Detached Townhomes & What Houston Is Doing RIght

[mhays]

I'm looking up Houston's code. Yes there are parking minimums.

This 2019 article talks about 1.66 spaces per two-bedroom apartment everywhere except Downtown and a couple core districts where requirements were eliminated that year. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/07/...-requirements/

I'll see if I can dig up more.

PS, holy shi*! 1.66 per TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT! How many single moms with a kid have to subsidize spaces they don't use?!

[mhays]

Houston might not have zoning, but it does have a general land use code! And wow is it backward.

Single-family requires 2.0 spaces per unit. That appears to apply to these townhouses.

Apartments require 1.250 per efficiency unit, 1.333 per one-bedroom, 1.666 per two-bedroom, 2.0 per three-bedroom.

Not including those very core districts.

I'll say it again -- give some opportunity and people will take advantage.

Here's one clue I'll leave for the locals. How many middle-cost buildings build MORE than required? If they're all right at the minimum it stands to reason that most want to do fewer.

https://library.municode.com/tx/hous...-492PASPCETYOC

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by mhays

Houston might not have zoning, but it does have a general land use code! And wow is it backward.

Single-family requires 2.0 spaces per unit. That appears to apply to these townhouses.

Apartments require 1.250 per efficiency unit, 1.333 per one-bedroom, 1.666 per two-bedroom, 2.0 per three-bedroom.

Not including those very core districts.

I'll say it again -- give some opportunity and people will take advantage.

Here's one clue I'll leave for the locals. How many middle-cost buildings build MORE than required? If they're all right at the minimum it stands to reason that most want to do fewer.

https://library.municode.com/tx/hous...-492PASPCETYOC

It’s almost like it’s a Sun Belt city.

No zoning allows for things to be rapidly replaced but the ordinances requires it to overbuild parking.

Complete streets and better drainage is the main issue for the folks that actually live there.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mhays

I'm looking up Houston's code. Yes there are parking minimums.

This 2019 article talks about 1.66 spaces per two-bedroom apartment everywhere except Downtown and a couple core districts where requirements were eliminated that year. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/07/...-requirements/

I'll see if I can dig up more.

PS, holy shi*! 1.66 per TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT! How many single moms with a kid have to subsidize spaces they don't use?!

Houston's parking requirements are long overdue for an overhaul but a lot of newer 2 bedroom apartments are couples/ roommates with two cars. A single mom may only need one space but after she moves out, a pair of roommates or couple might move in and these areas tend to be very car oriented already.

[mhays]

Jmanc, some people don't live in a suburban fashion, even in Houston.

There should be a choice. Surely even you can agree with that.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mhays

Jmanc, some people don't live in a suburban fashion, even in Houston.

There should be a choice. Surely even you can agree with that.

I agree 100% but the vast majority of Houston is suburban by most metrics. I don't dispute that there is a desire for more traditionally urban lifestyles here but probably not enough (yet) for a trail blazing developer to challenge the status quo (i.e. the city) and then undertake such a project. There are numerous developments going up and many of them are pretty well done as far as land use but still with the car taken into consideration.

At this point, I would just like to see more street level retail incorporated into new development rather than just a parking podium. Or a surface lot.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by mhays

Houston might not have zoning, but it does have a general land use code! And wow is it backward.

Single-family requires 2.0 spaces per unit. That appears to apply to these townhouses.

https://library.municode.com/tx/hous...-492PASPCETYOC

Interestingly, it doesn't seem to have to be a garage, just off street parking. In the case of the townhouses, it could just be a wide enough driveway...which, of course, would not solve the problem and would actually make it worse.

I'm guessing (as i usually do) that similar land use regulations are to blame for all the snout houses in the suburbs of Toronto and elsewhere.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by mhays

Jmanc, some people don't live in a suburban fashion, even in Houston.

There should be a choice. Surely even you can agree with that.

I don't understand....

Some people live in an apartment or condo next to light rail (one of the districts that has waived parking requirement) because they work downtown, at the medical center, or UH. When you add in on demand delivery, all of sudden a houston downtown condo has decent grocery service.

Building a detached townhouse in an urban style is possible in one of those core districts but just not really feasible or really desirable. The areas where you could build would have crap infrastructure and the areas with good infrastructure oppose relaxing the parking requirements because it leads to more on street parking. Houston has its own NIMBYs.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by JManc

I agree 100% but the vast majority of Houston is suburban by most metrics. I don't dispute that there is a desire for more traditionally urban lifestyles here but probably not enough (yet) for a trail blazing developer to challenge the status quo (i.e. the city) and then undertake such a project. There are numerous developments going up and many of them are pretty well done as far as land use but still with the car taken into consideration.

