CHICAGO | General Discussions

[JK47]

Originally Posted by emathias

Jk47, the census of 1790 put Philadelphia's population at 28,000. They didn't pass 40,000 until the census of 1800. Are you asserting they lost over 12,000 during the Revolution?

Well for one what was referred to as Philadelphia is actually bigger than the Philadelphia that was measured by the census since Philadelphia had sprawled beyond its old boundaries. For another Cornwallis conducted a survey (which excluded the very young and the old) and came up with something like 22000 people in the city at the time it was occupied in 1777 with authorities noting that the city was now "sparsely populated" with more than 10000 people having fled with the rebels in advance of the British Army.

Furthermore it was known then and known now that the Census of 1790 was inaccurate. Particularly in Philadelphia where prior enumerations, called Constable Returns, were used in order to compute tax obligations. So people, particularly the poor, either declined to respond or hid relatives in order to avoid what they believed was a computation for a capitation tax.

The most reliable method of estimating the population of Philadelphia during that era relies on 1) the number of residential structures and 2) the average number of persons per structure. Estimates by various contemporaries during that era return very consistent figures ranging between 7 and 8 persons per structure. There are also very solid figures for the number of inhabited structures at several points in this era. Further, using the figure from the census of 1790 (42,500) and the number of dwellings at that time (6,784) the average persons per dwelling is 6.26 which is both consistent with prior enumeration methods above and also with accounts that the census undercounted Philadelphia's population.

When I say "big city," I thought it was obvious that that would mean, by definition, that it only applied to a relatively few cities.

Except it isn't obvious and depends on which era you're talking about. In antiquity a big city is anything over 50,000. In the Middle Ages a city with with more than 10000 inhabitants would be large.

I also was not being nearly as Euro-centric as your list seems to be,

And yet the only cities you mentioned were in Europe and North America. I can't read your mind and frankly I don't appreciate you trying to shift the goalposts in such a loaded manner. Since those seemed to be the regions you were focusing on specifically I addressed it specifically which seemed appropriate since the United States was, during the period in question, settled by Europeans and had strong cultural connections with Europe, generally had the same patterns of settlement as Europe, and thanks to their commercial (and cultural) connections experienced the same economic transformations that shifted those patterns in roughly the same period of time.

[The Lurker]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Austin has an estimated population of 950,715 as of the 2017 estimates. Given that's fairly accurate, based on current growth rates, if those rates continue for the next few years then it's very possible that Austin will be over 1 million people.

Watch out for Forth Worth too. Population is 893,000 as of 2018, adding nearly 20,000 per year

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by The Lurker

Watch out for Forth Worth too. Population is 893,000 as of 2018, adding nearly 20,000 per year

Yes, good point. Though at that rate they'll end up around 950K for 2020. At that rate, they might hit 1M people in like 2022 or 2023.

[SolarWind]

July 18, 2018

[the urban politician]

I don't mind the country music theme (not my scene, but it's all good), but Tex Mex?

Welcome to your friendly suburban shopping center

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Glad they are repurposing the old building but a country themed TexMex place sounds terrible.

I'm not sure which is worse. But the combination of the two?

Pssshhh, get off your ivory tower. TexMex is delicious. Country themed however sounds tacky as fuck and doesn't make sense in a city like Chicago with zero country culture or history

[the urban politician]

^ Being surrounded by rural areas as it is, Chicago does indeed have a Country music diaspora.

In fact, most major cities in the US, whether they want to admit it or not, have plenty of country music fans

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Being surrounded by rural areas as it is, Chicago does indeed have a Country music diaspora.

In fact, most major cities in the US, whether they want to admit it or not, have plenty of country music fans

It's a giant genre of music. Of course there are fans in the greater Metropolitan area, but it still doesn't make sense to put it in the West Loop where the demographic is mostly 25-35 year old yuppies who prefer hip hop, rock, and electronic music any day over country. It just doesn't make sense

[Busy Bee]

Perhaps the word country is conjuring up for you the worst of modern butt rock with a drawl that calls itself country, when in reality the are intending it to mean Americana/Roots music. The latter would have exponentially more appeal for the country hostile/indifferent.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

, but it still doesn't make sense to put it in the West Loop where the demographic is mostly 25-35 year old yuppies who prefer hip hop, rock, and electronic music any day over country. It just doesn't make sense

Why doesn't it makes sense? The concept works in River North, Lakeview, and many other neighborhoods; why couldn't it work in the West Loop?

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

It's a giant genre of music. Of course there are fans in the greater Metropolitan area, but it still doesn't make sense to put it in the West Loop where the demographic is mostly 25-35 year old yuppies who prefer hip hop, rock, and electronic music any day over country. It just doesn't make sense

Country music is also popular in parts of Asia. My girlfriend's father loves country and made me turn to country music radio a few times when they were in the US and we were driving between Vegas and the Grand Canyon. One of his favorite artists ever is John Denver too.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Being surrounded by rural areas as it is, Chicago does indeed have a Country music diaspora.

In fact, most major cities in the US, whether they want to admit it or not, have plenty of country music fans

Eh, you have better luck in the suburbs since it's more conservative, but the city, not so much. At least for decades the city didn't even carry CMT on basic cable packages.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

Pssshhh, get off your ivory tower. TexMex is delicious. Country themed however sounds tacky as fuck and doesn't make sense in a city like Chicago with zero country culture or history

Hogwash. We have tons of country music history. National Barn Dance was a Chicago institution for 40 years broadcasting (old-timey) country music on WLS to the entire Midwest and later the nation after it was syndicated on NBC Radio. The live tapings of Barn Dance were the hottest ticket in Chicago for many years. In fact, the "famous, iconic" Grand Ole Opry only began because George Hay started hosting the Barn Dance and then went rogue to start his own radio show in Nashville.

