The 1990s - when the rent was cheap

[Chef]

It is crazy that '90s rent in Brooklyn and San Francisco isn't much less than rent here now. You can still rent a studio in Minneapolis for $900 a month and it is the second most expensive city in the Midwest.

[giallo]

That was my era. Most of those photos look like the late 90s, and that's when I entered my 20s. Hell, I almost looked for me in some of photographs as the fashion and apartment interiors matched exactly how me and friends dressed and lived.

I rented a 1 bedroom in downtown Vancouver (corner of Robson St. and Denman St.) for $600 a month. I'm sure it's quadruple that now.

Sigh.

[jd3189]

We need to go back to these rent prices. A box is still a box, no matter how well you dress it up. Yeah, landlords want a return on their investment. Well, people still need a place to stay and the vast majority of folks in SF, NY, LA, Miami, etc aren't paid enough to afford a rent that takes up most of their income. A balance has to be made, leaning more towards good tenants.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, landlords want a return on their investment. Well, people still need a place to stay and the vast majority of folks in SF, NY, LA, Miami, etc aren't paid enough to afford a rent that takes up most of their income. A balance has to be made, leaning more towards good tenants.

I suspect that a lot of new investors who bought rental homes and small multifamilies as prices spiked in 2020 and 2021 are going to lose money. Not only did they pay too much for their buildings, the price of repairs and maintenance grew wildly with the parts and labor shortage and it's not going to recede without a major recession of the sort we saw 14 years ago.

Last year I spent more repairing my rental property than I collected in gross rent. I lost well in excess of $10,000 on the thing in 2022.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Fast-forward to 2023 and the average one bedroom across all of Ottawa is about 1750 CAD. Since the one I am talking about was very central and spacious it would probably cost 2000 CAD a month today.

People who have jobs similar to my first gig (28,000 back then) are probably making about 45,000 CAD today.

Young people with good entry-level white collar positions are probably in the 65-75,000 CAD range here.

Draw your own conclusions.

So, rent up over 400% while incomes up by less than 50% over that time period? Sounds about right.

Much more recent, but I was making about $40k at my first job out of college in 2015, and was paying $1000/month for a basic 1-bedroom apartment in a typical 1960s slab tower in the inner city. I just looked up the management company's website, and comparable units in the building now go for $1600+ - which is well below average for Toronto, but still up 60% in 8 years. Meanwhile those entry level salaries haven't really budged. I'd maybe be making $45k if I were starting my career today (in other words, I'd be spending over 50% of my after-tax income on rent for the same apartment now).

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jd3189

We need to go back to these rent prices. A box is still a box, no matter how well you dress it up. Yeah, landlords want a return on their investment. Well, people still need a place to stay and the vast majority of folks in SF, NY, LA, Miami, etc aren't paid enough to afford a rent that takes up most of their income. A balance has to be made, leaning more towards good tenants.

This may be controversial but... It's healthy for urban neighborhoods to get expensive. That means the neighborhoods are growing and it is an indicator for developers to build housing. Increasing prices also help to distribute amenities and services by distributing high incomes over a wider area instead of having them concentrated in a small area of a city.

[badrunner]

A quick zillow search shows that you can still get a 1 bedroom apartment for around $1200 in some parts of the LA metro. You might even get some unexpected retro 90s vibes living in those neighborhoods.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This may be controversial but... It's healthy for urban neighborhoods to get expensive.

Healthy for whom?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This may be controversial but... It's healthy for urban neighborhoods to get expensive. That means the neighborhoods are growing and it is an indicator for developers to build housing. Increasing prices also help to distribute amenities and services by distributing high incomes over a wider area instead of having them concentrated in a small area of a city.

Of course it's healthy. Something is really messed up when housing in a major metropolitan core is cheap. Of course you don't want the other extreme, where rents are far out of line with incomes, but really cheap housing is a major warning sign, and really cheap core housing is a regionwide disaster.

[Docere]

This admittedly comes to mind for some reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZt-pOc3moc

[JManc]

Originally Posted by craigs

Healthy for whom?

Upper middle class and above of course! Weeds out the plebs who don't appreciate gourmet coffee and Patagonia pullovers.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JManc

Upper middle class and above of course! Weeds out the plebs who don't appreciate gourmet coffee and Patagonia pullovers.

If the regional core of a major metropolitan area isn't attractive to the upper middle class, your region has some very big problems.

[edale]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This may be controversial but... It's healthy for urban neighborhoods to get expensive. That means the neighborhoods are growing and it is an indicator for developers to build housing. Increasing prices also help to distribute amenities and services by distributing high incomes over a wider area instead of having them concentrated in a small area of a city.

Yeah, I think a lot of people from hot real estate markets don't really understand the flip side of this equation. Growing up in the (quasi) Rust Belt has really helped me understand what happens when demand drops off. People bemoan expensive neighborhoods, but you know what happens in cheap neighborhoods where no one wants to live? Abandonment, demolition, people losing money on their biggest assets (assuming they own), crime, and a spiral of decline. It's not pretty, and it's far more damaging than having expensive housing. Expensive housing is a symptom of a city where people want to live. Yes, things get problematic when housing costs get crazy high compared to wages, but that's a better problem than having a ton of cheap housing that no one wants to live in. The former results in long commutes and overcrowded housing. The latter results in urban prairies and bankrupt cities. Take your pick.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

If the regional core of a major metropolitan area isn't attractive to the upper middle class, your region has some very big problems.

There's being attractive to the upper middle class and then there's pricing everyone else out. Far too many cities are becoming unattainable for the middle class. That's NOT good.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Docere

This admittedly comes to mind for some reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZt-pOc3moc

Trying too hard, which goes against the whole 90s gen-xer ethos.

To keep the dream alive keep the 90s vibes as immaculate as it is effortless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NSjWWJKvQc

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Crawford

If the regional core of a major metropolitan area isn't attractive to the upper middle class, your region has some very big problems.

It's good to have a mix of incomes and housing costs. Places that are too uniformly wealthy tend to be lacking in cultural vitality and local flavor. You need a thriving middle class as well as blue collar workers and places for those people to live.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by giallo

That was my era. Most of those photos look like the late 90s, and that's when I entered my 20s. Hell, I almost looked for me in some of photographs as the fashion and apartment interiors matched exactly how me and friends dressed and lived.

I rented a 1 bedroom in downtown Vancouver (corner of Robson St. and Denman St.) for $600 a month. I'm sure it's quadruple that now.

Sigh.

That's why I liked the 15% tax the provincial liberals brought in years ago for offshore real estate purchasers to try and cool the Vancouver real estate market. Taxes are usually the last thing i'm a fan of but I liked that one

I pay extremely low rent but i've lived in the same place for many years and my place is 170sq/ft

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by edale

Yeah, I think a lot of people from hot real estate markets don't really understand the flip side of this equation.

...and the problem is that the issues present in the biggest cities have become the national discourse, even though those issues don't apply to 90% of the United States.

Where I live, Twitter folderol can now be heard coming from Twitter-addicted elected officials who don't understand that these issues barely exist in their own municipality. OR, and perhaps more likely, they're laying groundwork for higher office by applying top-down "progressive" housing policy to a place that won't benefit from it.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by craigs

Healthy for whom?

Anyone who depends on the stability of the city.

[McBane]

I remember when you could go to see a picture for a nickel!