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  #2081  
Old Posted May 14, 2009, 3:22 AM
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combusean combusean is offline
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The OP made an issue of splitting the two in half downtown and only considered the extensions to NW Phoenix and Mesa.

A south Phoenix line isn't on any agenda--those that are: take 3 routes that spur from downtown, the Capitol, Metro Center, and PV Mall lines and my guess is that the "Red Line" will as it always has connected Metrocenter and Mesa.

Re a Central Avenue line: who knows. They could involve numerous routes anyway they wanted, it all depends on commuting patterns.
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  #2082  
Old Posted May 14, 2009, 3:47 AM
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^Got it. Yeah, splitting the existing line doesn't make any sense as it is currently configured.

The fact that a line to South Phoenix isn't even in long range planning at the moment is staggering to me. Run it down Central to Baseline, turn east and at least run it to South Mountain CC. I'd love to see that line run all the way from there up to Central and Hatcher to service Sunnyslope and John C. Lincoln hospital. Then again, it might make more sense to run a central line on 7th Street north of Camelback and then up toward Dreamy Draw.

I don't know...my basic point is that Central should be the spine. All the future lines should converge in some capacity along Central somewhere between Buckeye Road and Camelback. Kind of the way that BART works in SF. An I-10 to Airport to Tempe-Mesa line could serve as a crosstown line.

Maybe I just think too big.

Sean, didn't you have a really cool map you did of what you felt should be future lines? Can you post it again?
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  #2083  
Old Posted May 14, 2009, 10:10 AM
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A specific line isn't planned down S Central Avenue and E/W Baseline Rd,

but those two roads are, along with easily 100 other miles, "eligible high capacity transit corridors"



from pdf page 120 of http://www.mag.maricopa.gov/detail.cms?item=7091

BRT, commuter rail, and LRT extentions are all the same dashed-blue color on this map but the
specific mode per corridor is pretty clear except around 48th St/I-10

BRT/LRT on the freeways, commuter rail on freight tracks, and LRT extending from where it is now.

given that there's no funding source for these corridors I don't really consider them because I'll be 90 years old by the time they're done.
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  #2084  
Old Posted May 14, 2009, 8:38 PM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
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Last night on my way to the airport I saw a 4 car train at the 44th and Washington station. Has anybody else see one of these guys?

I also got stopped by police at the airport and was lucky enough to see the Presidential motorcade enter the airport and Air Force One take off. The size of his motorcade was massive. Must have been at least 30 vehicles including 3 SWAT trucks.
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  #2085  
Old Posted May 14, 2009, 10:57 PM
digital phoenix digital phoenix is offline
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I was under the impression that 4-car trains were too big for both station platforms and downtown phoenix city blocks. Are you sure the train was carrying people or on its way to the service yard?
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  #2086  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 5:36 AM
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I don't know about the downtown blocks, but 4 car trains are definitely too big for the platforms. On every platform I've had the chance to compare, they're pretty much the same length as 3 full cars from bumper to bumper
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  #2087  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 9:03 AM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digital phoenix View Post
I was under the impression that 4-car trains were too big for both station platforms and downtown phoenix city blocks. Are you sure the train was carrying people or on its way to the service yard?
Yes, there were people in the train. It was letting people on and off at the station. I was under the impression 4 car tains were too long as well. I can't say for sure if there were people in the last train, I was too shocked at the 4 car to actually look into it.
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  #2088  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempe_Duck View Post
Yes, there were people in the train. It was letting people on and off at the station. I was under the impression 4 car tains were too long as well. I can't say for sure if there were people in the last train, I was too shocked at the 4 car to actually look into it.
I am fairly confident that there is no such thing as a four car train. It is possible to see the articulation and get confused when counting cars.
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  #2089  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 5:50 PM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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i saw a 16 car train the other day are you guys calling me a liar?
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  #2090  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 5:58 PM
Tempe_Duck Tempe_Duck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbenjamin View Post
I am fairly confident that there is no such thing as a four car train. It is possible to see the articulation and get confused when counting cars.
I know what a train car looks like. It wasn't the articulation. There were 4 cars, I counted them 2 or 3 times, because I was so shocked.
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  #2091  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 6:25 PM
glynnjamin glynnjamin is offline
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You know, my mother works on Central & Palm and she called and asked me "What are the 4-car trains for?" and I said...There are no 4-car trains because the stations aren't long enough and 4 car trains would be longer than a E/W city block in downtown Phx so it wouldn't work. She's like 63 and gets a little crazy sometimes so I didn't bother to bring it up...

But apparently someone else saw it. Not saying it is true but offering another account of what Tempe Duck saw.
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  #2092  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 9:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempe_Duck View Post
Last night on my way to the airport I saw a 4 car train at the 44th and Washington station. Has anybody else see one of these guys?
I've seen 6 car trains lined up on Washington near the spur, but this only happens after they've shut down for the night.

