German culture in America

[Docere]

German ancestry is the most common reported ancestry in the US* but there's little display of it. They've long been seen as pretty much "middle American" (it doesn't hurt they're heavily concentrated in the Midwest too, where "average" or "middle America" is defined).

For instance, German is the most commonly reported ancestry in the Chicago area. But the Irish and Poles are more visible. German isn't included under the "white ethnic" banner, you don't hear about the "German vote" etc. They're basically generic white Americans (or maybe they've intermarried with Irish and Poles and if they display an ethnic identity/pride they'll emphasize the Irish or Polish side, not German).

The group of course was already split between Protestants and Catholics, and two world wars obviously made overt displays of German pride unpalatable.

Is there any visible display of German culture or identity in America today? There's nothing resembling a "German neighborhood" AFAIK (besides historic ones). Maybe a bit in cities like Milwaukee or Cincinnati or a few German settlements in the Midwest? Or cultural clubs maintained by older postwar immigrants?

* Though there's probably more English if you add the "American" responses and certainly if you include the Scots, Scots-Irish, Irish Protestants and Welsh there's more British than German heritage in the US.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Docere

German ancestry is the most common reported ancestry in the US* but there's little display of it. They've long been seen as pretty much "middle American" (it doesn't hurt they're heavily concentrated in the Midwest too, where "average" or "middle America" is defined).

For instance, German is the most commonly reported ancestry in the Chicago area. But the Irish and Poles are more visible. German isn't included under the "white ethnic" banner, you don't hear about the "German vote" etc. They're basically generic white Americans (or maybe they've intermarried with Irish and Poles and if they display an ethnic identity/pride they'll emphasize the Irish or Polish side, not German).

The group of course was already split between Protestants and Catholics, and two world wars obviously made overt displays of German pride unpalatable.

Is there any visible display of German culture or identity in America today? There's nothing resembling a "German neighborhood" AFAIK (besides historic ones). Maybe a bit in cities like Milwaukee or Cincinnati or a few German settlements in the Midwest? Or cultural clubs maintained by older postwar immigrants?

* Though there's probably more English if you add the "American" responses and certainly if you include the Scots, Scots-Irish, Irish Protestants and Welsh there's more British than German heritage in the US.

Milwaukee, Cincinnati, the Texas Hill Country (in and around Austin and San Antonio), and the Pennsylvania Dutchcountry all continue proud German heritage and cultural traditions. The latter two (and much more the last) still have pockets of people who speak a German language derived from dialect leveling from a rich tapestry of various German immigrants as well as hefty amounts of English (and Spanish, in the case of Texasdeutsh) load words.

Texasdeutsch is a legit language that was, at its height, spoken by the majority of people throughout the Hill Country and over 100,000 people. Currently, 4-6k speakers remain, mostly in Fredericksburg and New Braunfels.

[TempleGuy1000]

Pennsylvania Dutch

[Docere]

I guess I should have excluded the (obvious) Pennsylvania Dutch and separate religious communities in OP.

Interestingly, Pennsylvania has more people of German ancestry than any state, edging out California and ahead of Texas and New York.

Pennsylvania and the Midwest is definitely the German American heartland. While I'm skeptical of claims that there's more German than British ancestry in America, this area is plurality-German ancestry.

[photoLith]

My moms family is of German descent and all live in the Texas Hill Country. My grandma is mamaw and great grandma was Memaw. We still have 600 acres of the original farm that my great great great grandparents bought in the 1860s after they moved from Germany and we have cattle on it still in Spicewood. My parents now live in New Braunfels which has loads of German history and German restaurants.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by photoLith

My moms family is of German descent and all live in the Texas Hill Country. My grandma is mamaw and great grandma was Memaw. We still have 600 acres of the original farm that my great great great grandparents bought in the 1860s after they moved from Germany and we have cattle on it still in Spicewood. My parents now live in New Braunfels which has loads of German history and German restaurants.

Yeah, many people do not realize the deep German history of Texas. Even the oldest restaurant in San Antonio is a German restaurant (Shilo’s), and looks over the riverwalk at the street level. Schlotzsky’s and Thundercloud are Austin’s best fast food chains, and both are (technically) German ethnic food that has been mainstreamed. San Antonio’s icehauses were German and Tejano gathering places, and were a local spin on biergartens (which are prevalent everywhere in the Hill County). Austin’s bar scene and built environment is heavily influenced by both the biergarten concept and German architecture generally, as is San Antonio’s. Tejano music is literally a cross between German and Spanish using traditional German instruments and Mexican Spanish rhythms and cadences.

Once you know its there, you can see it everywhere. German immigration really left its mark in Texas.

[craigs]

Most German immigration to the US occurred before the two world wars, and the stigma flowing from the US fighting against Germany in those decades is the primary reason that most of today's descendants of German-Americans have little to no German cultural or historical identity. I suspect that is what happened with the German side of my family as well. My German ancestors' tale is a story none of them wanted to pass along, apparently. We don't know much about them or where they came from, except that they came to the US around 1850 and lived in the Midwest before settling in New England.