The only reason you're rolling your eyes at country music in Chicago is because we all decided to forget about Barn Dance, and because Los Angeles and various other cities - Nashville, Atlanta - stole the role Chicago had as the nation's second center of mass culture.

[Busy Bee]

^Bless your heart, I reckon you're correct!

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Uh no dude, you forget that Chicago literally was the "West" at one time and that originally the cattle for the Union stockyards were driven in off the prairie by cowboys before the railroads started building further west. Chicago, if anything, is THE prototypical Western frontier boomtown. Started as a freaking fur trading Post and then a Fort for Pete's sake! It may have gone metropolitan, but for the first 75 years of it's existence Chicago was literally a wild west pseudo lawless boomtown.

MidWEST, NorthWESTERN University, etc, this entire area used to be the end of the line and Illinois used to be the far Western border of the US before the Louisiana purchase. The area saw it's most significant settlement during the peak of the wild west era from 1830-1900. Remember that everything from the East came to Chicago first before fanning out in all directions across the plains. Everything from the plains and mountain west was gathered up and consolidated in Chicago before it was sent back East. St Louis might have the gateway arch, but Chicago was the true pinch point, everything started and ended here. Chicago enabled and exists because of the great settlement of the West, it was the "great funnel of the West" consolidating all the wealth of the West and shipping it back East.

Great, but none of our history as being a frontier town is relevant to country theme. The vast majority of Chicago's history goes from fur trading to boom town, to industry, to commerce. Nothing about Chicago ever screamed country roads. When have you ever seen Chicago displayed as you describe it in popular culture or historical documentation? It was always more of an east coast town trapped in the middle of nowhere. You are reaching so damn hard

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

Great, but none of our history as being a frontier town is relevant to country theme. The vast majority of Chicago's history goes from fur trading to boom town, to industry, to commerce. Nothing about Chicago ever screamed country roads. When have you ever seen Chicago displayed as you describe it in popular culture or historical documentation? It was always more of an east coast town trapped in the middle of nowhere. You are reaching so damn hard

Three things:

1) The only time I voluntarily listen to country music is of I'm in a pickup hauling manure, because then it seems the natural choice. Fortunately that's rare.

2) A big, cosmopolitan city should be able to accommodate *all* sorts of people and cultures. Do you really think that Uzbek culture is any more sophisticated than US country culture is? Just because it's far away doesn't make it more sophisticated.

3) Chicago is surrounded by country for hundreds of miles in all directions. What is country if not part of regionalism, which global cities should embrace as part of their heritage. Lobster fishermen are the East Coast version of country, yet New York embraces them almost as much as Boston.

[Via Chicago]

how about this, if its a concept that has an audience and is well executed it will do fine. if it dosent or is poorly executed it will bomb. we live in a big city, i think its possible for entertainment options outside of ones you personally support to exist.

also fwiw, there was once a significant Appalachian population that lived in Uptown (hence, Carols). Fitzgeralds in Berwyn has also been successfully running for decades catering to Americana/"roots" music and audiences

also maybe im missing something here but this isnt even going to be a venue..its just a restaurant. Fulton is an adult disneyland at this point and more or less turning into what River North was in the 90s. i dont see any reason to pretend its anything else or that this is somehow hallowed ground in 2018.

tex mex is what it is. i think Uncle Julios and the like is crappy too, but whatever, its easy enough not to eat at those joints if its not your thing, take the pink line a few more stops and you should have no problem finding something more authentically Mexican

[jpIllInoIs]

"Chicago has No history with Country Music" except when it did.

WLS National Barn Dance

One of the most popular and longest running programs on radio was WLS Radio's National
Barn Dance. The show blended music, comedy and down-home theatrical skits that lasted well over five decades. The Barn Dance's influence on country and western music was second only to the Grand Ole Opry, which got it's start on WSM in Nashville.
The National Barn Dance debuted on April 19, 1924, the first Saturday night after WLS signed on the air.

By 1931, the whole show was moved to the Eighth Street Theatre (located directly behind the Stevens Hotel, now the Hilton) on Wabash Avenue and 8th Street. While officials at WLS and the theatre initially had no idea how well attended the shows would be, as the weeks, months and years rolled by, listeners showed up by the thousands to fill the 1200 seat theatre twice every Saturday night (7:30pm and 10:00pm). In fact, according to WLS' own figures, nearly three million people attended the Barn Dance performances at the Eighth Street Theatre during its 26 year run there. Every year the crowds got bigger and the lines got longer. Shows were sold out up to eight weeks in advance and lines of people snaked down Wabash waiting to enter on Saturday evenings. Many showed up hours before showtime and carefully guarded their spots in line, despite having reserved seats inside.

In addition to airing locally on WLS' 50,000 watt signal, the National Barn Dance was picked up for regional airing on NBC's Blue Network in 1932. By the next year, over 30 stations coast to coast were carrying the evenings second show, which was sponsored by Miles Laboratories - makers of Alka Seltzer. In 1949, ABC-TV televised approximately 39 weekly episodes of the National Barn Dance, which by then, featured nearly 100 performers per show......

[Baronvonellis]

Wow, I've never heard of the National Barn Dance! Very interesting. I know country music is pretty popular in the suburbs. A friend of mine is a country singer in the suburbs who tours around the area, but they never play in the city. The west loop is kind of a destination for people from the suburbs to come to the city for entertainment these days, so it makes sense there could be some country music as well. I wish there were alot more blues venues. I mean that's a Chicago thing, which gets little attention.
It's kind of ironic that no one bat's an eye when there's entertainment and dining from countries on the other side of the world all over, but if someone wants to have music from a part of the US some peoples feathers get all ruffled.

[Via Chicago]

its
not
a
venue