Given the traffic after the graduation ceremony last Wednesday in Tempe, they may have been running 4-car trains out to some of the Park & Ride stations.
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  #2093  
Old Posted May 15, 2009, 10:58 PM
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I will believe in four car trains when I see one.
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  #2094  
Old Posted May 16, 2009, 6:38 AM
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yes, the trains and platforms were packed before and esp. after ASU's graduation Wed. nite.
it was very encouraging to see all the folks using/trying transit.
i do wish they would have left the tempe transp. center station open however.

glynnjamin - i think you owe your mother an apology!
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  #2095  
Old Posted May 17, 2009, 10:42 PM
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Not really news/development, but its nice to see the Republic talking about architecture and doing it through the lents of the rail:

http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/...trail0517.html
Quote:
New rail, new view of architecture
From Metro, Valley takes on a different look
1 comment by Richard Nilsen - May. 15, 2009 01:08 AM
The Arizona Republic
The best way to take the architectural pulse of the city is to slice it crosswise, open it up and peek inside.

Light rail architecture tour
Public art along the light rail

Buildings to watch for along the rail
There's a lot to see riding the light rail from end to end. Paying attention is the main thing. Look at everything you can and pick your most and least favorites.
Here are five buildings to watch for, one from each of the five legs of the light-rail route:

• 19th Avenue leg - Arizona Federal Credit Union, 5151 N. 19th Ave., Phoenix. A circular, upside-down pyramid, it's one of three upside-down pyramids in the Valley. Such buildings shade themselves.

• Central Corridor - Phoenix Financial Center, 3443 N. Central Ave. This is the noted "Punch-Card Building," which has two circular satellite buildings at its foot. It's one of the most distinctive buildings in the Valley.

• Washington Street leg - Auto repair shop, 1514 E. Washington St., Phoenix. This tiny shop has been painted with a blue front, a yellow frieze that reads "Full Auto Repair" and sunrise rays at the peak.

• Tempe leg - Convenience store, 1148 S. Terrace Road, Tempe. This relic of the past is one of the few remaining stores of the original 1950s design for the first Circle Ks in Arizona.

• Mesa leg - Watson's Flowers, 2425 E. Apache Blvd., Tempe. This simple Art Deco building, with its wonderful glass-block windows and curved facade, is a simple but elegant remainder from the Valley's architectural past.
- Richard Nilsen

And the best way to do that is to ride the light rail from end to end. It's a Gray Line tour, without the annoying tour guide.

It's a chance to see your city again for the first time. You sit in your seat and gawk out the window as the city passes, too fast to focus on a single building for long but perfect to soak in a general impression of the city.

For what makes up a city is the aggregate, not the individual buildings. Too often, when we write or talk about architecture, we look at an isolated building here or there, as if they were works of art in frames, separately considered, with no relation to what surrounds it.

But that isn't how we actually experience architecture. Instead, we live in it, walk through it, breathe its air-conditioning, seek its shade. We move from one building to the next, drive to a third and work in a fourth. The architecture is as much a part of our daily lives as air.

Even great cities, such as New York and Paris, are more memorable for their mix than for any great masterpieces.

And it isn't just the buildings: It's the sum total of all the human-made environment, from office towers to street signs. And on the light rail, you get something very like a World's Fair Futurama ride through the bricks and mortar of the city.

Get on anywhere. For $2.50, you can ride all day. The ride from end to end and back should take you about 2 1/2 hours. Early morning or late afternoon are the best times, when the sun isn't directly overhead blasting the world into a visual flatness.

Two things stand out: One is how ugly most of the human landscape is; the other is how much better the architecture is getting. There is a renaissance of design, from corporate towers to trendy condos.

So, what will you see? First of all, a lot of stucco.

If there is a city signature, it is writ in stucco. It's the bland goo that is the cake frosting of the Valley. It's the universal of building construction, as ubiquitous as logs were on the frontier or sandstone in Paris. It's cheap, it's easy and it's boring. Seeing so much stucco in one gulp will give you aesthetic indigestion. Bring a bromo.

As you ride along this arbitrary zipper line through the heart of Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa, you notice how poorly most of the buildings are designed. Whether they're cheesy remnants of a negligent past or the heedless constructions of the present, they are blotches along the road rather than garlands.

Of course, any city looked at with a cold eye will show you the same: dusty, trashy, empty lots surrounded by chain-link fences, next to old storefronts repainted and hand-lettered by amateurs, covered in magic-marker sale signs. Sidewalks with no plantings, powerlines strangling the sky.

The unconsidered corners of the urban experience, waiting for someone to notice and make use of them, or forgotten remnants of architecture past, left to wrack and ruin.

But there are two primary ways of failing. Neglect is one, but the other is more pernicious: bad design.