Contrast that with my Mom's side of the family. Her father was the only one in his large family to be born in the US--the rest of them were born in England. We can trace that family tree back several hundred years. Not only were we all raised with an understanding of our English history and culture, but we also grew up knowing relatives who still lived there. Not coincidentally, there was never a stigma against English identity and culture in the modern US like there was for German-Americans.

[dave8721]

My fathers side is of German ancestry but has 0 German culture. I assume that since German migration happened en masse around the turn of the 19th to 20th centuries and basically ended at that point so there were few fresh immigrants to keep the culture alive. Especially with wars with the US pitted against Germany in WW1 and WW2, German US identity pretty much died off.

[xzmattzx]

There's tons of German heritage in Pennsylvania in Dutch Country. But it's really Pennsylvania Dutch heritage instead of European German heritage. It's not like Irish heritage where you see Irish flags flying from rowhouses, and St. Patrick's stuff, and so on. It's Amish culture, and Evangelical religion with prayer services on Wendesday nights, and hex signs, and farmland with bank barns.

Pennsylvania Dutch culture is interesting in and of itself, because it may be America's first real ethnic culture that stood the test of time. It has had 250 years to evolve, since the first Germans came over in the 1700s. It's still distinct, which is the topic of discussion in a way. It's pretty much uniquely American at this point.

[photoLith]

^
I go to areas where the Amish live often north of Pittsburgh and central OH and often overhear them talking. It’s interesting to note that they speak old German from the 18th-17th centuries. It differs greatly from modern German. Much like how Middle English differs from modern English. German speakers can still understand what they’re saying mostly but they can’t speak it anymore.

The Amish are super friendly and in Somerset County here in PA back when I used to take photos all the time i actually was allowed to take photos in one of their churches while they were having a service. Wasn’t allowed to take photos of anyone’s face but could take photos from the back of the church building. As an aside, the Amish in Somerset County are the 2nd oldest group of Amish (settled in 1772); Berks County, PA being the oldest (1740) and are the only group that have dedicated church buildings. Every single other group of Amish hold church services in a different house every Sunday and don’t have dedicated church buildings.

The most interesting group of Amish that I’ve encountered are the Byler Amish who live around Belleville, PA in the most beautiful valley on the east coast; sort of near State College. They are the most strict and conservative of all of the Amish that I know of and have yellow buggies. You can tell what sect of Amish most are by what their buggies look like. The Byler Amish live in the Kishacoquillas Valley aka Big Valley, where Belleville is. It’s interesting to note that there are 3 different churches (sects) of Amish in this one valley.

If anyone comes to PA to witness the Amish, skip Lancaster which is just a giant tourist trap and go to Belleville and the Big Valley. I’ve been all over the country and it is one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been and luckily it will stay that way as many of the farms have conservation easements on them which means they can never be developed into hideous housing tracts from retirees from Philly/Baltimore/DC.

On a sidenote, it’s actually amazing how many of the farms etc within reach of Philly, DC and Baltimore are protected by conservation easements. They really help curtail the spread of horrifying suburbia on the east coast.

This map has nearly all conservation easements on it, it’s freaking fascinating (especially with just how much is protected around Philly). Just found it a few days ago and have been obsessed with looking at it and seeing just how much land is permanently protected from the spread of sprawl. I’m really glad that so much is protected because the valleys in Virginia and PA/Maryland are so beautiful and I was always worried that sprawl would forever ruin them. More needs to be protected by conservation easements everywhere but every year more acreage is added all over.

https://site.tplgis.org/NCED/interactivemap/

What really bums me out though is that so little of Texas Hill Country is protected. The sprawl of Austin and San Antonio is quickly ruining the beautiful Hill Country. Where my parents live is some horrible sprawling McMansion suburb of New Braunfels. They are of the generation that just loves McMansions and have no care in the world about the environment. Their retirement tract helps ruin the Hill Country. The people who own 1035 acres to the south of my mamaws 600 acres luckily preserved their land with a conservation easement. But my mamaw is old and I’m afraid when my parents and my aunt and uncle get the property they will sell it and it will be turned into a schlock suburban McMansion development since it’s only about 40 min outside of Austin.

[plinko]

I wonder if the Texas roots come from the port of entry? My relatives on my dad’s side went from Germany to the Ukraine and then from Odessa to Galveston in the 1870s. Then they all oddly went to North Dakota. My grandparents both spoke German though born in the US in 1909 and 1916 and made German meals for us when we were kids in the 80s. They both died before I was ever curious about any of it.

[CaliNative]

Here in California, a fair number have some German ancestry, but I can't think of any obvious pockets of German speakers or German culture like those that exist in the Midwest and Texas. I like German food and beer once in a while (although I eat Mexican, Chinese, Thai and Korean food much more frequently) and seek it out around "Oktobefest" time. There are some pretty good German restaurants in the San Diego area, and a few communities have "Oktoberfest" type celebrations, since SD has a good beer scene with many craft breweries, some making German style beers. I'll let others comment on the German scene in Northern California.

