LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by inSaeculaSaeculorum

Those three lines being under construction is as much a reflection of LAs growing transit culture as it is a result of metro's short sightedness and compromises made over the years. A gold line extension to Azusa and Crenshaw corridor should be afterthoughts considering more glaring transit needs across the city. This is called ad hoc planning; doing what's politically expedient in lieu of long term vision. It's why LAs transportation is as disjointed as it is right now and why some lines just go nowhere (green line)

Brief segue-

This is not just an LA problem, but, is reflected throughout the US since the early 1970s. There are numerous examples: Dallas, Denver, Phoenix, the Twin Cities, St. Louis, and, Houston to name a few.

In each case political compromise forced horrible design flaws, whether in route chosen due to powerful property developers and NIMBYS; bad switching layout between branches, the lack of stations designed for express train run through, the lack of transfer points, no same seat running through downtowns, the equipment chosen, or a combination of these factors.

Mitigating factors include multijurisdictional involvement, insufficient federal funds*, and, the lack of action by transit entities on lessons learned by other countries when they built similar systems.

Perhaps after a horribly expensive learning curve that is reflected in the low ridership our new US light rail systems generate, the powers involved can both fix some of the errors cast in concrete and build better lines.

I have some hope, but, I would not bet much on any design or build out improvement.

*This increases design flaws forced by private interests with money. Nothing is free, and, while the bottom line may be less with private partners, the net affects on layout and design will be negative on transit system users.

[blackcat23]

A bill repealing the ban on light rail construction along the Orange Line ROW has passed the State Assembly, and has since moved on to the State Senate. Doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it will at least open up the possibility of a future conversion.

[202_Cyclist]

Speaking of the Orange line...

More than a fourth of Orange Line passengers ride for free, study finds
Metro officials are frustrated to learn fare evasion on the bus line could be about four times as common as it is systemwide.

By Laura J. Nelson
January 29, 2014
LA Times

"More than one-quarter of passengers on the Metro Orange Line may be riding for free, according to the most extensive study to date of fare evasion along the San Fernando Valley bus line.

Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority staffers wrote in a new report that, based on two days of checks along the transit line, about 25.9% of passengers either did not have a valid fare or had not paid correctly before boarding. Officials called the discovery frustrating and unexpected.

"I think we're all disappointed in the results," Metro chief executive Art Leahy said at a recent downtown meeting. The study suggests fare evasion along the Orange Line could be four times as high as the systemwide figure, which officials have traditionally said is about 6%..."

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-f...#axzz2sIBz1c5I

[Munchitup]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Speaking of the Orange line...

More than a fourth of Orange Line passengers ride for free, study finds
Metro officials are frustrated to learn fare evasion on the bus line could be about four times as common as it is systemwide.

By Laura J. Nelson
January 29, 2014
LA Times

"More than one-quarter of passengers on the Metro Orange Line may be riding for free, according to the most extensive study to date of fare evasion along the San Fernando Valley bus line.

Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority staffers wrote in a new report that, based on two days of checks along the transit line, about 25.9% of passengers either did not have a valid fare or had not paid correctly before boarding. Officials called the discovery frustrating and unexpected.

"I think we're all disappointed in the results," Metro chief executive Art Leahy said at a recent downtown meeting. The study suggests fare evasion along the Orange Line could be four times as high as the systemwide figure, which officials have traditionally said is about 6%..."

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-f...#axzz2sIBz1c5I

1 in 4 is a misleading statistic - included in that percentage is riders that have a day, week or month pass but simply did not "tap" in. They are not evading their fare, they just did not pay correctly (see bold).

Shame on the LA Times for this line that leads off the story:

"More than a fourth of Orange Line passengers ride for free..."

The reason people are not tapping in at these stations is that there are no turnstiles, just little "pillars" with a Tap reader which are often a bit too discreet. I am sure many people with passes just assume they do not need to Tap in.

[DJM19]

Originally Posted by Munchitup

1 in 4 is a misleading statistic - included in that percentage is riders that have a day, week or month pass but simply did not "tap" in. They are not evading their fare, they just did not pay correctly (see bold).

Shame on the LA Times for this line that leads off the story:

"More than a fourth of Orange Line passengers ride for free..."

The reason people are not tapping in at these stations is that there are no turnstiles, just little "pillars" with a Tap reader which are often a bit too discreet. I am sure many people with passes just assume they do not need to Tap in.

If you don't tap, you are riding free. Thats the assumption that has to be drawn because we cant know what percent of that 7% with valid fares is actually using daily or more passes and not just stored value. Not with the info we have been given anyway.

[Munchitup]

Originally Posted by DJM19

If you don't tap, you are riding free. Thats the assumption that has to be drawn because we cant know what percent of that 7% with valid fares is actually using daily or more passes and not just stored value. Not with the info we have been given anyway.

If you have say, a paid week-long pass, and don't "TAP" it, how are you riding for free? You are riding on your pass which is prepaid.

