Saskatoon Construction III

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by Crisis

C'mon now, you've recently had some riveting discussion of crosswalk lines...

It's super important stuff .

In other news, I'm looking forward to coming to town for a visit this weekend. Staying at the Alt Hotel. Going to have to scour the restaurant thread to see if there's any new restaurants I should check out.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by Wyku

Do you recall what the financial impact was on residents at the time of the original project? When the rumblings of the vote for the plan for how to address this expansion with the 15-year flat-rate property tax impact came up it didn't go over well and enough feedback got pushed back to the mayor/council to at least take another look at things before bringing it up again.

I don’t recall there being a specific tax levy identified as being allocated to the Legends Centre build at the time. However, the impact should have been greater than this one will be, given that there were fewer taxpayers at the time and probably a similar value to be financed. Legends Centre was about $22M at the time but some of the money had already been raised through fundraising and some early grant money.

edit: Since I posted about this, I've gotten some more feedback, and it does sound like the decision to proceed on the 2nd ice surface is not at all a done deal. In my opinion, it would be a major mistake to not add the second ice surface. Right now, Warman could host hockey/ringette tournaments pretty much every weekend if they had a second ice rink. Many citizens bemoan the fact that the hotel is relatively empty and there aren't enough restaurants, however, this would be a great way to bring people to town and have them spend their money on food & lodging. Yes, they would be hosting tournaments that draw teams from much farther than Saskatoon.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Wyku

Martensville is also working on a new arena development. It was slated to be done in 2022, but I think they've only maybe just broken ground on the development area. There was some heavy duty equipment around the area a few weeks back, but nothing of substance.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7308581/m...tion-facility/

I was in Martensville last week and I don't recall seeing the equipment out, although I wasn't really looking for it.

For anyone who doesn't know, the location of Martensville's arena is across the highway from the rest of the City. IMO an absolutely terrible, terrible, terrible location for an arena. I suppose the City thinks it'll be the centre of their own Legends subdevelopment, which just goes to show they don't understand what made that development such a game changer for Warman.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

For anyone who doesn't know, the location of Martensville's arena is across the highway from the rest of the City. IMO an absolutely terrible, terrible, terrible location for an arena. I suppose the City thinks it'll be the centre of their own Legends subdevelopment, which just goes to show they don't understand what made that development such a game changer for Warman.

It also really annoys me when cities decide to jump to the other side of the highway, when it is obvious that the current road infrastructure was never designed with that in mind. The current overpass was built to serve a Martensville on the East side of the highway, not the west. There will certainly be congestion from all the cars attempting to turn left onto Mierau road from the offramp.

Also, I guess the city isn't interested in enabling anybody from Martensville to walk to the arena? If the arena was built west of the city, you could potentially have kids from the elementary, high, and Catholic schools walking to the arena for stick and puck or Phys Ed classes.

[phone]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

It also really annoys me when cities decide to jump to the other side of the highway, when it is obvious that the current road infrastructure was never designed with that in mind. The current overpass was built to serve a Martensville on the East side of the highway, not the west. There will certainly be congestion from all the cars attempting to turn left onto Mierau road from the offramp.

Also, I guess the city isn't interested in enabling anybody from Martensville to walk to the arena? If the arena was built west of the city, you could potentially have kids from the elementary, high, and Catholic schools walking to the arena for stick and puck or Phys Ed classes.

While I agree with you in principle, in fairness to Martensville, plans to expand west of Hwy 12 are nothing new, and there is a greater amount of land slated for development to the east. Development appears to be unfolding pursuant to the P4G Planning District OCP. That said, it is still a blunder to put the arena on the west side of the highway, though I'd imagine that local planners were trying to put something major to anchor the development instead of just purely residential and incidental retail/services (rightly or wrongly).

Also -- the entire raison d'etre for Martensville is the personal automobile. It's not even an ostensible "railway town" like Warman. I'm not sure if we can expect much beyond that planning-wise for our two little moons, even if we hope for more.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

It also really annoys me when cities decide to jump to the other side of the highway, when it is obvious that the current road infrastructure was never designed with that in mind. The current overpass was built to serve a Martensville on the East side of the highway, not the west. There will certainly be congestion from all the cars attempting to turn left onto Mierau road from the offramp.

