CHICAGO | General Developments

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

Any thoughts from our libertarian-minded posters on this announcement? This plan requires lots of public money.

I like paying taxes for this stuff.

Unlike no bid contracts, overly generous pensions to enrich towns in Arizona, etc

Invest in the city.

So there you go

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by marothisu

This is the data of Lower West Side of the 2010 ACS vs. 2016 ACS (because you aren't supposed to compare the ACS to the decennial census)...

Total Population Difference
Asian alone, non Hispanic: +522 people
Black alone, non Hispanic: +266 people
White, Non Hispanic alone: +209 people
Hispanic: -3490 people

Population Percentage Difference
White alone, non Hispanic: +1.65 pct points
Asian alone, non Hispanic: +1.62 pct points
Black alone, non Hispanic: +1.02 pct points
Hispanic: -4.23 pct points


So from what I can see, I wouldn't call any of these things booming even from a percentage standpoint.

I assume the Asian growth is spurred by both Chinatown encroachment and some UIC students. Data-wise, this seems to put the lie to the notion that white people are fully behind gentrification in Pilsen. I've noticed the Xilin Senior Center opening up all the way at Oakley and Blue Island in the Heart of Chicago area, which seems far from other Chinese populations on paper. The townhouse development going up there is also from a real estate team that sells heavily in the Chinese community.

Can you show the same data but with households instead of raw population? I think the lackluster population numbers are due to a shrinking household size as Mexican families, many of them multi-generational, are replaced by singles and couples/roommates. Anecdotally as a landlord, the apartments I rent out to Latino families are often 4 people in a 2BR unit, while the white folks would be 2 people in a 2BR unit.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

Any thoughts from our libertarian-minded posters on this announcement? This plan requires lots of public money.

I support the expenditure but I think the city should demand more in return. Maybe some deed restrictions on the title that require Jam to maintain a certain level of good repair, or the city can repossess.

I certainly don't want the city to own it outright, they suck majorly at managing cultural venues and will not bring in half the income that a private promoter would. Instead of top-dollar shows that can keep the building above water financially, we'd end up with CPS drama festivals and Theaster Gates experimental theater. Not that those aren't important, but they would create a huge and ongoing subsidy for the city government when such things could be more economically done at many other venues in the city.

Also don't want the city dictating content restrictions to Jam either, if they want to host a Bruce Rauner rally or an Ann Coulter presentation they should be able to do so.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by JK47

*Edit: Different tactic* So are these concerns particular to recent developments or could you have raised them any of the numerous times we've discussed this topic? Public money has been on the table for ages as a necessary component of getting a renovation plan. Likewise the size of the venue hasn't changed at all so if there's an issue about whether the theater is viable post renovation that calls into question whether the theater should be renovated at all (which I don't recall you questioning in the past). So it seems like being skeptical NOW is more of a contrarian impulse on your part given how people are reacting here than an honest attempt at raising these issues.

ive absolutely raised these concerns about the viability of the theater in the past. i mean...hasnt virtually everyone?

i think one can want to see this succeed, value the architecture, and still ask..."how"? this theater failed nearly the minute it opened, and that was during the era that it was still common for society to go to large theaters like this as part of a regular neighborhood routine. it also offered an amenity that was incredibly rare that people didnt have in their homes: early air conditioning. i imagine the original intention of the theater was to have regular nightly shows, and it would remain viable on pure volume...and that was about precisely the time people stopped doing that. now it will serve as more of a destination, every once in a while, kind of venue. but that raises the question of how they expect to find enough programming of this scale to make the massive operating costs viable, which has always been a realistic concern, otherwise it would have been done already. if not just bands, then what else? i recall a common issue was that the stage depth was even too shallow to do typical Broadway scale performance.

[ardecila]

^ The operating costs will never be small, but new technologies and careful management can greatly reduce the energy and water demands for the building. Development of the adjacent parking lot can provide an income stream that cross-subsidizes the theater operations (this is how the Oriental Theater was intended to operate). A corporate sponsor can put their name on the building as well for a little extra boost.

[tjp]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Total Population Difference
Asian alone, non Hispanic: +522 people
Black alone, non Hispanic: +266 people
White, Non Hispanic alone: +209 people
Hispanic: -3490 people

This is interesting. I don't spend much time in Pilsen at all, but based on the numbers above, it seems the pace of gentrification is being exaggerated quite a bit.

[OhioGuy]

Finally good news this week! I am elated!!

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

This...



_


is happening !

[Near North Resident]

Good to see that eyesore is going to be renovated, finally some good news for Uptown

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by tjp

This is interesting. I don't spend much time in Pilsen at all, but based on the numbers above, it seems the pace of gentrification is being exaggerated quite a bit.

