Downtown Rebound: Baltimore attracts more tourists than other cities after COVID-19

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I've pointed this out in other threads, but Baltimore's population decline was fairly average between 1950 and 1980 for the Northeast Corridor. By 1980 Boston was in the worst shape of the Northeast Corridor cities, by far. But unlike the other cities, Baltimore has not been able to stop the population slide.

Decline from peak:
New York 11%
Baltimore 17%
Philadelphia 18%
Washington 21%
Boston 30%

No way was Boston in the worst shape, none the less 'by far'. Maybe by that stat in terms of pure population, but Boston was never in the worst shape economically. Boston probably saw the Household size decrease the fastest due to being the whitest city.

That also didn't really address what I said. Baltimore was a model in the 70s and 80s for urban renewal of it's waterfront. But as with all things what's new eventually becomes old and stale. It's not really a model for anything anymore. Maybe just a story of how not to become stagnate.

[Crawford]

I'm gonna disagree with both narratives. Baltimore was always the worst off of the big 5 NE corridor cities (population loss, by itself, isn't super informative) and Baltimore was never really gentrified. Yeah, the Inner Harbor was and is a pretty big regional deal, but Baltimore never had large-scale wealth growth or urban infill. It gets few immigrants, it doesn't have a ton of really high-end jobs outside of Hopkins, and a lot of the city is really high crime and (arguably) intimidating looking.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

No way was Boston in the worst shape, none the less 'by far'. Maybe by that stat in terms of pure population, but Boston was never in the worst shape economically. Boston probably saw the Household size decrease the fastest due to being the whitest city.

That also didn't really address what I said. Baltimore was a model in the 70s and 80s for urban renewal of it's waterfront. But as with all things what's new eventually becomes old and stale. It's not really a model for anything anymore. Maybe just a story of how not to become stagnate.

It's true and it wasn't due to household size decrease. It was for the same reason that decline was happening everywhere else: white flight. Boston was a decade ahead of Baltimore in the postwar decline race. OTOH, Baltimore was still receiving Black migration from the South which probably stabilized its population longer than it did in other cities.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm gonna disagree with both narratives. Baltimore was always the worst off of the big 5 NE corridor cities (population loss, by itself, isn't super informative) and Baltimore was never really gentrified. Yeah, the Inner Harbor was and is a pretty big regional deal, but Baltimore never had large-scale wealth growth or urban infill. It gets few immigrants, it doesn't have a ton of really high-end jobs outside of Hopkins, and a lot of the city is really high crime and (arguably) intimidating looking.

This hasn't been my experience with the multiple visits I had this year. Yes, there is a large bad/abandoned/sketchy area on the city's west side....but the vibe, architecture, and people are great. Especially the area around Fells Point.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

This hasn't been my experience with the multiple visits I had this year. Yes, there is a large bad/abandoned/sketchy area on the city's west side....but the vibe, architecture, and people are great. Especially the area around Fells Point.

I agree the vibe and architecture are great, but Fells Point is a few blocks, the West Side is half the city. Most of the East Side is really rough too. It's really only the city's central spine that is desirable, and I'm pretty sure that area has always been pretty good.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

By 1980 Boston was in the worst shape of the Northeast Corridor cities, by far.

That is not obviously true. Why do you claim that?

[Crawford]

Boston is very small geographically, and gentrified early. There were also huge urban renewal projects that took out a lot of density. A lot of the postwar population loss was likely due to these factors.

I mean, Manhattan had greater proportional population loss than Detroit in the immediate postwar decades (1940-1970). Anyone really believe that Detroit, overall, outperformed Manhattan during that period?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Boston is very small geographically, and gentrified early. There were also huge urban renewal projects that took out a lot of density. A lot of the postwar population loss was likely due to these factors.

I mean, Manhattan had greater proportional population loss than Detroit in the immediate postwar decades (1940-1970). Anyone really believe that Detroit, overall, outperformed Manhattan during that period?

