Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by Biff

The plan

Where can I find that plan online btw?

Anyways, I am not a big fan of that idea. It requires a little bit too much road realignments and removals, but I'm not saying it wouldn't work.

[bomberjet]

That plan doesn't work anymore as there are houses built where the new E-W and N-S roads are shown in the SW quadrant.

IIRC there was another plan that didn't require the full re-alignment of Wenzel. Can't remember exactly though. The Province already bought out and demolished that property anyways.

I'd prefer the just run the north of the interchange north onto Birds Hill Road, instead of going west to Gateway. I assume they want to direct traffic that way instead of through town.

[Carboy15]

https://imgur.com/a/xJi5Trm

Here are my drawings. I think the first folded diamond would be best.

Maybe the diamond would be more accomidating for large vehicles, but I don't know how many trucks go there anyways.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

https://imgur.com/a/xJi5Trm

Here are my drawings. I think the first folded diamond would be best.

Maybe the diamond would be more accomidating for large vehicles, but I don't know how many trucks go there anyways.

That is a lot of concrete for a community of 4000 people and a seasonally busy highway.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

That is a lot of concrete for a community of 4000 people and a seasonally busy highway.

If ever the tracks get pulled, it would make sense to use the folded diamond. Later on, they could retrofit a diamond.

But I agree that intersection doesn't warrant an interchange just yet. I would be upset if this were to happen before Carberry

[bodaggin]

Shut'r down and use the Gateway/Raleigh underpass under Perimeter as the CoW connection.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

Shut'r down and use the Gateway/Raleigh underpass under Perimeter as the CoW connection.

As an aside, why is this way closed? Always thought it'd be convenient for the locals not needing to get on the highway. Also, might make a good bus path to ESP if they want to pursue that one day.

[dennis]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

That is a lot of concrete for a community of 4000 people and a seasonally busy highway.

It’s about 10000 in east st paul. Most live in the southern half and just north of the perimeter.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

As an aside, why is this way closed? Always thought it'd be convenient for the locals not needing to get on the highway. Also, might make a good bus path to ESP if they want to pursue that one day.

It was closed because the loser residents off gateway and Raleigh thought it would cause traffic chaos from all those birds hill residents rushing to go to superstore. It’s open now, but no connection to the perimeter. Another missed opportunity.

[Hecate]

And honestly why isn’t gateway Raleigh turned into a boulevard. It’s such a stupid setup.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by Hecate

And honestly why isn’t gateway Raleigh turned into a boulevard. It’s such a stupid setup.

I agree. Gateway and Raleigh have so many disconnected segments in both roads. They should have one or the other as the throughfare.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Hecate

It was closed because the loser residents off gateway and Raleigh thought it would cause traffic chaos from all those birds hill residents rushing to go to superstore. It’s open now, but no connection to the perimeter. Another missed opportunity.

No connection to perimeter is the right decision here.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

No connection to perimeter is the right decision here.

For traffic calming it would be a great idea.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

For traffic calming it would be a great idea.

Way too close to the 59 interchange to connect without essentially tearing up the whole thing. They should also do the same thing just under passing the highway with mowat road a mile west and connecting it to rothesay. Not everything needs to be connected to the main highway. Provide additional smaller collector roads to connect the neighbourhood north and south of the perimeter to allow for pedestrian and active transit, as well as taking some area traffic off the main arterial roads that do have interchanges. That’s traffic calming.

[bomberjet]

Shall we go into a detailed history of the Raleigh crossing of 101? Nah, coles notes:

-There once was a crossing of 101 but it was removed in the 90's IIRC.
-More recent times when 59N/101 was being developed, ESP was proposing a large development including a Wal-Mart in the SW quadrant of 101, essentially east of Raleigh.
-The City balked and said zero chance you're using City streets for that.
-There was a desire to have an 'emergency only' access point for ESP emerg vehicles to get to the land inside 101.
-So we ended up with this fly-over (through pass as they call it) that pretty much everyone knew eventually would turn into a general access point.

Otherwise it's too close to 59n for an interchange itself. The ramps for 59n extend over the through pass.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Shall we go into a detailed history of the Raleigh crossing of 101? Nah, coles notes:

-There once was a crossing of 101 but it was removed in the 90's IIRC.
-More recent times when 59N/101 was being developed, ESP was proposing a large development including a Wal-Mart in the SW quadrant of 101, essentially east of Raleigh.
-The City balked and said zero chance you're using City streets for that.
-There was a desire to have an 'emergency only' access point for ESP emerg vehicles to get to the land inside 101.
-So we ended up with this fly-over (through pass as they call it) that pretty much everyone knew eventually would turn into a general access point.

Otherwise it's too close to 59n for an interchange itself. The ramps for 59n extend over the through pass.

It'd be so stupid to interchange there, just have it as an access for local residents to keep them off the highway. Everyone wins if they remove those concrete barriers.

[bodaggin]

If they weren't going to allow thru-traffic, why TF did they build $40m of overpasses?

Not saying interchange access to Perimeter. Saying through traffic from ESP to CoW using the 4 bridges built.

Otherwise, save the $40m and skip the bridges altogether.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

If they weren't going to allow thru-traffic, why TF did they build $40m of overpasses?

Not saying interchange access to Perimeter. Saying through traffic from ESP to CoW using the 4 bridges built.

Otherwise, save the $40m and skip the bridges altogether.

Because the original designs for the 59N/101 interchange called for the through-pass so I guess that was part of their budget, and I'm sure it was there originally because some traffic engineers thought it was a good idea to add a local connection for the area once it actually filled in. It keeps people off Henderson, Lag, and Perimeter, keeping that capacity for longer trip travelers.

Then some residents that were certainly not traffic engineers started crying enough, got their way, and got access removed without having any factual evidence that traffic would be bad, just their fragile feelings of entitlement for the public road in front of their house.

Rather than kibosh the whole thing, I'm glad they kept it "for emergency access" for the time being so that decision can be reversed if/when needed to alleviate pressure on Henderson/Lag/Perimeter.

If they had never built the through-pass for Raleigh/Gateway, and suddenly the area had enough trips between the two areas to justify such a connection, it would certainly have fallen well into "never gonna happen" territory on Manitoba's long list of infrastructure needs.

[Carboy15]

Gateway road doesn't warrant a connection to the Perimeter. It probably doesn't get enough traffic anyways to have a connection to the Perimeter.

But that's one of the sad realities of building freeways. Not opposed to building them, but their drawbacks are seperating neighborhoods.

[Wpgstvsouth94]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

Where can I find that plan online btw?

Anyways, I am not a big fan of that idea. It requires a little bit too much road realignments and removals, but I'm not saying it wouldn't work.

Why that didn’t happen on day one is beyond me. That whole stretch feels unfinished without a proper interchange at birds hill Road…