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  #41901  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2018, 2:08 PM
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  #41902  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2018, 3:07 PM
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  #41903  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2018, 3:57 PM
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Is that evidence they're finally starting work on re-purposing this building? I have been anxiously awaiting construction to start. It's supposed to have a market on the ground floor... would love for it to be a Trader Joe's since the closest one is over in North Center.

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Originally Posted by killaviews View Post
5050 N. Broadway
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  #41904  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2018, 4:23 PM
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Wrigley Field, which is like 2 miles away manages to get 35-40k people in and out of a neighborhood. 4k people won’t be an issue. Uptown is also pretty easy to get to from the Ravenswood Metra stop. The Flats won’t be giving any tenants a space in their garage on Broadway. I’m sure they will rent spaces, which most of their residents probably won’t opt for.
Where do you get that? I'm sure Cedar Street will advertise secured garage parking even if it is paid and not included with the rent. Average parking utilization for the newest buildings with >10 units, presumably luxury units built at or near 1:1 ratio before the TOD ordinance, was around 60%. So, in the pool of renters who are paying new construction, luxury rents, 2 out of 3 renters in Chicago have a car and need a place to park it. Now, it's true that some portion of those car owners can be persuaded to give up their car in exchange for living in a prime location near transit, so optimistically maybe we end up with 50% of [new construction] renters in Chicago needing a parking space.*

It also means that, because many of the new rental buildings in the city are built as TOD, there's a whole half of the market that does own cars which is being underserved and presumably there is some amount of pent-up demand for apartments with parking.

With 710 apartments overall in Cedar Street's project, that's approximately 355 spots needed. But the existing garage holds 600 cars, so there should be ample parking spaces at 5050 N Broadway for any resident who wants one, and maybe some public parking available also.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea for the city to eliminate parking minimums that raise housing costs needlessly for people who choose not to own cars. This is the case both along rail lines and bus routes. New construction units are usually targeted at the wealthiest Chicagoans, but over time they will filter down to lower strata of society while their increased costs, relative to apartments without parking, will stick around. However, we shouldn't be naive and assume that the majority of Chicagoans who do own cars can somehow be strong-armed into giving them up through the zoning code. People choose to own cars for a variety of very rational reasons, including shorter commutes and increased convenience...

* - this ignores the many renters in small vintage multifamily buildings from 2-flats up to half courtyards that largely park on the street. Also excludes any and all owner-occupied housing, like condos and SFHs, who by virtue of their stronger financial position are more likely to own a car.
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Last edited by ardecila; Jul 1, 2018 at 4:44 PM.
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  #41905  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2018, 9:54 PM
SammisAran SammisAran is offline
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ive been here pretty much just as long, its absolutely been proposed over years. by who i couldnt say, my memory isnt that good either. if the Search functionality on this board was actually viable as a tool id dig up the offenders
There was a bit of discussion about Uptown Theater in relation to the proposed concert venues at Lincoln Yards. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...229869&page=11
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  #41906  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2018, 10:24 PM
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^Thanks for finding those. I knew it wasn't all that long ago but I couldn't find it in the Gen Dev thread. So my comment was a 80-120 million budget. After they get in the middle of this thing, let's see how close they stick to their 75 million number.
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  #41907  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2018, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Where do you get that? I'm sure Cedar Street will advertise secured garage parking even if it is paid and not included with the rent. Average parking utilization for the newest buildings with >10 units, presumably luxury units built at or near 1:1 ratio before the TOD ordinance, was around 60%. So, in the pool of renters who are paying new construction, luxury rents, 2 out of 3 renters in Chicago have a car and need a place to park it. Now, it's true that some portion of those car owners can be persuaded to give up their car in exchange for living in a prime location near transit, so optimistically maybe we end up with 50% of [new construction] renters in Chicago needing a parking space.*
.....
With 710 apartments overall in Cedar Street's project, that's approximately 355 spots needed. But the existing garage holds 600 cars, so there should be ample parking spaces at 5050 N Broadway for any resident who wants one, and maybe some public parking available also.
I don’t think that ratio applies to Cedar Street Uptown developments. Most of their other large projects have no parking. The apartments are smaller and seem to be targeted to young people. They were giving away bikes if you signed a two year lease.