Also, I guess the city isn't interested in enabling anybody from Martensville to walk to the arena? If the arena was built west of the city, you could potentially have kids from the elementary, high, and Catholic schools walking to the arena for stick and puck or Phys Ed classes.

Years and years ago, I once spoke with one of Saskatoon's city planners, and he made a very good point about the highway when I suggested that Martensville would one day expand west: you have to treat the highway like a river. You can't have a single bridge crossing a river and expect the community to thrive.

This was back before the overpass was even thought of, but you make a good point: functionally, how is that overpass going to act as the central connection between two sides of the city? It isn't set up for that, nor does it have pedestrian walkways. I can't imagine any developers - be it residential or commercial - are going to want to build in a nigh inaccessible part of the City. Honestly, it'd make more sense to build it out at the failed commercial development near Lake Vista. Far more accessible and central.

It's just the latest poor planning decision from a City that's written the book on them.

[Saskabusher]

Wow- I'm surprised how little thought and planning goes into public safety and sustainability.. 'our two little moons' by the poetic phone... that's a nicer image...

[reddo]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...g?format=1000w

There is a pedestrian crossing planned, but still doesn't seem well planned out to have the city split like that with such a small overpass. To me seems like a brand new city rather than an expansion to a current one.

[Saskabusher]

interesting. everything is potential, and the pedestrian overpass- what else could it be, an underpass? will never be built. it's almost insulting, the road network and distance it has to cross. it seems more and more martinsville doesn't want to expand and/or connect to warman, which is obviously going to happen anyway if you look at another map, which will also connect to saskatoon sooner than later. pity, these local princes and their cocktail party, or backyard bbq desires...

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by reddo

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...g?format=1000w

There is a pedestrian crossing planned, but still doesn't seem well planned out to have the city split like that with such a small overpass. To me seems like a brand new city rather than an expansion to a current one.

As for the pedestrian crossing, it looks like it's simply a walkway along the overpass. Given that it's an elevated overpass in the middle of the bald-ass prairie, it doesn't make for a very inviting walk - especially in the winter. As much as the parking lot is usually very full, Legends Centre in Warman is walkable from pretty much everywhere in town. The same won't be said of the Martensville rec centre.

[Wyku]

I know the land that the arena is supposed to sit on was gifted to the city, but I think that's a small portion of the overall development site. It would seem to be more beneficial to have planned the development on the land either North or South of the Lake Vista community area, but there is challenge with a few acreages in the way (not for just the arena though). Martensville is already an oddly laid out town/city so I'm not sure either the planned location or somewhere else would really help too much, but across the highway is a much larger physical divide.

[Wyku]

Originally Posted by Crisis

As for the pedestrian crossing, it looks like it's simply a walkway along the overpass. Given that it's an elevated overpass in the middle of the bald-ass prairie, it doesn't make for a very inviting walk - especially in the winter. As much as the parking lot is usually very full, Legends Centre in Warman is walkable from pretty much everywhere in town. The same won't be said of the Martensville rec centre.

The current (old) rink and Athletic Pavilion in Martensville are much better for walkability than this plan based on their locations.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by phone

Also -- the entire raison d'etre for Martensville is the personal automobile.

Yes, almost every adult in Matensville drives to work because that's what happens when you live in a suburb. However, every child under the age of 16 cannot drive and many over 16 may not have their license or access to a car. If the new rink has any free skate or stick and puck sessions, you can be that some kids from town will attempt to walk to the arena if they're not in school.

The footprint of the Legends Centre is 23k square metres. I don't know anything about Martensville's long-term plans, but the plot of vacant land directly to the east of the aquatic and community centres could easily fit a facility of the same size with room to spare. This location would be easily accessible by foot to any child in Martensville north of Main Street, and by bike to any child south of Main Street. It would also be centrally located for any further city expansion to the east.