Of course John Steinbeck in is his novel "East of Eden" deals a lot with it, and describes the anti-German feelings during WW 1 in the Salinas Valley, which he witnessed himself as a teenager of half German ancestry. The film version of "East of Eden" (starring James Dean in one of his few performances before his early death in 1955 in a car crash) also shows the anti-German feelings.

In Minnesota, the small city of New Ulm is heavily German, and has a good Oktoberfest. They even have a big statue of the German who led the German uprising that wiped out 3 Roman legions in the Battle of the Teutoberg Forest. The Romans had to retreat back to the west side of the Rhine. The Emperor Augustus was very distraught after this catastrophic defeat and loss of 3 legions. He died shortly after.

In Michigan, there is the town of Frankenmuth north of Flint that celebrates its German heritage with celebrations around Oktoberfest time and also around Christmas.

[Centropolis]

My German ancestry is protestant Pennsylvanian German (Philadelphia not Amish) which is far older (18th century immigration) and “dilute” than midwestern catholic German influence. Cincinnati and Milwaukee seem to have the most German influence left in the midwest - St. Louis (the third city of the German triangle) really tamped down its vast public German influence harder than other heavily German midwestern cities during WW1 it appears.

I used to live on a grand apartment/walkup boulevard that once was named Berlin Ave. but was changed like dozens of street names once the US became involved in WW1 - was changed to Pershing Ave…St. Louis at one time had a WASPY New England-derived power structure that probably influenced this and was already annoyed by the German catholics - the Bavarians ended up overpowering them in the end.

[Centropolis]

Article on how some streets are regaining their old German names honorarily:

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/arts...er-world-war-i

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

Cincinnati and Milwaukee seem to have the most German influence left in the midwest - St. Louis (the third city of the German triangle)

Don't forget about Pittsburgh and the twin cities.

The German triangle is really more of the German "super-triangle" in terms of the 5 major US metros with the highest percentage of german ancestry among the NHW population.

Milwaukee: 34.6%
Twin Cities: 31.4%
Cincinnati: 29.1%
St. Louis: 28.7%
Pittsburgh: 27.8%

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by Docere

Is there any visible display of German culture or identity in America today?

Ever heard of Ferris Bueller's Day Off and the Von Steuben Day Parade?

[Steely Dan]

As for the Germans in Chicago, this town got a shit ton of them too (including most of my maternal lineage), but Chicago also got lots of Poles, Irish, Italians, Scandinavians, Greeks, and a whole constellation of various Eastern European Slavs, such that the Germans got a lot more diluted here compared to the cities highlighted in my post above.

We live in Lincoln Square, which is one of chicago's most prominent legacy German neighborhood, but it's not all that overtly "german" anymore. Some old German bakeries, restaurants, and DANK haus (chicago's german cultural center) are all that's left that's "German" in a daily basis sort of way.

Lincoln Square also hosts Chicago's main Maifest and Oktoberfest celebrations every spring and fall, so if you happen to visit my hood on one of those two weekends, then the "German" legacy will be very overt.

But when I look at the people who live on my block, I believe I'm the only one with old school german-chicagoan roots. In fact, with my kids being 7th generation german-chicagoans, they might have some of the deepest local German roots in the neighborhood.

[BigDipper 80]

Cleveland has an interesting pocket of post-WWII German refugees known as the Gottscheers, who were ethnic Germans living in Slovenia that fled from the Soviets after they took over Yugoslavia. There are probably only a few hundred people left that speak the Gottscheer dialect at this point, if even that many.

Cincinnati claims to have the "largest Oktoberfest outside of Munich" but I have no idea how true that is.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by BigDipper 80

Cleveland has an interesting pocket of post-WWII German refugees known as the Gottscheers, who were ethnic Germans living in Slovenia that fled from the Soviets after they took over Yugoslavia. There are probably only a few hundred people left that speak the Gottscheer dialect at this point, if even that many.

Cincinnati claims to have the "largest Oktoberfest outside of Munich" but I have no idea how true that is.

That reminds me of the Volga ethnic Germans which fled Russia and later the USSR and populated the “leftovers” of the midwest in Kansas and the central/northern plains and were skilled in dryland farming from living on the steppe-like areas near the Volga River. I once dated a girl in Kansas City of this ancestry and hadn't been aware of it before.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

As for the Germans in Chicago, this town got a shit ton of them too (including most of my maternal lineage), but Chicago also got lots of Poles, Irish, Italians, Scandinavians, Greeks, and a whole constellation of various Eastern European Slavs, such that the Germans got a lot more diluted here compared to the cities highlighted in my post above.

We live in Lincoln Square, which is one of chicago's most prominent legacy German neighborhood, but it's not all that overtly "german" anymore. Some old German bakeries, restaurants, and DANK haus (chicago's german cultural center) are all that's left that's "German" in a daily basis sort of way.

Lincoln Square also hosts Chicago's main Maifest and Oktoberfest celebrations every spring and fall, so if you happen to visit my hood on one of those two weekends, then the "German" legacy will be very overt.

But when I look at the people who live on my block, I believe I'm the only one with old school german-chicagoan roots. In fact, with my kids being 7th generation german-chicagoans, they might have some of the deepest local German roots in the neighborhood.

Second generation German in Chicago reprazent!

. . .