I bet the main use of the garage will be for the retail tenants, which like someone said above, I hope it’s a Trader Joe’s.
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  #41908  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
^Thanks for finding those. I knew it wasn't all that long ago but I couldn't find it in the Gen Dev thread. So my comment was a 80-120 million budget. After they get in the middle of this thing, let's see how close they stick to their 75 million number.
Guys, all I'll say is to remember whats been happening with the Congress. They STILL haven't broken ground after being bought by an extremely competent developer (who has done another huge project like this before at Cadillac Palace) way back in spring of 2015. They are using all the same public subsidies and tax breaks and have been working on lining all that up for three years now. Also remember that the Congress is much smaller than the Uptown, hasn't been vacant for decades, and comes with multifamily and retail liner buildings AND a vacant lot eligible for TOD. The notion that Uptown will be ready by 2020 is laughable, it's not going to happen, the bureaucratic mechanics of such a deal alone make it an impossibility.

So while it would be a-fucking-mazing if they pull this off, their stated timeline is a joke. These things don't happen that fast.

Also surprise surprise, JAM suddenly wants to fix up the Uptown now that they are locked out of the Aragon Ballroom because LiveNation bought it out from under them. Like I said, JAM never had any intention of reviving that building, only to block competition from the 5000 person capacity Aragon. Now that they lost control of that venue they suddenly think they are going to get Uptown back online in 2 years, no way.
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  #41909  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 12:51 AM
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  #41910  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 1:24 AM
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  #41911  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 1:32 AM
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  #41912  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 1:33 AM
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Those rowhouses turned out gorgeous! The use of appropriate materials really makes that project shine.
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  #41913  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 2:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Guys, all I'll say is to remember whats been happening with the Congress. They STILL haven't broken ground after being bought by an extremely competent developer (who has done another huge project like this before at Cadillac Palace) way back in spring of 2015. They are using all the same public subsidies and tax breaks and have been working on lining all that up for three years now. Also remember that the Congress is much smaller than the Uptown, hasn't been vacant for decades, and comes with multifamily and retail liner buildings AND a vacant lot eligible for TOD. The notion that Uptown will be ready by 2020 is laughable, it's not going to happen, the bureaucratic mechanics of such a deal alone make it an impossibility.

So while it would be a-fucking-mazing if they pull this off, their stated timeline is a joke. These things don't happen that fast.

Also surprise surprise, JAM suddenly wants to fix up the Uptown now that they are locked out of the Aragon Ballroom because LiveNation bought it out from under them. Like I said, JAM never had any intention of reviving that building, only to block competition from the 5000 person capacity Aragon. Now that they lost control of that venue they suddenly think they are going to get Uptown back online in 2 years, no way.
Each and every project is its own thing. Just because Congress Theatre Rehab is stalled doesn’t mean the Uptown project won’t be successful.

I agree that we should be cautious with our optimism, but at least things are moving foreword
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  #41914  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 7:30 AM
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Those rowhouses turned out gorgeous! The use of appropriate materials really makes that project shine.
Yep. They need a patina, but they’re miles better than 99% of the faux French McMansion garbage that Chicagoans like to put up in Lincoln Park.
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  #41915  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 11:27 AM
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75 million is a laughably low number, it's going to be literally 2x+

The Fox in Oakland cost nearly 100 million and the Uptown is larger and in worse shape, anyone who isn't skeptical hasn't been paying attention
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  #41916  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea for the city to eliminate parking minimums that raise housing costs needlessly for people who choose not to own cars. This is the case both along rail lines and bus routes. New construction units are usually targeted at the wealthiest Chicagoans, but over time they will filter down to lower strata of society while their increased costs, relative to apartments without parking, will stick around. However, we shouldn't be naive and assume that the majority of Chicagoans who do own cars can somehow be strong-armed into giving them up through the zoning code. People choose to own cars for a variety of very rational reasons, including shorter commutes and increased convenience...
Entirely agreed with respect to the comment I bolded, ardecila. Let's face it, not everyone lives and works at a location that makes it easy or timely to get to via transit (even though obviously Chicago's much better than most places at this!), but even more importantly, some people live in the city and commute to the suburbs for employment, which isn't always feasible because far more inbound options than outbound are available during morning rush and vice-versa. And not everywhere in the suburbs is easily accessible by transit, anyhow.

