PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by AnEmperorPenguin

Rent control destroys supply it doesn't create it, you can't get free money out of for profit landlords/developers by limiting how much they can charge. You avoid displacing people today and the trade off is that you end up with a worse housing crisis a few years later.

I don't deny rent control is a constraint on the market. My point in saying it would help is pointing out that fear of displacement and gentrification have already ended up creating dozens of even more damaging constraints. Practically the entire city has been down zoned and tons of red tape has been created in the past 30 years as city politicians attempt to appease current residents.

What this city currently does to avoid displacement is a huge impediment to development and its not even effective at avoiding displacement. Rent control and zoning reform passed together should both increase supply and insure existing residents aren't priced out.

[Sarge21]

Originally Posted by cardeza

a little revisionist history there I see. The Phillies NEVER wanted a downtown stadium and ultimately never put any serious effort into the idea.

I have it on good authority that David Montgomery always regretted not being able to build a stadium in Center City.

[PHLtoNYC]

A new retailer for Walnut Street (1712 Walnut Street), and replacing a bank!

Luxury online mattress brand Saatva to open brick-and-mortar location in Center City
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...nter-city.html

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I've heard this suggested before, but how do you imagine this happening? It seems to me that if they had "started with chinatown" the plans would have immediately been made public by opposition and done so in a very negative light.

what I am saying is they should have started by trying to build coalition with folks in Chinatown from the beginning- they didn't. They did a huge announcement and rolled out a schedule and then said "oh we plan to set up meeting with Chinatown soon". Stupid. Find out what Chinatown needed and then use that as a carrot and make the announcement in conjunction with an offer to build something or do something for them up front. There are numerous things they could have done to avoid this very predictable mess. I don't feel sorry for them.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Sarge21

I have it on good authority that David Montgomery always regretted not being able to build a stadium in Center City.

Sorry, Im only going with their public sentiments. MAny were disappointed when Phillies came out and endorsed the south philly location. But make no mistake- they were clear about their preference and it really didn't matter what Chinatown said or didnt say.

[Frontst17]

Personally I love going to games I go to as many as possible. But living a block or two from the stadium would suck I wouldn’t want to live there. It absolutely has to be done right. It’s a tight space and knowing how Adelmans business operates it would be no shock at all to have his dream arena be reduced to “what was feasible in the current market”. This could be awesome and a game changer to all the surrounding neighborhoods, or an arena plopped down in the same Market East. The latter option terrifies what is a vibrant but fragile community. And I don’t want Chinatown to change either honestly. And the idea Chinatown needs this? There’s like 8 developments going up in the neighborhood right now. Point being dont I trust Adelman and Harris not to be the entitled rich guys they are and fuck this up… remains to be seen there’s so much more that needs to be heard and seen

[BroadandMarket]

What are the 8 developments going up right now in Chinatown?

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

Personally I love going to games I go to as many as possible. But living a block or two from the stadium would suck I wouldn’t want to live there. It absolutely has to be done right. It’s a tight space and knowing how Adelmans business operates it would be no shock at all to have his dream arena be reduced to “what was feasible in the current market”. This could be awesome and a game changer to all the surrounding neighborhoods, or an arena plopped down in the same Market East. The latter option terrifies what is a vibrant but fragile community. And I don’t want Chinatown to change either honestly. And the idea Chinatown needs this? There’s like 8 developments going up in the neighborhood right now. Point being dont I trust Adelman and Harris not to be the entitled rich guys they are and fuck this up… remains to be seen there’s so much more that needs to be heard and seen

Good honest feedback! Most if not all of us are pro-development here but it is always good to get a full perspective about this and not steam-roll over a community. And, a lot is at stake for Chinatown here IMO. In general, history has repeated itself in many instances that don't bode well on many fronts. We can look to history as a guide. Chinatown is fighting for its existence and survival. This is not another office or residential bldg going up so the dynamics are completely different. No one is going to blink an eye for growth via more building in terms of office space or apartments if that was the case, which it is not. So, the fight will ensue.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

Personally I love going to games I go to as many as possible. But living a block or two from the stadium would suck I wouldn’t want to live there. It absolutely has to be done right. It’s a tight space and knowing how Adelmans business operates it would be no shock at all to have his dream arena be reduced to “what was feasible in the current market”. This could be awesome and a game changer to all the surrounding neighborhoods, or an arena plopped down in the same Market East. The latter option terrifies what is a vibrant but fragile community. And I don’t want Chinatown to change either honestly. And the idea Chinatown needs this? There’s like 8 developments going up in the neighborhood right now. Point being dont I trust Adelman and Harris not to be the entitled rich guys they are and fuck this up… remains to be seen there’s so much more that needs to be heard and seen

agreed. Their whole attitude is just a bit arrogant- basically they are saying since market east is struggling the obvious and only answer is their stadium and we should be thankful they are offering to build one- of course they don't get into how this will drive up valuation on sixers and make them tons of money. This whole "we really care about Philly and saving market east" shtick is a little phony.

