractors include factory workers, investors, transportation teamsters and stevedores, military trainers and instructors, housing contractors, and farmers feeding everyone - many of them your fellow citizens living in the \good old USA and not in Afghanistan. It is like a pig stye, once the pigs are let loose at the public feeding trough everyone gets dirty.

That $839 Million is the 2005 estimate for the costs to improve just one Amtrak rail corridor. Should we add the $2 Billion already spent on the Illinois Lincoln corridor, the $2 Billion already spent on the California Caltrain corridor, the $1 Billion spend on the Washington Cascades corridor, the $1 Billion spent on the Michigan Wolverine corridor, not to mention the over $10 Billion already spent on improving Amtrak's NEC and the additional $10 Billion yet to be spent on the new Hudson River tunnels the last 20 years?

Whether you think the costs of these projects is worth it or not, the costs are real, ignoring and sweeping them under the carpet is a disservice to any rational discussion of the merits of these projects.

And the US government can not continue to spend twice as much money as it collects in taxes forever. Take a few minutes , or hours to read
https://www.pgpf.org/the-current-federal-budget-deficit

Last edited by electricron; Jan 2, 2022 at 9:30 AM.
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  #437  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2022, 10:53 AM
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The federal government has spent $50 billion on Amtrak in the last 50 years and the 2009 Recovery Act had another $8 billion for high-speed rail. In the last half century, we have spent less than 10% on passenger rail compared to what the Pentagon spends in on year.
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  #438  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2022, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
$14 Trillion over 20 years calculates at an average of $700 Billion per year. So you are suggestion the entire Pentagon budget was spend in Afghanistan the last 20 years?
That $14 trillion number probably includes interest on debt, interest on debt taken to pay back debt, VA payments, and so on.
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
$14 Trillion paid to military contractors include factory workers, investors, transportation teamsters and stevedores, military trainers and instructors, housing contractors, and farmers feeding everyone - many of them your fellow citizens living in the \good old USA and not in Afghanistan. It is like a pig stye, once the pigs are let loose at the public feeding trough everyone gets dirty.
And infrastructure doesn't do that? After all, with Build American requirements, the materials used are also benefiting the US. I couldn't find a number, but a document says that the $30 billion in NE Corridor improvements will generate $8 billion every year.
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
That $839 Million is the 2005 estimate for the costs to improve just one Amtrak rail corridor. Should we add the $2 Billion already spent on the Illinois Lincoln corridor, the $2 Billion already spent on the California Caltrain corridor, the $1 Billion spend on the Washington Cascades corridor, the $1 Billion spent on the Michigan Wolverine corridor, not to mention the over $10 Billion already spent on improving Amtrak's NEC and the additional $10 Billion yet to be spent on the new Hudson River tunnels the last 20 years?
That's not even $30 billion dollars. Even conservative estimates have the cost of those wars at $2+ trillion dollars.
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Whether you think the costs of these projects is worth it or not, the costs are real, ignoring and sweeping them under the carpet is a disservice to any rational discussion of the merits of these projects.

And the US government can not continue to spend twice as much money as it collects in taxes forever. Take a few minutes , or hours to read
https://www.pgpf.org/the-current-federal-budget-deficit
I think that's kind of the point. Cutting the military budget and redirecting even 10% of that reduction to transit infrastructure annually could create wonders.
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  #439  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2022, 2:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
$14 Trillion over 20 years calculates at an average of $700 Billion per year. So you are suggestion the entire Pentagon budget was spend in Afghanistan the last 20 years?
$14 Trillion paid to military contractors include factory workers, investors, transportation teamsters and stevedores, military trainers and instructors, housing contractors, and farmers feeding everyone - many of them your fellow citizens living in the \good old USA and not in Afghanistan. It is like a pig stye, once the pigs are let loose at the public feeding trough everyone gets dirty.

That $839 Million is the 2005 estimate for the costs to improve just one Amtrak rail corridor. Should we add the $2 Billion already spent on the Illinois Lincoln corridor, the $2 Billion already spent on the California Caltrain corridor, the $1 Billion spend on the Washington Cascades corridor, the $1 Billion spent on the Michigan Wolverine corridor, not to mention the over $10 Billion already spent on improving Amtrak's NEC and the additional $10 Billion yet to be spent on the new Hudson River tunnels the last 20 years?

Whether you think the costs of these projects is worth it or not, the costs are real, ignoring and sweeping them under the carpet is a disservice to any rational discussion of the merits of these projects.

And the US government can not continue to spend twice as much money as it collects in taxes forever. Take a few minutes , or hours to read
https://www.pgpf.org/the-current-federal-budget-deficit
What do you hope to accomplish with these negative comments about improving our infrastructure in a forum thread specifically set up to discuss what needs to be done to improve our infrastructure?
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  #440  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2022, 3:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerDude View Post
What do you hope to accomplish with these negative comments about improving our infrastructure in a forum thread specifically set up to discuss what needs to be done to improve our infrastructure?
You could interpret it as support for the necessary expenditures because building and repairing the much needed infrastructure projects will support hundreds of thousands of jobs (similar to the ones s/he listed in his/her/their post), help decrease traffic on roads, help decrease air pollution, and help lead to innovation which will in turn provide many other benefits that are yet unknown. So I am thankful to electricron for pointing these things out and being supportive of them.

Here's to electricron!
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