[inSaeculaSaeculorum]

If a LRT conversion happened on the orange line, would the line have to be shut down during the duration of the construction?

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by inSaeculaSaeculorum

If a LRT conversion happened on the orange line, would the line have to be shut down during the duration of the construction?

No, it would just run parallel on Victory or other streets.

[DJM19]

Originally Posted by inSaeculaSaeculorum

If a LRT conversion happened on the orange line, would the line have to be shut down during the duration of the construction?

Well, there are probably a number of ways it could be built. People always boast how buses are so flexible, its one of the main selling points...well, time to test that selling point. They They could build it in sections so a bus would be able to use the ROW but then get onto the street when it approaches the construction site. Eventually it will have less and less ROW to use.

I am no expert in rail construction, but I think the orange line could be relatively quickly converted. There are no real structures to demolish, no support systems to build. The bridges were built to support the weight of a light rail vehicle. If its possible they could just adhere rail to the concrete, build the overhead cable system, and be done with it. The stations would probably need to be upgraded so they are more robust. Compare the level of work with Expo line where they have to build all these bridges from scratch, tear down buildings, build all these walls, grade the land, put rail on the street. Most of that was done when they built the busway.

[DJM19]

Apparently Metro is considering (really, they have been for awhile) changing from the purely-color system to a Letter system on trains. They have this map prepped for public discussion:

Map

[Quixote]

^ I really prefer region-specific names like Wilshire, Exposition, Crenshaw, Foothill, etc.

Letters are better than colors though. The "Aqua Line"? WTF?

[Quixote]

The Valley needs:

1) Orange Line conversion to LRT
2) Red Line extension up Lankershim to Sylmar
3) Van Nuys corridor rail (preferably HRT) to Sylmar
4) More frequent Metrolink service

Boom. You're done.

[DJM19]

Originally Posted by Quixote

The Valley needs:

1) Orange Line conversion to LRT
2) Red Line extension up Lankershim to Sylmar
3) Van Nuys corridor rail (preferably HRT) to Sylmar
4) More frequent Metrolink service

Boom. You're done.

I think something up Reseda, and down ventura might be nice.

[Quixote]

^ I think Reseda is getting a rapid busway, per the terms of Measure R.

Ventura is a bit of a challenge because it doesn't warrant a subway (it's set against a hillside), yet it might be too busy for at-grade LRT.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by DJM19

Apparently Metro is considering (really, they have been for awhile) changing from the purely-color system to a Letter system on trains. They have this map prepped for public discussion:

Map

Originally Posted by Quixote

^ I really prefer region-specific names like Wilshire, Exposition, Crenshaw, Foothill, etc.

Letters are better than colors though. The "Aqua Line"? WTF?

Letters are boring. And nothing irritates me more than being compared to NYC so I'd rather go with place names like Quixote was mentioning: Cahuenga, Wilshire, Exposition, Harbor, Imperial, Crenshaw, . . . and hopefully down the line we could expect Sepulveda, Santa Monica, Orange, Sunset, and Pacific.

[blackcat23]

Names are preferable to letters/numbers. Better brand recognition, and much more tourist friendly.

Anyway, some of you may have noticed this already, but 7th Street/Metro Center recently added next train monitors on the light rail platform. When the Regional Connector opens, they'll need them for track 1 as well.

[inSaeculaSaeculorum]

^I'm loving those screens. The Normandie and Western stations have them but the rest of the red and purple lines still use the old one. Why is it taking so long to implement them? Isn't it just a matter of switching the display or do new screens have to be installed? I don't get it.

[sportbiker]

The signs are an improvement, but I'd like to see them continually sort by time. In the image, the content would be in order: CulvrCty, Willow, LongBch. Easier to determine that if I'm going to Willow, I need the second train.

[Wright Concept]

Originally Posted by DJM19

Well, there are probably a number of ways it could be built. People always boast how buses are so flexible, its one of the main selling points...well, time to test that selling point. They They could build it in sections so a bus would be able to use the ROW but then get onto the street when it approaches the construction site. Eventually it will have less and less ROW to use.

I am no expert in rail construction, but I think the orange line could be relatively quickly converted. There are no real structures to demolish, no support systems to build. The bridges were built to support the weight of a light rail vehicle. If its possible they could just adhere rail to the concrete, build the overhead cable system, and be done with it. The stations would probably need to be upgraded so they are more robust. Compare the level of work with Expo line where they have to build all these bridges from scratch, tear down buildings, build all these walls, grade the land, put rail on the street. Most of that was done when they built the busway.

Victory will probably be the easiest to run the an Orange Line Detour service while the conversion takes place. And if dedicated bus lanes are introduced as a stop gap measure as part of a "complete street implementation" then that would essentially mimic the travel pattern of the Orange Line from Canoga until roughly Woodman. From Woodman it could travel down that street until meeting up with Chandler and continue the detour there to North Hollywood.

[DJM19]

True, it does make sense to open up an alternative on another street that could use that service, even if its bus only lanes. Then reconstruct the orange line.