[TempleGuy1000]

History tells us that if you are comparing Market East to the MCI center in DC's Chinatown, or the King Dome in Seattle, you have no clue what you are talking about. But continue to talk about make believe "vibrant communities". I will keep reading the stories about teens carrying machine guns at 13th and Ludlow and breaking the jaws of retail workers (just some fun happenings in the "vibrant community" in the last month). Market East only being partially functional is like a foot on the throat of dozens of communities fighting for increased tax revenue

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

agreed. Their whole attitude is just a bit arrogant- basically they are saying since market east is struggling the obvious and only answer is their stadium and we should be thankful they are offering to build one- of course they don't get into how this will drive up valuation on sixers and make them tons of money. This whole "we really care about Philly and saving market east" shtick is a little phony.

No. The Market East thing is just dressing on their actual motivation: which is they want to be downtown no matter what so figure it out.

And I concur with it.

The older I get the less patience I have with NIMBYs. Chinatown would have been opposed to this no matter whether the negotiations happened in advance or after.

Originally Posted by Frontst17

Personally I love going to games I go to as many as possible. But living a block or two from the stadium would suck I wouldn’t want to live there. It absolutely has to be done right.

It's an arena not a stadium. It's 18,000 people per event not 60,000. Big difference and semantics matter.

Originally Posted by Frontst17

The latter option terrifies what is a vibrant but fragile community.

What makes it "fragile"? Because they said so?

Philadelphia's Chinese community is healthier and more vibrant than it has ever been. Let's stop with the hyperbole.

The irony is of course, Chinatown has jumped 676 and inserts itself into development decisions and discussions even where it should have no say (Callowhill/Loft District). So I don't really have any patience for framing them as the victim or David.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

I would be interested to see the residential population trends in Chinatown. In my experience in real estate in Philly the Chinese buyers and renters are going to Mayfair and NE Philly in general, not Chinatown.

What happened in NYC a long time ago when most Chinese immigrants moved out of Chinatown to Queens and Brooklyn is happening here now.

Another thing is that the Chinatown RE community is pretty insular. The landlords and property owners here are Chinese. If rents go up due to the Arena or whatever else it would be Chinese Landlords raising the rents on Chinese tenants. Same if these properties get sold due to increasing values.

The activists in west philly and harrisburg don't actually know where the immigrant communities live. They just know where they have gone to eat Dim Sum before. Mayfair is the landing spot for most asians in Philadelphia and the Quality of Life is circling the toilet and it will kill the city's population as it declines.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

No. The Market East thing is just dressing on their actual motivation: which is they want to be downtown no matter what so figure it out.

And I concur with it.

The older I get the less patience I have with NIMBYs. Chinatown would have been opposed to this no matter whether the negotiations happened in advance or after.



It's an arena not a stadium. It's 18,000 people per event not 60,000. Big difference and semantics matter.



What makes it "fragile"? Because they said so?

Philadelphia's Chinese community is healthier and more vibrant than it has ever been. Let's stop with the hyperbole.

The irony is of course, Chinatown has jumped 676 and inserts itself into development decisions and discussions even where it should have no say (Callowhill/Loft District). So I don't really have any patience for framing them as the victim or David.

NOne of that will help make things easier for the sixers. But it seems like the sixers owners are in lockstep with your condescending views and its working out well so far. So we'll see if they double down or change course. Very few are begging them for the stadium- sorry arena.

[nemesisinphilly]

PhillyChitChat is reporting that Stephen Starr will take over the entire Barnes and Noble space and open a 3 Story 24,000 sqft Restaurant:

https://phillychitchat.com/2023/01/1...-notable-news/

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

PhillyChitChat is reporting that Stephen Starr will take over the entire Barnes and Noble space and open a 3 Story 24,000 sqft Restaurant:

https://phillychitchat.com/2023/01/1...-notable-news/

oh hell yeah. That's awesome.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by cardeza

agreed. Their whole attitude is just a bit arrogant- basically they are saying since market east is struggling the obvious and only answer is their stadium and we should be thankful they are offering to build one- of course they don't get into how this will drive up valuation on sixers and make them tons of money. This whole "we really care about Philly and saving market east" shtick is a little phony.

I mean it's not every day that a private developer proposes to spend over a BILLION dollars on a project in a flailing area of the city.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

PhillyChitChat is reporting that Stephen Starr will take over the entire Barnes and Noble space and open a 3 Story 24,000 sqft Restaurant:

https://phillychitchat.com/2023/01/1...-notable-news/

Holy cow. All hail Stephen Starr. As much as I love that B&N, I think I'll end up preferring them in the old Forever 21 spot. Something about them being close to that hidden park on Chestnut feels right. The restaurant will also really activate that area of Walnut by the park. It's already lively but 24 thousand feet of restaurant space will keep it active later into the evening.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

PhillyChitChat is reporting that Stephen Starr will take over the entire Barnes and Noble space and open a 3 Story 24,000 sqft Restaurant:

https://phillychitchat.com/2023/01/1...-notable-news/

I was kinda hoping for the Starbucks Reserve concept, but this will be really cool as well!

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I was kinda hoping for the Starbucks Reserve concept, but this will be really cool as well!

Same. At least we know that Walnut seems to be competitive right now. A Reserve might be a good fit for the old Ulta spot.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

History tells us that if you are comparing Market East to the MCI center in DC's Chinatown, or the King Dome in Seattle, you have no clue what you are talking about. But continue to talk about make believe "vibrant communities". I will keep reading the stories about teens carrying machine guns at 13th and Ludlow and breaking the jaws of retail workers (just some fun happenings in the "vibrant community" in the last month). Market East only being partially functional is like a foot on the throat of dozens of communities fighting for increased tax revenue

Lol