First there's overt bad design - that is, architects who have had a bad idea or plain bad taste - and second, there are those buildings with no design at all, created from templates or thrown together quickly by low-bid builders.

The second is more common: As you pass pharmacies, schools, condos, Starbucks, auto-repair shops, churches, you realize that the real enemy of good architecture is not so much badly designed buildings as un-designed buildings.

Some of those are merely banal: the McDonalds and shopping malls.

Our city is killing us with banality. I hear from readers who hate the new Henkel building in Scottsdale or have never liked ASU Gammage in Tempe, but I can't fathom why they build up such hatred, when all around are the soul-draining sameness of mini malls, gas stations and KFCs.

Landscapes along route


The Metro route traverses five distinct kinds of urban landscape. From the north, along 19th Avenue, you see 50-year-old tract housing, those cookie-cutter homes that recall the conformist 1950s of gray-flannel suits and Levittown American dreams gone to seed.
Farther south, along Central Avenue, the train passes the corporate heart of the Valley, with its two-hearted downtown, the upper rank of corporate towers from Indian School to Thomas roads and the older downtown clustered from Jefferson to Van Buren streets. The oldest notable building is the Luhrs Tower, from 1929 - built just before the stock-market crash - and the still-unfinished One Central Park East - begun before the current crash.

As the rails run east along Jefferson and Washington streets, from Phoenix to Tempe, the way is marked by cairns of gravel, for-lease signs, empty warehouses and vacant lots, interrupted occasionally by chain hotels and punctuated by Tovrea Castle and the Castle Megastore adult shop.

Fourth is Tempe, the college town, starting at the Mill Avenue Bridge and passing Sun Devil Stadium and a host of downtown shops and student housing.

Finally, from Tempe to Mesa, you find an endless run of mini malls and apartment complexes. It tends to be neat but unmemorable. It is the bland center of the Valley, with only sad reminders of the many old U.S. 60 motels, turned into residences with kitchenette signs out front.

View getting better?


Yet, along the whole length of the trip, there are indications that things are changing. There are new corporate buildings with an eye to design. They may not be great architecture, but they're at least thoughtful, with some attention paid to the exterior.
There is the First Solar building at Washington Street and Mill Avenue, Tempe's Hayden Ferry Lakeside, with its two football-shaped office towers, and One Central Park East in downtown Phoenix - all of them new office space that is more interesting.

And there arecondos and apartments springing up, like the Artisan Parkview on Washington and Seventh streets, the Lofts at Rio Salado on Washington and between Center Parkway and Priest Drive, and the Metro Manor on 19th Avenue and Colter Street - all of them intended to attract tenants or owners based on interesting design and a desire for urban living.

It isn't only the shiny new buildings. Even some of the older structures have been retro-fit, as it were, to make them more interesting.

The enemy is not bad taste, but blandness. A certain quotient of bad taste is necessary for a lively city.

So, while we applaud the renaissance in high-end architecture in the Valley, we have to notice that the light rail passes its share of brightly colored vernacular architecture, like the auto-repair shop at Washington and 15th streets, or the bright-red tattoo parlor at Camelback Road and 15th Avenue.

The desire for an interesting environment comes from the bottom up as well as the top down.

This rebirth of architectural interest can probably be dated to the construction in 1995 of the Burton Barr Central Library, designed by local architect Will Bruder. Since then, we've had our share of other new buildings by a handful of other local architects and a few imports from elsewhere. There isn't room to name them all: Eddie Jones and John Chonka, even those working for large architectural firms, who produce most of the big buildings. Then there was Antone Predock's plans for ASU's Nelson Fine Arts Center and the Arizona Science Center, or Richard Meier's fatally flawed but ambitious design for the Sandra Day O'Connor Federal Courthouse.

The battle is not won. We still have our portion of bad design, even among the new.

Just when you feel good about the pleasant stone and glass exterior of the new Phoenix Convention Center, you have to notice that the new downtown Sheraton is a Gumby-headed tombstone. Some buildings are designed by creative architects; others by engineers. The Sheraton looks like it was designed by accountants. Even its color scheme is bad: the dusty liver and tan were the same colors J.C. Penney sold in towels and tablecloths in the mid-1980s. It's not old enough to be retro yet, merely boring.

And not every new condo escapes the slather of generic stucco.

But cities are never done. They just keep changing. A city is a process, not a thing.

But the desire to live and work in a built environment that is interesting is a sign of civic and urban awareness.

And the view from the tram is looking up.

Quote:
Buildings to watch for along the rail
There's a lot to see riding the light rail from end to end. Paying attention is the main thing. Look at everything you can and pick your most and least favorites.
Here are five buildings to watch for, one from each of the five legs of the light-rail route:

• 19th Avenue leg - Arizona Federal Credit Union, 5151 N. 19th Ave., Phoenix. A circular, upside-down pyramid, it's one of three upside-down pyramids in the Valley. Such buildings shade themselves.

