Toronto supplants US cities as fastest growing tech hub

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Toronto's innovation ecosystem is nothing to sneeze at, in fact it's very impressive imo, but it's not even close to being in the same conversation as the larger areas, at least not yet.

Agreed. It seems like every so often we hear about the new up and coming tech "hub" but is it really? What is a hub anyway? We've got monikers like Silicon Beach, Silicon Prairie, Silicon Hills, Silicon Peach, Silicon Cornfields. What's next? Silicon Tundra?

Nebraska’s ‘Silicon Prairie’ Is Growing Into A Hub For Innovation
October 3, 2019

Despite its unfortunate tourism slogan, Nebraska is, in fact, for everyone. And it’s an especially attractive area for startups to plant their roots and bloom.

Nebraska’s tech scene, centered around the nearby cities of Omaha and Lincoln, has become an under-the-radar hub for innovation. With large examples of success like Hudl, which has raised over $100 million, and BuilderTREND with its estimated $45 million in yearly revenue, the ever-evolving “Silicon Prairie” is primed to earn a spot in the national spotlight with a new generation of startups.

https://news.crunchbase.com/venture/...or-innovation/

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by lio45

Your premise is flawed. The “incentive” is that the typical tech grad looking at moving to Toronto isn’t in California but rather, in a semi-shithole country, and it’s easier to get into Canada than into the USA.

If you look at it that way, it makes perfect sense.

Actually, last I checked, Canada still bleeds talent to the USA every year, but compensates (in part at least) by importing talent from other places.

I get that, but how does that prove "the quality is equal of better than the US"? Is there evidence to support that claim?

[dc_denizen]

Isn’t Vancouver known for video game design studios ? That’s gotta put it in competition with Toronto

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

The OP correctly points out the importance of a tech ecosystem but so far in 2022, Canada has created 3 unicorns, 2 are in Vancouver, 1 is in Calgary, none in Toronto yet.

According to Investopedia, the term unicorn refers to a privately held startup company with a value of over $1 billion.

Startups that have attained Unicorn Status from Jan-Jul 2022:
San Francisco Bay: 53
Elkon, Hayward, CA
Transcarent, San Francisco, CA
Envoy, San Francisco, CA
INXEPTION, San Francisco, CA
Placer, Los Altos, CA
Big Panda, Mountain View, CA
Ironclad, San Francisco, CA
CaptivateIQ, San Francisco, CA
FTX US, Berkeley, CA
Minlo, Palo Alto, CA
Alto, San Francisco, CA
Domestikka, Berkeley, CA
Phantom, San Francisco, CA
Athelas, Mountain View, CA
productboard, Oakland, CA
Salt Security, Palo Alto, CA
Uniphore, Palo Alto, CA
Helium, San Francisco, CA
Omada Health, San Francisco, CA
BloomReach, Mountain View, CA
Roofstock, Oakland, CA
SiFive, San Mateo, CA
Cresta, San Francisco, CA
CommerceIQ, Mountain View, CA
Tarana, Milpitas, CA
Clarify, San Francisco, CA
Boba, Palo Alto, CA
Binance.US, San Francisco, CA
Viz.ai, San Francisco, CA
NexHealth, San Francisco, CA
Upside Foods, Berkeley, CA
Teleport, Oakland, CA
Mashgin, Palo Alto, CA
Abnormal Security, San Francisco, CA
Material, Redwood City, CA
Unit, San Francisco, CA
Imply, San Francisco, CA
Glean, Palo Alto, CA
Monte Carlo, San Francisco, CA
Zip, San Francisco, CA
Vanta, San Francisco, CA
Turntide, Sunnyvale, CA
DataStax, Santa Clara, CA
AplhaSense, San Francisco, CA
Magic Eden, Mountain View, CA
Front, San Francisco, CA
Pave, San Francisco, CA
Flexiv, Santa Clara, CA
Visby Medical, San Jose, CA
Xpansiv, San Francisco, CA
SingleStore, San Francisco, CA
Title21 Health Solutions, Pleasanton, CA
Class Dojo, San Francisco, CA

New York Tri-State: 23
Fractal, New York City, NY
IL Makiage, New York City, NY
CAIS, New York City, NY
Lukka, New York City, NY
Esusu, New York City, NY
Loadsmart, New York City, NY
Wayflyer, New York City, NY
BlueVoyant, New York City, NY
Kindbody, New York City, NY
Gauntlet, New York City, NY
Staffbase, New York City, NY
Amagi, New York City, NY
Optimism, New York City, NY
Gila, New York City, NY
Jeeves, New York City, NY
Capitolis, New York City, NY
Electric, New York City, NY
Cross River, Fort Lee, NJ
Chief, New York City, NY
NordVPN, New York City, NY
AVA, New York City, NY
Clear Street, New York City, NY
Backbase, New York City, NY