I think the fact that a lot of Hispanic people have left amplify the other stuff from a percentage standpoint. The areas that have seen population growth are mostly east pilsen. East of Morgan and continuing into the area east of the Expressway. It went from 82% Hispanic to 77%. I suspect you'd find a larger change in areas of Logan square in the same time period than this.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I suspect you'd find a larger change in areas of Logan square in the same time period than this.

well yea, its not even close

[Baronvonellis]

The Rosemont theatre is being torn down soon, and it coincidentally has almost the exact number of seats that the Uptown has 4,400. The Uptown could take all the business that they used to have in Rosemont and bring it back to the city. Win Win! I saw Jerry Seinfeld at the Rosemont, and the place was packed. They could bring in big name comedians as well as concerts.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by tjp

This is interesting. I don't spend much time in Pilsen at all, but based on the numbers above, it seems the pace of gentrification is being exaggerated quite a bit.

True to a certain extent, but then again population numbers really don't always indicate the influence of an area. The Pearl District in Portland, for example, carries a lot of weight for defining Portland's modern reputation and it only has a population of a bit over five thousand people. Of course other neighborhoods in Portland also play a role in its reputation now, but an argument can be made that the Pearl started it all. Sometimes relatively small shifts in numbers actually hide entire sea changes in an area.

[killaviews]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

...but that raises the question of how they expect to find enough programming of this scale to make the massive operating costs viable, which has always been a realistic concern, otherwise it would have been done already. if not just bands, then what else? i recall a common issue was that the stage depth was even too shallow to do typical Broadway scale performance.

Two well funded entities thinks it’s viable. That fact that there is an agreement to get this done says someone crunched some numbers and figured it out. I’m not worried about finding enough programming. The concert industry is booming. People love to spend money on experiences.

[roshea999]

The fact that it will have varying capacity depending on the show is huge.

This will draw in all types of performances from concerts to comedy acts to live podcasts and other stage shows. This is a huge win. I really hope it happens this time and I suspect it's plenty viable. Can't wait to finally get inside the Uptown!

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by killaviews

I’m not worried about finding enough programming. The concert industry is booming. People love to spend money on experiences.

Great points. There have been many studies on how younger generations are more likely to spend money on experiences. Add to that, new types of events like eSports which sells out small arenas and is expected to grow ~40% in 2018..

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

The Rosemont theatre is being torn down soon, and it coincidentally has almost the exact number of seats that the Uptown has 4,400. The Uptown could take all the business that they used to have in Rosemont and bring it back to the city. Win Win! I saw Jerry Seinfeld at the Rosemont, and the place was packed. They could bring in big name comedians as well as concerts.

Really good editorial about the Rosemont Theater, and the overall Chicago entertainment market, from the Trib:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...nt=firefox-b-1

Definitely bolsters the case for building parking at Uptown, but also makes me question even more Sterling Bay's plans for entertainment at Lincoln Yards. It will have neither a robust transit access (apart from the Clybourn Metra) or a lot of convenient on-site parking. Uptown at least has the Red and Purple Lines. I wonder if CTA could run limited-stop service from Skokie to Wilson for the suburban crowd, too. Those Purple Line tracks are totally empty outside of rush hours.

[sentinel]

Not gonna lie, I teared up a little when I read the news this morning, as the Uptown theater is one of my favorite buildings in the country, and I'm elated that it will be restored and preserved for generations to come.
This corner of Uptown has been a notorious drug market for years, so if gentrification helps eliminate that, I'm all for it. And as mentioned by others, the Wilson Red line renewal is perhaps the biggest driver for renewed interest in Uptown, which desperately needs any sort of new development. Anyone who thinks otherwise, or doesn't believe that there is a market for live events in this part of the City is brain-dead or just gets off on being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

[the urban politician]

I can’t believe anyone here is worried about this thing being financially viable. It means you aren’t doing your math.

Think about it. Of $75 million, the partnership owning and running this only need to cough up $26 million. The rest is public money. This is a huge windfall for them!

We don’t know what part is debt or equity, but if we assume 2/3 debt, then they only need to come up with around $17 million in short term financing. Are you kidding me? That’s nothing! This is arguably the largest classic movie palace in the US. I can see banks clamoring for the chance to finance this, and if they are smart they will negotiate naming rights, like with the Chicago Theatre (think BMO Harris Uptown Theatre).

For $17 million you get a restored, massive theatre/venue the likes of which will never be built again. The developers won’t even need much revenue to refi, and can easily run this place with relatively little debt service compared to other venues of this size, thus less pressure on generating high revenues. Less risk to them, more flexibility, and HUGE opportunities for profit.

This one’s a major winner.

[the urban politician]

The only reason Chicago didn’t do this for the Ricketts, btw, is because they are bagillionaires, plus Wrigley is already a humongous money machine.

But this is a good use of public money for anyone who has some sense of civic pride.

[Vlajos]

A huge portion of the public money for the Uptown Theater is almost certainly Federal Historic Tax Credits, which is equity. Very exciting news indeed!