The problem is that to even do so, builders would have to challenge the City for the ability to provide less parking in the first. Chances are, that it's easier for them to just comply and build the required parking spaces than to pour money into launching an appeal against the zoning bylaws.

The better solution would be to just let the free market take its course (in a city & state that are otherwise supposedly big fans of the free market...), and let developers build fewer or no parking spaces if that's what the market supports.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

The problem is that to even do so, builders would have to challenge the City for the ability to provide less parking. Chances are, that it's easier to just comply and build the required parking spaces.

The better solution would be to just let the free market take its course (in a city & state that are supposedly pro-free market), and let developers build fewer or no parking spaces if the market actually supports it.

Agreed. But NIMBYs are powerful even in a more libertarian city like Houston. Central Houston is made up of super neighborhoods and the ones with the best infrastructure and bones don't want a bunch of growth (aka townhouses springing up everywhere).

[mhays]

Some developers would jump at the opportunity to build a single space per townhouse.

This isn't a question, except in the SSP world.

Some developers rely on group-think. Others try to outdo each other and find new angles. They go for subsectors of the market. This is a very obvious, proven subsector based on other cities.

I'm not suggesting zero spaces. Every unit would have a space. That's urban-lite at most. Lots of cities do this.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by mhays

I'm not suggesting zero spaces. Every unit would have a space. That's urban-lite at most. Lots of cities do this.

There is something that is going to make it harder to get Houstonians, and Texans in general, out of our cars: The miserable climate. Specifically summer.

We Texans are not quite as rugged as many here like to claim. One of the reasons we love our cars is that they provide movable climate-controlled bubbles to take us from our climate-controlled homes to our climate-controlled destinations. What exacerbates the problems of replacing those cars is the fact that our cities have developed around the ease of traveling longer distances, so that if we were to choose public transit instead of cars, we generally have farther to walk to get to that transit than people in older cities have. We can't walk 3 blocks and duck into a subway and out of the elements like many can in older cities. We have to walk farther to then wait outside in the heat (or torrential rain) for the transit.

I'm not saying this is insurmountable, but a lot has to be done...and spent...to create neighborhoods where the miserable climate is less of an issue. More transit to create shorter distances. More density to create shorter distances. And infrastructure to MAKE WALKING LESS MISERABLE! If not actually pleasant. Some of that is happening now, actually.

People often like to point out that there was a time when Texans were not so dependent on cars...and even had no air conditioning in there homes. I like to point out in return that the population then was minuscule compared to now. I truly believe A/C is what made Texas viable for so many people.

Again, none of this is insurmountable, but the alternatives to automobile transport are going to have to be VERY attractive, comfortable and easy if people are going to trade what they have now. And none of this will happen quickly.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mhays

Some developers would jump at the opportunity to build a single space per townhouse.

Absolutely. IF there is a strong enough market demand for them. I just don't see it here apart from a select few areas inside the loop and even then it's pretty limited. A large-ish townhouse anywhere in Houston is going to warrant at least a two car garage if it's going to be a attractive to a broader range of buyers.

[benp]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

There is something that is going to make it harder to get Houstonians, and Texans in general, out of our cars: The miserable climate. Specifically summer.

We Texans are not quite as rugged as many here like to claim. One of the reasons we love our cars is that they provide movable climate-controlled bubbles to take us from our climate-controlled homes to our climate-controlled destinations. What exacerbates the problems of replacing those cars is the fact that our cities have developed around the ease of traveling longer distances, so that if we were to choose public transit instead of cars, we generally have farther to walk to get to that transit than people in older cities have. We can't walk 3 blocks and duck into a subway and out of the elements like many can in older cities. We have to walk farther to then wait outside in the heat (or torrential rain) for the transit.

I'm not saying this is insurmountable, but a lot has to be done...and spent...to create neighborhoods where the miserable climate is less of an issue. More transit to create shorter distances. More density to create shorter distances. And infrastructure to MAKE WALKING LESS MISERABLE! If not actually pleasant. Some of that is happening now, actually.

People often like to point out that there was a time when Texans were not so dependent on cars...and even had no air conditioning in there homes. I like to point out in return that the population then was minuscule compared to now. I truly believe A/C is what made Texas viable for so many people.

Again, none of this is insurmountable, but the alternatives to automobile transport are going to have to be VERY attractive, comfortable and easy if people are going to trade what they have now. And none of this will happen quickly.

