HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #15181  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 1:40 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 19,358
^ Got it, much appreciated.

I’m not an Indiana taxpayer so let them throw away their money, I guess, but I’ve gotta say that creating a new transfer station at Hammond (when a station that serves Hammond already exists) just seems to make no sense.

I mean, I just don’t see a lot of people riding the train from Dyer to places further East. If this were Central London that would be a different story. But this is friggin Indiana—cornfields and all. People are just going to drive.

Seems like the top priority should be providing Chicago Loop service to communities that don’t yet have it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15182  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 4:52 PM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is online now
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Got it, much appreciated.

I’m not an Indiana taxpayer so let them throw away their money, I guess, but I’ve gotta say that creating a new transfer station at Hammond (when a station that serves Hammond already exists) just seems to make no sense.

I mean, I just don’t see a lot of people riding the train from Dyer to places further East. If this were Central London that would be a different story. But this is friggin Indiana—cornfields and all. People are just going to drive.

Seems like the top priority should be providing Chicago Loop service to communities that don’t yet have it.
But that is what's happening; Dyer, Munster and Hammond are essentially suburban Chicago, and have decent-sized suburban populations that are growing, so it makes sense to have transit access that brings people easily in and out of not just Chicago but the rest of the metro area too. Between those three towns, the population is over 100,000 people, not to mention other tens and hundreds of thousands in other surrounding towns, suburbs, villages, both in Indiana and Illinois too. 'Cornfields and all' is not accurate of that part of metropolitan Chicago, it is more similar to Greater London than you think. Look on google maps, the cornfields that surrounded that area are long gone, it's very much a highly developed suburban area (for better or worse).
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15183  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 5:36 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
But that is what's happening; Dyer, Munster and Hammond are essentially suburban Chicago, and have decent-sized suburban populations that are growing, so it makes sense to have transit access that brings people easily in and out of not just Chicago but the rest of the metro area too.
The point wasn’t that these suburbs don’t need transit. It’s that they turned down a station in downtown Hammond, opting instead for a transfer station just down the road from an existing station to facilitate travel in the direction of South Bend.

Is there that much demand for a Dyer—>South Bend train trip involving transfers instead of just getting a cab to the existing Hammond station? The downtown Hammond station seems like a stronger option.

Unless. It’s possible South Shore is thinking longer term and hoping to keep intercity service to Indianapolis open as an option.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15184  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 9:34 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 19,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
The point wasn’t that these suburbs don’t need transit. It’s that they turned down a station in downtown Hammond, opting instead for a transfer station just down the road from an existing station to facilitate travel in the direction of South Bend.

Is there that much demand for a Dyer—>South Bend train trip involving transfers instead of just getting a cab to the existing Hammond station? The downtown Hammond station seems like a stronger option.

Unless. It’s possible South Shore is thinking longer term and hoping to keep intercity service to Indianapolis open as an option.
Exactly.

They are essentially removing one station (Hammond) and replacing with a new transfer station at Hammond.

Then, they are are creating 3 brand new stations.

Thus, with over $900 million in hard to get transit dollars, that region is only adding service to 3 new locations. All of this just in the hopes that people will ride the train from Dyer to places further East.

Just doesn’t seem like a great use of resources. But, whatever....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15185  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 2:04 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 14,469
Yeah I think the station decisions were unfortunate. Hammond’s existing station was always poorly positioned to serve downtown Hammond. The transfer arrangement at Gateway is important for the operating plan so that can’t be cut, and it’s hard to justify spending money to build a second Hammond stop 1 mile from the first one, especially in a heavily conservative state that is already rail-hostile.

That said, there’s certainly the possibility they could add a downtown station as infill in the future. And the Gateway stop is planned for some kind of TOD. The concept renderings are suburban schlocky trash but whatever privathe developer they bring in might provide a more truly urban design.