[phone]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Yes, almost every adult in Matensville drives to work because that's what happens when you live in a suburb. However, every child under the age of 16 cannot drive and many over 16 may not have their license or access to a car. If the new rink has any free skate or stick and puck sessions, you can be that some kids from town will attempt to walk to the arena if they're not in school.

The footprint of the Legends Centre is 23k square metres. I don't know anything about Martensville's long-term plans, but the plot of vacant land directly to the east of the aquatic and community centres could easily fit a facility of the same size with room to spare. This location would be easily accessible by foot to any child in Martensville north of Main Street, and by bike to any child south of Main Street. It would also be centrally located for any further city expansion to the east.

I'm not defending it, I'm just pointing out that it may be foolish to set the bar higher than ankle-height for active transportation-focused urban planning in Martensville. Homeowners there are specifically buying into the car-centred suburban idea that you, with due justification, decry. I, for one, am not about to move to Martensville and petition their city council to change things.

[reddo]

The plan is for the new part of martensville to have over 10k people, maybe it'll be walkable for the west side residents? It's still very broken up and when they get to that many citizens they'll be needing even more rink space.

There's 700 acres on the west side of the highway but that's definitely going to take some time to get going.

Kind of reminds me of Stonebridge in Saskatoon, part of the city but also kind of separate. They at least had a lot of commercial going for them there. I doubt martensville will have that going for them anytime soon.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by reddo

The plan is for the new part of martensville to have over 10k people, maybe it'll be walkable for the west side residents? It's still very broken up and when they get to that many citizens they'll be needing even more rink space.

Presumably that will be the case, but... there's already 10K living east of the highway, and that number's only going to keep growing even if they try to expand West. It just seems like a terrible design plan. They haven't been able to attract any businesses to Lake Vista in five years, I don't see how they'll do any better across the highway.

[Wyku]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Presumably that will be the case, but... there's already 10K living east of the highway, and that number's only going to keep growing even if they try to expand West. It just seems like a terrible design plan. They haven't been able to attract any businesses to Lake Vista in five years, I don't see how they'll do any better across the highway.

Is there land zoned for commercial development around Lake Vista? I think the only businesses that aren't along the main drag adjacent to the highway are the car wash and spin club to the South and the Industrial area to the North. There are large sections of commercial land still undeveloped along the highway so I'm not sure if there are plans to push any commercial development to the other side of town.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Wyku

Is there land zoned for commercial development around Lake Vista? I think the only businesses that aren't along the main drag adjacent to the highway are the car wash and spin club to the South and the Industrial area to the North. There are large sections of commercial land still undeveloped along the highway so I'm not sure if there are plans to push any commercial development to the other side of town.

There is, yes. The empty stretch of land between Lake Vista and Main Street is intended to be commercial development. I believe Martensville even came out with proposals for the spot showing one major tenant and multiple minor ones, similar to the current setup around Canadian Tire. It would have been perfect for something like a Shoppers, but I doubt that's in the cards now that Warman has one.

Martensville cannot keep containing commercial development to Centennial Drive. It creates congestion, doubles down on the unappealing layout of the City, and honestly just does a disservice to the many people who now reside on the other side of town that cannot even go to a convenience store easily since they're all located on a single side of the City. I have no clue why they've failed so spectacularly at attracting business to Lake Vista, but it's going on six years with no development there. It's just embarrassing at this point, to be honest.

[Wyku]

That area would definitely be good for a strip mall-esque development with a convenience store and other small businesses with something as large as a Shoppers as a starting point like you say--perhaps something like the small business area around Shoppers in Hampton Village in Saskatoon. Looks like that's what's being suggested on a couple listings for that area--not sure how long they've been up for:
https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...ada/can2006695

https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...ada/can2009635

ETA: This one has a larger Lake Vista development map included: https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...ada/can2000494

Centennial in is awkward to navigate at times with the center turning lane, and trying to turn left from a parking lot on either side, which will only get worse as the City continues to grow and more businesses go in along the strip.

[phone]

The University has confirmed that Sask Polytech will be building its new campus on Preston Ave near Innovation Place. Not much in the way of details but obviously major project with huge implications for Saskatoon.