Walkability in most cities generally means walkable within less than a mile from your starting location, typically from your home. The weather is not the issue in Houston, it is the lack of dense walkable areas.

In Houston, you still have to walk to your car in the heat. Most people's cars are baking in the sun, and are 20+ degrees hotter on the inside than the air temperature. Then, depending on your car, it may take several minutes to cool the vehicle interior down to the point where it is comfortable - based on my mid summer experience, it could take 2 or 3 miles (at least) on the road for the a/c to catch up, as mine did poorly when the car was in idle. Then, depending on your destination, you still have to walk through the heat to get to the typically over-cooled building you are headed to.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by JManc

Absolutely. IF there is a strong enough market demand for them. I just don't see it here apart from a select few areas inside the loop and even then it's pretty limited. A large-ish townhouse anywhere in Houston is going to warrant at least a two car garage if it's going to be a attractive to a broader range of buyers.

This. The areas with the best transit (alongside light rail connected to two large employment center) have already eliminated parking requirements. People who want the "urban" car-less lifestyle would have bought a condo or rent an apartment.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by benp

Walkability in most cities generally means walkable within less than a mile from your starting location, typically from your home. The weather is not the issue in Houston, it is the lack of dense walkable areas.

In Houston, you still have to walk to your car in the heat. Most people's cars are baking in the sun, and are 20+ degrees hotter on the inside than the air temperature. Then, depending on your car, it may take several minutes to cool the vehicle interior down to the point where it is comfortable - based on my mid summer experience, it could take 2 or 3 miles (at least) on the road for the a/c to catch up, as mine did poorly when the car was in idle. Then, depending on your destination, you still have to walk through the heat to get to the typically over-cooled building you are headed to.

I've done the walkability in Montrose so I'll just have to disagree with you. It has a decent street grid that is very walkable or bikable. I had bars/restaurants and a CVS within 2 blocks and an HEB grocery store ~1/4 mile or a short bike trip.

I just did the walkability thing in northern montrose with some buddies where we had a Whole Foods, several restaurants, and several bars within walking distance of his townhome. It really isn't very pleasant walking in jeans and a nice shirt for more than a several blocks.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by JManc

Houston's parking requirements are long overdue for an overhaul but a lot of newer 2 bedroom apartments are couples/ roommates with two cars. A single mom may only need one space but after she moves out, a pair of roommates or couple might move in and these areas tend to be very car oriented already.

That's basically what happened in Los Angeles and is what will happen in other new(ish) cities as they mature. Remember LA was once a newish boom city 70 years ago. Look at street view images of LA and there are cars in every possible place because you have numerous drivers per dwelling unit. Urban planners saw what happened in LA and got ahead of the curve by mandated enough parking for the evolution of the city to accommodate.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Camelback

That's basically what happened in Los Angeles and is what will happen in other new(ish) cities as they mature. Remember LA was once a newish boom city 70 years ago. Look at street view images of LA and there are cars in every possible place because you have numerous drivers per dwelling unit. Urban planners saw what happened in LA and got ahead of the curve by mandated enough parking for the evolution of the city to accommodate.

It's essentially the complaint of the Houston streetcar suburbs that survived the purge and bust.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by benp

Walkability in most cities generally means walkable within less than a mile from your starting location, typically from your home. The weather is not the issue in Houston, it is the lack of dense walkable areas.

In Houston, you still have to walk to your car in the heat. Most people's cars are baking in the sun, and are 20+ degrees hotter on the inside than the air temperature. Then, depending on your car, it may take several minutes to cool the vehicle interior down to the point where it is comfortable - based on my mid summer experience, it could take 2 or 3 miles (at least) on the road for the a/c to catch up, as mine did poorly when the car was in idle. Then, depending on your destination, you still have to walk through the heat to get to the typically over-cooled building you are headed to.

I've lived in Texas over 60 years (which means I remember when hot car interiors were even worse...*metal* seat belt buckles and scorching steering wheels). Most of those six decades were in or near Houston. Weather absolutely is part of, if not most of, it. Your point about Houston's lack of dense walkable areas is exactly what I said in my post. Those walks better be shorter and more pleasant if people are going to get out of their cars. As for the hot car problem, so much of this discussion has been about garages. Cars don't get hot in garages.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

It really isn't very pleasant walking in jeans and a nice shirt for more than a several blocks.

I hate to admit it, but late spring and summer mornings and evenings in San Antonio are SOOOOOO much better than in Houston. The rest of the day is KILLER, though.