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  #41917  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenmore View Post
75 million is a laughably low number, it's going to be literally 2x+

The Fox in Oakland cost nearly 100 million and the Uptown is larger and in worse shape, anyone who isn't skeptical hasn't been paying attention
I’m still trying to be optimistic (too much pessimism kills off hope), but I agree that the budget would certainly have to be higher than this. Interesting that Crains has not discussed this news at all—they must also be waiting for more legitimate details...
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  #41918  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 1:13 PM
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Each and every project is its own thing. Just because Congress Theatre Rehab is stalled doesn’t mean the Uptown project won’t be successful.

I agree that we should be cautious with our optimism, but at least things are moving foreword
You didn't read what I said, I'm not being skeptical that the Uptown renovation will happen, I'm being realistic about the mechanics of such a project. The Congress isn't "stalled" it's creeping forward. Why is it only "creeping"? Because that's how projects reliant on a suite of government handouts move, very very very slowly. So no, the Uptown doesn't have some sort of magical teleportation device allowing them to just *POOF* avoid the layers and layers of government bureaucracy that exist to ensure handouts aren't abused. It's going to take them at least until 2020 just to get all these tax credits and TIF signed off on. So while I'd love to be able to catch a show there in two years, it ain't happening.

For example, do you know how National Historic Tax Credits are approved? The National Parks Service needs to review and make comments on the plans. That's right, the PARKS SERVICE... Why? Because they are in charge of the National Register of Historic Places. They get to make all sorts of comments on your design from the details of the replacement windows to where you put your ADA bathrooms to the color of paint you are using. And if NPS does not approve, then no tax credits. This takes many months, usually over a year and you can't even start working on it until you have full plans for the site. Even then you need to balance making the NPS happy and ensuring the City of Chicago Department of Buildings will approve your NPS approved plans. As you know, the DOB is not guaranteed to approve any set of plans and, if your NPS approved plans require revisions, then you need to send those revised plans back to NPS AGAIN to be approved. Now on top of that they are also dealing with Chicago Landmarks who add a whole 'nother level of approvals as well as trying to negotiate which portions of the improvements will be covered by TIF.

This ain't rehabbing 3 flats, it's about the most complicated project you can undertake in the entire US and, owing to our free market system, must also make economic sense at the end of the day. My comments about the Congress are that it is MUCH closer to being a conventional asset type (due to the 50 apartments and 17k SF of retail) than the Uptown which is a standalone theater. So while they have to also address everything I mention above, they are also trying to convince a bank that, even after all those handouts and challenges, this thing is still financially solvent based solely on the income of a 5800 capacity venue.
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  #41919  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 2:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenmore View Post
75 million is a laughably low number, it's going to be literally 2x+

The Fox in Oakland cost nearly 100 million and the Uptown is larger and in worse shape, anyone who isn't skeptical hasn't been paying attention
Construction costs in Oakland/The Bay Area are not the same as in Chicago, so it's an apples-to-oranges comparison, really, regardless of both buildings being theaters. IIRC, the primary issues with the Uptown are not structural, but MEP-related...which can still be a lot of money. However, since the current owner is part of the re-development, they have possibly (most likely) already done an thorough assessment of the existing conditions, and that's what their initial estimate is based on. Even if cost overruns are 10-15% more than the initial stated amount, that's still not $100 million.....buuuuuuuttttt.....that can change in a hot minute, so...



Also, unrelated, if some of you haven't visited this site, the City has a website related to TIF districts and what exactly they fund:

https://webapps1.cityofchicago.org/ChicagoTif/
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Old Posted Jul 2, 2018, 4:01 PM
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