Southern California: 8
iTrustCapital, Los Angeles, CA
Savage X Fenty, El Segundo, CA
Happy Money, Torrance, CA
Watershed, California City, CA
Epirus, Los Angeles, CA
Spotter, Los Angeles, CA
Invoca, Santa Barbara, CA
Wonder, Venice, CA
Tebra, Corona Del Mar, CA

Pacific Northwest: 7
SeekOut, Redmond, WA
Temporal, Seattle, WA
Fabric, Bellevue, WA
iSpot.tv, Seattle, WA
GoMotive, Seattle, WA
Flexe, Seattle, WA
Exterro, Portland, OR

New England: 5
Globalization Parters, Boston, MA
ConcertAI, Boston, MA
intelyCare, Quincy, MA
BostonGene, Waltham, MA
Immuta, Boston, MA
AirSlate, Brookline, MA

Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, DC, & Virginia: 4
Oyster, Wilmington, Delaware
Upside, Washington, DC
Arcadia, Washington, DC
Caribou, Washingtonl, DC

Texas: 4
Island, Dallas, TX
SparkCognition, Austin, TX
Securonix, Addison, TX
The Boring Company, Austin, TX

Great Lakes: 3
Transfermate, Chicago, IL
Branch, Columbus, OH
Electrify America, Auburn Hills, MI

Mountain West: 3
Route, Lehi, UT
Pax8, Greenwood Village, CO
Crusoe Energy, Denver, CO

Florida: 1
Stax, Orlando, FL

Las Vegas: 1
Unstoppable Domains, Las Vegas, NV

Mexico City:
Stori, Mexico City, DF

Canada: 3
Layer Zero, Vancouver, BC
Neo Financial, Calgary, AB
Nexii, Vancouver, BC

I’ve literally never heard of a single one of these “companies”.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

I’ve literally never heard of a single one of these “companies”.

That's usually the case at this stage.

[samne]

I couldn’t read article due to pay wall, so not exactly sure of metrics used. I don’t think Toronto is doing anything particularly extraordinary compared to other North American cities. Just a matter of the city’s location and prominence in a country of almost 40 million. Unlike the US, there are few alternative locations in Canada that have the components necessary for a growing tech sector.

I do agree that highly skilled immigration is a major contributing factor. I work in engineering and Canada punches well above its weight in the world because of the highly skilled workforce it attracts.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

why? we want all our states to be doing well.

So subtle I was almost too dumb to catch it

[mhays]

"Ecosystem value," venture capital, etc., are a very different topic than who's currently big in tech -- which relates more to employment, headquarters, etc.

I'm biased of course...my city is home to two of the top four or five techs but has a second-tier ecosystem for new companies.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually, last I checked, Canada still bleeds talent to the USA every year, but compensates (in part at least) by importing talent from other places.

There used to be offices here that were set up basically for people who couldn't get work authorization in the US. The Vancouver office would be full of people from outside North America, but Canadians who applied would be told that they would have to relocate to the US.

I think there's a bit of a fiction that Canadian work authorization is given out only to for jobs that "can't" be filled by Canadians.

[someone123]

The unicorn thing is fine but that's a small part of "tech" (really I guess people are talking about software development?). Some companies never get VC investment, a big chunk of the industry is companies that IPOed a while ago and open up branch offices or hire remote, some people (often at the high end) work as consultants, etc.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by homebucket

And that also leads to the larger point. What are the top 5 tech companies in Canada (has anyone even heard of them before) and how do they compare to FAANG? What would lure a Berkeley EECS graduate to move to Toronto? It's certainly not to work for a bigger name company, not for better pay, and it's not cheaper cost of living, and it's not better weather. So what would be the incentive?

Shopify has to be the biggest tech company in Canada today when measured by valuation. But it's based in Ottawa...

But yeah, Toronto is probably attracting a lot of corporate tech talent that is leaving the U.S. because of visa issues, but it's not a big player in the tech startup scene at all.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I get that, but how does that prove "the quality is equal of better than the US"? Is there evidence to support that claim?

No, but I interpreted his comment to mean that the bang for the buck is better than in the US, which is pretty obvious since tech wages are much lower than in the US.

The highest quality tech labor is obviously in the Bay Area, but it doesn’t mean it’s the best value.

[suburbanite]

Toronto performs well in overall tech employment growth numbers, but lags in actually creating and fostering start-ups. The VC environment is still in its infancy here and will always lag its larger American peer cities just given the lower overall amounts of capital floating around. Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc. are all rapidly expanding their presence, but the homegrown success are few and far between.