The routing that South Shore chose, bypassing most of NWI’s historic town centers, was based on needing to avoid conflicts with freight trains and maintain reliability in their schedule. There are also compatibility issues where South Shore’s electric wires and high platforms do not jive easily with freight trains. Plus, the Monon corridor was already owned by the public. South Shore got burned 10 years ago when they tried to build a line to Valpo on CSX track and CSX just vetoed the whole thing after millions spent on planning.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15186  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 3:53 AM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 2,899
On a different NWI CR note, I've always thought the South Chicago line should be extended over the Calumet River to Ewing Ave (East Side) and into Indiana, serving Robertsdale, Whiting, East Chicago, the industrial wasteland (surely people still work there?) and the three casinos.
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15187  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 5:15 AM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,187
.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15188  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 3:52 PM
jpIllInoIs's Avatar
jpIllInoIs jpIllInoIs is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
On a different NWI CR note, I've always thought the South Chicago line should be extended over the Calumet River to Ewing Ave (East Side) and into Indiana, serving Robertsdale, Whiting, East Chicago, the industrial wasteland (surely people still work there?) and the three casinos.
Why would City/State spend spartan transit funds on an extension into Indiana let alone to Indiana casinos?? Resulting in exported $$ from the city and competition to the future city casino. There is no revenue sharing from those casino. This is not well thought out Sig and a surprise departure from your customary insightful posts.

A much much shorter and less expensive extension of the SoCHI branch to the SteelWorks area with or without a Chicago Casino/Hotel complex would deliver a FAR better ROI for the City/ST transit funds.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15189  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 4:57 PM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 2,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs View Post
Why would City/State spend spartan transit funds on an extension into Indiana let alone to Indiana casinos?? Resulting in exported $$ from the city and competition to the future city casino. There is no revenue sharing from those casino. This is not well thought out Sig and a surprise departure from your customary insightful posts.

A much much shorter and less expensive extension of the SoCHI branch to the SteelWorks area with or without a Chicago Casino/Hotel complex would deliver a FAR better ROI for the City/ST transit funds.
Illinois would pay for the extension to Ewing Ave, and Indiana/the casinos would have to pay to extend past the state line, but they probably wouldn't pony up. But by itself, an extension to Ewing Ave probably isn't worth it (even though it would give the East Side and its 24,000 residents much better access to downtown compared to taking the bus to the current South Chicago terminal) without also extending to Whiting (and possibly East Chicago).

That's true that it would add competition to a city casino though, so that is indeed a problem!
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15190  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 6:22 PM
Randomguy34's Avatar
Randomguy34 Randomguy34 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago & Philly
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Illinois would pay for the extension to Ewing Ave, and Indiana/the casinos would have to pay to extend past the state line, but they probably wouldn't pony up. But by itself, an extension to Ewing Ave probably isn't worth it (even though it would give the East Side and its 24,000 residents much better access to downtown compared to taking the bus to the current South Chicago terminal) without also extending to Whiting (and possibly East Chicago).

That's true that it would add competition to a city casino though, so that is indeed a problem!
I actually like the idea of an extension to East Side and Indiana in the future, but the current Indiana population is too low to justify it and even the bus ridership there is pretty low. Maybe once the refineries start closing and the brownfields get turned into housing, there could be justification for a MED extension.

In the meantime, bus service needs to be greatly improved in the area. Hammond and East Chicago are right next to each other but have different bus systems, and Whiting has to rely on Hammond buses to get to East Side and the South Shore Line. It would be great if there was a unified Indiana bus system, similar to NJ Transit and CT Transit, or if they decided to join the Pace network.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15191  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2020, 11:58 PM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,187
Hammond etc. haven't had any bus service for several years. Gary runs a couple of routes that do get into Hammond and East Chicago, but transitwise, things are pretty bleak in The Region.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15192  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2020, 7:36 PM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 2,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Hammond etc. haven't had any bus service for several years. Gary runs a couple of routes that do get into Hammond and East Chicago, but transitwise, things are pretty bleak in The Region.
That is indeed bleak. A place that looks like https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6792...7i16384!8i8192 certainly seems like it should have some transit...
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:20 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.