• Central Corridor - Phoenix Financial Center, 3443 N. Central Ave. This is the noted "Punch-Card Building," which has two circular satellite buildings at its foot. It's one of the most distinctive buildings in the Valley.

• Washington Street leg - Auto repair shop, 1514 E. Washington St., Phoenix. This tiny shop has been painted with a blue front, a yellow frieze that reads "Full Auto Repair" and sunrise rays at the peak.

• Tempe leg - Convenience store, 1148 S. Terrace Road, Tempe. This relic of the past is one of the few remaining stores of the original 1950s design for the first Circle Ks in Arizona.

• Mesa leg - Watson's Flowers, 2425 E. Apache Blvd., Tempe. This simple Art Deco building, with its wonderful glass-block windows and curved facade, is a simple but elegant remainder from the Valley's architectural past.
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  #2096  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 5:26 PM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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Metro light rail hits million mark in April
Phoenix Business Journal

Metro light rail topped the million mark for passengers in April and increased its average daily ridership.

Metro tallied 1.04 million boardings in April, up nearly 7 percent from a previous record of 972,962 boardings in March.

Metro had an average weekday ridership of 37,386 in April, average Saturday ridership of 32,720 and average Sunday and holiday ridership of 22,694. The average weekday ridership in March was 34,376, average Saturday ridership was 28,537, and average Sunday and holiday ridership was 20,508.

To celebrate topping the 1 million-rider mark, Metro is launching One in One Million. The contest calls for riders to share positive experiences on a Metro train or in a station area. The stories will be posted online in June. The winner will receive 30 all-day transit passes, a gift bag and behind-the-scenes access to the light-rail system.

For more: www.metrolightrail.org/onemillion.
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  #2097  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
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Council to vote Monday on light-rail future in Mesa
by Gary Nelson
May. 15, 2009 12:32 PM
The Arizona Republic
Quote:
It's probably a foregone conclusion, but that doesn't diminish the import of Monday night's City Council vote on the future of Mesa's light rail line.

The expected vote is yes - so much so that the first draft of the council's agenda included light rail among numerous far more routine items to be decided on a single motion, without debate.

It's not going to be quite that open and shut, however; Mayor Scott Smith said Thursday the public will have its say.

The meeting begins at 5:45 p.m. at 57 E. First St.

When transit officials laid out the proposal in a public forum last month, several people raised objections. Some didn't like the planned route, and others were worried that construction would strangle businesses along the line.

Assuming the council sticks with the proposal on the table, the vote will mean:

* Extending light rail from the Sycamore station along Main Street to roughly Mesa Drive, radically altering the character and appearance of Mesa's downtown. Anticipated completion: 2015 - although there is talk of pushing that back a year because of regional transit budget problems.
* As soon as possible thereafter, extending the line down Main Street to Gilbert Road, which transit officials think is a much more logical end-of-the-line than Mesa Drive. The big hangup on that is money; the regional transportation plan provides no funding beyond the downtown terminus.
* Assuming an extension to Gilbert Road, a future City Council would decide whether light rail will eventually reach Mesa's economically vital Gateway area and, if so, by what route.

Regional transit officials, with public input, spent two years studying how to extend "high-capacity" mass transit through central Mesa before announcing their recommendation in March.

They looked at buses and decided trains were cheaper in the long run because they're more durable.

They also looked at running the line along either First Street or First Avenue through downtown. Main Street, they decided, would cost less money, produce a faster ride and attract more passengers.

The projected cost: $182 million if Main Street is configured for two lanes of traffic. If planners opt for four traffic lanes, construction will cost another $2 million.

Planners expect the federal government to cover 53 percent of the project and a county transportation sales tax the rest.

In addition to the resolution authorizing the light rail extension, the council also will vote Monday to create an advisory group, including affected property and business owners, to develop design guidelines and to help businesses survive construction.
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  #2098  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 6:57 PM
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I got a response from Valley Metro regarding that bus pull out/shelter on Thomas that I've been complaining about (in case anyone cares). Apparently there have been some legal issues going on with the land owner just south of the bus shelter (a pay-to-park lot) that's why it hasn't been put into use yet. So stupid.

Last edited by PHX31; May 18, 2009 at 7:46 PM.
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  #2099  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 7:00 PM
glynnjamin glynnjamin is offline
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So refresh my memory, is the lot south of the current stop or the one you want them to move to?
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  #2100  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 7:25 PM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHX31 View Post
I got a response from Valley Metro regarding that bus pull out/shelter on Thomas that I've been complaining about (in case anyone cares). Apparently there have been some legal issues going on with the land owner just south of the bus shelter (a pay-to-park lot) that's why it hasn't been but into use yet. So stupid.
I would explain to the land owners that they may fuck themselves.
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