Basically, it's a great place for an established tech company to open up a secondary office, but most Canadian entrepreneurs are still likely better off trying to get their vision off the ground in Silicon Valley.

[Innsertnamehere]

the ease of skilled Canadian workers to immigrate to the US in areas like Tech means it will likely always be that way, too. If you have any amount of tech talent it's fairly easy to get a job offer and get an automatic visa approval. Why try to raise Capital in Toronto when it's an easy flight and simple visa process to access capital markets in SF?

[Nite]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Isn’t Vancouver known for video game design studios ? That’s gotta put it in competition with Toronto

Montreal by far is the video game centre of Canada
Montreal game studios with the bold ones having large studios over 50 people

3Mind Games
Amazon Games Montreal
Amber
Artifact 5
Artisan Studios
Behaviour Montreal
Bethesda Games Montreal
Budge
Cardboard Utopia
Clever Endeavour Games
Cloud Chamber Studios
Compulsion Games
Cyanide
CyberConnect2
Deck13 Interactive
DistrictWare
Double Stallion
EA Motive
Eidos Montreal
Epic Montreal
Fugitive Interactive
Gameloft Montreal
Gamerizon Montreal
Illogika
Keywords Studios
Kitfox Games
Kongregate
KO_OP
Kutoka
Ludia
Ludeon Studios
MegaZebra
Minority
Mistic Software
Neonable
NetEase
Norsfell
Outerminds
Panache Digital Games
Paper Cult Montreal
People Can Fly
Phoenix Labs
Playwing
Quantic Dream
Red Barrels
Rogue Factor
Sauropod Studios
Spearhead Games
Square Enix Montreal
Thunder Lotus Games Montreal
Tribute Games
Tuque Games
Typhoon Studios
Ubisoft Montreal Montreal
Unity Montreal
Warner Bros. Games Montreal

https://gamejobhunter.com/local-vide...nies-montreal/

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

the ease of skilled Canadian workers to immigrate to the US in areas like Tech means it will likely always be that way, too. If you have any amount of tech talent it's fairly easy to get a job offer and get an automatic visa approval. Why try to raise Capital in Toronto when it's an easy flight and simple visa process to access capital markets in SF?

This is a really great point. Immigrants account for 55% of the Founders of Unicorns in the United States.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/tech/art...s-17328279.php

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

This is a really great point. Immigrants account for 55% of the Founders of Unicorns in the United States.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/tech/art...s-17328279.php

Yes and no. Yes, immigrants account for majority of unicorn founders (and are overrepresented in tech in general), but almost all tech founders of U.S. based unicorns went to school in the U.S. Going to a tech pipeline school in the U.S. is the key.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by homebucket

According to this, Toronto has a tech quality score of 57.1 with an average annual salary for a software engineer of $71,914 USD. The Bay Area comes in with a tech quality score of 100 with an average annual salary of $154,047 USD.

Other cities that scored higher in terms of tech quality include the following. Of note, the only other city that pays less than Toronto is Edmonton.
- Seattle 97.9
- Pittsburgh 95.9
- Austin 93.8
- Los Angeles 91.8
- San Diego 89.7
- Waterloo 87.7
- Madison 85.7
- NYC 83.6
- Raleigh-Durham 81.6
- DC 79.5
- Phoenix 77.5
- Denver 75.5
- Edmonton 73.4
- Salt Lake City 71.4
- Atlanta 69.3
- Vancouver 67.3
- Chicago 65.3
- Boston 63.2
- Detroit 61.2
- Portland 59.1

Despite your metric, Tech jobs in the US are going down and expanding rapidly in Canada. I am sure the organizations doing the hiring don't see a difference in the quality of the work produced.
Toronto is already the 3rd largest tech hub on the continent with the largest growth in the last few years and is destined to be number 1 in a few years.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Nite

Despite your metric, Tech jobs in the US are going down and expanding rapidly in Canada. I am sure the organizations doing the hiring don't see a difference in the quality of the work produced.

This is not true based on the schools the top tech companies are recruiting from.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by homebucket

This is not true based on the schools the top tech companies are recruiting from.

Top Tech : top 10 (brackets are 2021 numbers)

1. SF = 378,870 (373,430)
2. Seattle = 189,570 (184,660)
3. Toronto = 289,700 (270,400)
4. D.C = 259,310 (265,370)
5. NY metro = 344,520 (348,330)
6. Austin = 84,680 (79,230)
7. Boston = 166,450 (168,090)
8. Vancouver = 115,400 (91,200)
9. Dallas = 187,950(189,200)
10. Denver = 117,620 (114,900)

Between 2016 and 2021, Toronto had the most tech talent growth (+88,900 jobs), followed by Seattle (+45,560) and Vancouver (+44,460).





https://www.cbre.com/insights/books/...ch-talent-2022