Yes, I'm not sure why that's hard to believe.

[Crawford]

You believe Detroit, in the postwar decades, outperformed Manhattan, at the same time Manhattan became the undisputed global center and corporate colossus, and Detroit became a metaphor for urban decay? And simply due to less population loss? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You believe Detroit, in the postwar decades, outperformed Manhattan, at the same time Manhattan became the undisputed global center and corporate colossus, and Detroit became a metaphor for urban decay? And simply due to less population loss? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Between 1940 and 1970, yes. That's what we're talking about. Manhattan's resurgence mostly occurred from the 1970s onward.

[Crawford]

Manhattan added like 200 million square feet of office space from 1940-1970. Manhattan became the center of the world's biggest banks, the United Nations HQ and the greatest wealth center on the planet during that era. Park Avenue, Sixth Avenue, Third Avenue were completely transformed, Rockefeller Center was completed, Lincoln Center was built, etc. It was peak U.S. hegemony.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Manhattan added like 200 million square feet of office space from 1940-1970. Manhattan became the center of the world's biggest banks, the United Nations HQ and the greatest wealth center on the planet during that era.

Detroit also became the global manufacturing capital during that period.

[citywatch]

Not sure if trends over 40 yrs ago, in various urban areas, are going to slowly inch back in again or that the past will remain the past. The economy was more modest decades ago too, so that meant less money was flowing throughout the country. If it wasn't Covid in the past 3 yrs, it may be today's fissures showing up in banking & investment. So not sure if it will be a case of what goes around, comes around.


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[PhillyRising]

I haven't been to Baltimore in a few years since Covid, but I saw on YouTube recently that pretty much most of the retail buildings around the Inner Harbor that was part of the original redevelopment are mostly vacant now. The mall in the hotel across the street closed as well.

The Harbor East side was more my cup of tea...it was newer but it had residential.

Also, it was nice to walk the promenade that went around the whole Inner Harbor.

That being said, you only had to go 5-10 blocks west of it and it turned a bit sketchy. We made a mistake in staying in a hotel a few blocks west of the Inner Harbor 10 years ago and it was not really cool to be outside at night. The Marriott on the Inner Harbor is my favorite place to stay in Balamer.

[Notonfoodstamps]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

I haven't been to Baltimore in a few years since Covid, but I saw on YouTube recently that pretty much most of the retail buildings around the Inner Harbor that was part of the original redevelopment are mostly vacant now. The mall in the hotel across the street closed as well.

The Harbor East side was more my cup of tea...it was newer but it had residential.

Also, it was nice to walk the promenade that went around the whole Inner Harbor.

That being said, you only had to go 5-10 blocks west of it and it turned a bit sketchy. We made a mistake in staying in a hotel a few blocks west of the Inner Harbor 10 years ago and it was not really cool to be outside at night. The Marriott on the Inner Harbor is my favorite place to stay in Balamer.

The city is undergoing some major changes right now. Yes it’s still loosing population at an alarming clip *I take the figure with a grain of salt* but there’s is truck loads of investment going on right now

The Pavillions are going to get demo’d and replaced (by what) is anyone’s guess.

Harbor Point/East has 4 buildings U/C right now so it’s going to only get more upscale especially with more retail coming (Patagonia anyone)

West side is still rough but investment is definitely starting to pour in along Howard Street, MLK and around the CFG arena.

[Prahaboheme]

I take the 40 minute drive from DC to Baltimore and surrounding inlet / river/ bay towns regularly for the seafood, which is so superior in quality to anything found in DC for a decent price. That alone draws me in, then mix in the charming B-more neighborhoods and unique culture and it makes for a great 1-2 day trip from DC.

Plenty of venerable museums, historic sites, and just general points of interest. Agree with poster above that the city appears to be going through a bit of a boom --- renovations of rows in many inner harbor neighborhoods and on the north side of the city around JHU / Hampden / Charles Village.

If I were to live in the city, i'd likely chose Canton or Federal Hill.